I don't know. I thought it was cool, I just thought I'd throw it out there in case I wanted to use it, so I could get some ideas.
Green Ronin created a source book for D&D Europe.
http://www.greenronin.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1001&Product_Code=grr1403e&Category_Code=3
Is this it?
I'm starting to create my setting and it takes place Circa 400AD. Unfortunately this time period seems a bit clouded to me. I'm having a hard time visualizing what the world (the Roman Empire) was like at the time. I guess I'll have to read The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization.;)
If you have some real time on your hands you might want to give Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire a shot. It's a headache to read (18th ca. historical prose) but it is still the standard by which every subsequent study of the late Roman period is judged. Read an abridged copy though. It'll touch on all the high points but you'll actually be able to finish it in a lifetime.
If you feel like delving into the madness that is primary documents, see if you can track down any of the letters written by Pope Leo I and Gregory I. They're the only two early popes who seemed to write much down and they offer a fascinating glimpse into the rise and spread of the early Roman church and the Christianizing of Europe. I know there are digitized (and translated) versions of Gregory's letters floating around teh intrawebs and he's actually quite readable
I was looking for information like that but was unsure as to where to look. I'm working on my B.A.
now, perhaps I can finds some of those primary document you were talking about.;) That would defiantly add flavor to the game. I thought this might be a good exercise for me since I am working on my history degree. Maybe I can find a 5th century style font too.
Question: You have a Latin style name; have you done a Roman campaign setting?
If you're a student, see if your school gives you access to Jstor, it's mostly journals, but there is some fantastic secondary stuff in it. Really cutting edge (if anything in history can be called that) scholarship.
If you're looking for documents on the early Catholic church you might want to see if you can get access to the archives of your local Catholic diocese. The various Catholic orders tend to be great record keepers, and they're pretty open about letting people go and poke around (some stuff), particularly if you say you're doing it for educational purposes. It's very unlikely they'd have the originals, but there is a group of Fransicans (I believe) who have been working on digitizing and translating a whole slew of early Church documents.
Another group you might want to look into is the Aryans. I don't mean the fictitious 'Ubermench' invented by the Nazi's, but rather the real religious sect (which included Issac Newton) that was active throughout Europe, until pretty well into the modern age. That'd give you an additional faction to play around with in addition to the Christian/Pagan divide. Arayanism was hugely popular among early converts, particularly in Eastern Europe. The key point is that they reject the concept of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. They see Christ as a mortal being, not God in mortal form which, if you actually start looking at how the Roman Church works was a huge issue.
Also don't overlook the divide between the Eastern and Western empires, and their development into separate churches. The Greek church was/is a fascinating entity in it's own right, and if you want to run a more political campaign... well it's called Byzantine Politics for a reason.
Anyhow, I'm through rambling now
. Let me know if there is any other advice I can offer.Oh, and speaking from personal experience, yes, developing a D&D campaign can be great practice for a history degree. Just make sure you don't forget to actually write the papers your prof's want because you're busy ripping off the textbooks for your game. That caused a half gradpoint drop for me one semester.
"Pendragon" is centered more on Arthurian Britain and is, IMO, less gritty than "Ars Magica", but worth a look. Might be pricier, though.
*That's Ars Magica, the Magic Arts, not Arse Magica, the Magic Butt! ;)
Encounter table Level 1
1d20
1-2 1d6 Black Bears
3-4 1d6 wild boars
5-6 1d3 human bandits on riding horses
7-8 1d3 human guards (as bandits) on warhorses
9-10 1d6 gray wolves
11 1 young green dragon
12 1d4 dragonborn soldiers (as bandits)
13 1d2 dwarf bolters (as bandits)
14 2d8 goblins (as bandits)
15 1d2 elf archers + 1d2 elf scouts + 1d2 gray wolves (patrolling there territory)
16 1d6 human bandits
17 1d2 gnolls (as bandits)
18 1d4 orc warriors (as bandits)
19 1 griffon (looking for food)
20 Unicorn skirmisher (defending its territory) or Level 2 Encounter table
Black Bear Level 2 ----- Standard
Medium natural beast -------- XP 125
Initiative +1 ----------------- Sensory Perception +4
HP 34; Bloodied 17
AC 16; Fortitude 16, Reflex 15, Will 13
Speed 8 squares; Saving Throws +2
Action Points 1
Claw (standard; at will)
Reach 1; +6 vs AC; 1d4+5 damage
Maul (standard; at will)
The black bear makes two claw attacks, if both claws hit the same target, the bear makes a secondary attack against the target +4 vs AC; the target is grabbed (until escape)
Ursine Crush (standard; at will)
the bear deals 2d4+5 damage to a grabbed creature. (no attack roll required)
Alignment unaligned ------- Languages _
Str 19 (+5) Dex 13 (+2) Wis 12 (+2)
Con 15 (+3) Int 2 (-3) Cha 6 (-1)
Boar level 2 ---------------- Standard
Medium natural beast --------------- xp 125
Initiative +1 --------- Sensory perception +2
HP 42; Bloodied 21
AC 17, Fortitude 17, Reflex 14, Will 13
Speed 8 squares
Gore (standard; at will)
+4 vs AC; 1d8+4 damage or 1d8+8 damage against prone target
Furious Charge
When a boar charges, its gore deals an extra 2 damage, pushes the target 1 square back, and knocks the target prone on a hit.
Alignment unaligned
Str 15 (+3) Dex 10 (+1) Wis 13 (+2)
Con 17 (+5) Int 2 (-3) Cha 4 (-2)
Track down old "Ars Magica"* books. The whole game was based on a fantasy Europe. It's old, but it should give you some good building blocks, and I don't think they cost that much.
"Pendragon" is centered more on Arthurian Britain and is, IMO, less gritty than "Ars Magica", but worth a look. Might be pricier, though.
You'd be much better advised to look up newer Ars Magica books. Or at least moderately new books.
Some of the White wolf books and a few of the Atlas Games books (Mythic Seas, Ultima Thule) are pretty weak with their history. On the other hand some of the fourth edition books specifically Ordo Noblis, Kabbalah, Blood and Sand, and Heirs to Merlin have incredible research.
Any fifth edition Ars Magica book you get is going to be golden. I think that for games not using Ars Magica your best bets might be Guardians of the Forrest, Lion and the Lilly, Ancient Magic, Art and Academe, and the Infernal and Divine Realms Books.
Ars isn't necessarily more gritty than Pendragon. The setting is a bit more historically accurate but the game is a great deal more high fantasy than Pendragon in scope.
Of course if you get some of the destructively edited White wolf third edition books, (Rome, Iberia, Mistridge, Pax Dei, Malfictum) you'll get some gritty garbage that may turn you away from the game all together. But enjoy the art (early WoC) and be aware that was only a short ugly period in the game's history.
Tom_Kalbfus Longer Dark Ages? Interesting idea. But I had learned that one of th biggest things to make the Dark Ages so awful was the Little Ice Age, which I believe we only came out of as recently as the beginning of the 19th century. Crops had failed miserably during that period, and I believe the start of the warming trend corresponded roughly with the Age of Enlightenment. I had read about it in reference to something about Valley Forge and the fate of the town of Sinapuxtent (sp?), Maryland, which is now a wetlands as the town was swallowed by rising ocean levels in something like 1806. (Kinda hard to blame THAT one on pollution, eh, EPA? Anyway, geologically speaking, the Little Ice Age ended but a blink of an eye ago and is most likely to source of the global warming stuff, IMHO, as the planet goes through natural warming and cooling cycles). Not knowing much about the Alexandrians, do you think such a thing would have held society back, in light of a reversal of crop failures, milder winters, etc.? Would the printing press, an invention so crucial to the rapid spread of information and the Enlightenment have been delayed, if not prevented, in its arrival on the scene? I'm curious. Please educate me!
I didn't know Ars Magica had newer editions. The access to game material in this town blows chunks!
A little pushing of my favorite game can't THAT villainous. But none the less I don't wish to derail the thread
The fifth edition page at atlas
http://www.atlas-games.com/arm5/index.php
The Fourth edition page at Atlas
http://www.atlas-games.com/arsmagica/index.php
The Ars message board
http://www.atlas-games.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4
The Ars Magica Cross linking page
http://redcap.org/
Now back to you previous more D&D-ish thread.
Thanks again for the links!
I didn't know Ars Magica had newer editions. The access to game material in this town blows chunks!
Tom_Kalbfus Longer Dark Ages? Interesting idea. But I had learned that one of th biggest things to make the Dark Ages so awful was the Little Ice Age, which I believe we only came out of as recently as the beginning of the 19th century. Crops had failed miserably during that period, and I believe the start of the warming trend corresponded roughly with the Age of Enlightenment. I had read about it in reference to something about Valley Forge and the fate of the town of Sinapuxtent (sp?), Maryland, which is now a wetlands as the town was swallowed by rising ocean levels in something like 1806. (Kinda hard to blame THAT one on pollution, eh, EPA? Anyway, geologically speaking, the Little Ice Age ended but a blink of an eye ago and is most likely to source of the global warming stuff, IMHO, as the planet goes through natural warming and cooling cycles). Not knowing much about the Alexandrians, do you think such a thing would have held society back, in light of a reversal of crop failures, milder winters, etc.? Would the printing press, an invention so crucial to the rapid spread of information and the Enlightenment have been delayed, if not prevented, in its arrival on the scene? I'm curious. Please educate me!
Actually, the little ice age began at the very tail end of the middle ages (around the 14th ca). That's why all the Norse settlements on Greenland, and many on Iceland were abandoned. During most of the Dark Ages/Middle ages both places were quite hospitable. Europe actually had a remarkably warm climate (a full 2 or 3 degrees warmer than today) for much of the middle ages. The Little Ice Age combined with a bunch of other factors to actually made the late middle ages arguably one of the worst periods of human history to live through.
You had crops failing due to the cold, leading to poor nutrition, which weakened immune systems. Then the Black Death started rampaging across Europe. The only reason the plague took such a toll was because of the weakened immune systems everyone had as a result of poor diet. The little ice age is even linked to the 100 years war by some historians. They argue that one of the major motivators behind it was the fact that French cropland was still producing very good output in comparison to the English. England needed the crop land almost as much as anything else.
If anything the 'dark ages' were a far more pleasant time to be a peasant than the late middle ages.
Apologies for the Wikipedia link, it's the best I could come up with on short notice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age
Note that the Roman Empire never really "fell." Diocletian tried to do some heavy duty restoration work by dividing it up into two Provinces (giving the weight to the Western Empire because that's where the front was, fighting against the Persians). His reforms were effective during his lifetime, but as soon as he died the complex system of junior and senior emperors (Caesars and Augusti I believe was the title system) ate itself.
Constantine and Maxentius didn't really get along, and Constantine went on a long plot to destroy the poor Emperor. He moved the capital and basically refused to supply the East with soldiers from Illyricum (the imperial training grounds as it were, the breadbasket of the Empire) Subsequently, the East had trouble defending itself from the massive influx of folks driven eastwards by the rumbling of the Khans in the orient.
Now we're talking population problems. You have hundreds of germans crossing the borders who want to settle in Roman territory. What do you do? Well, if you're the Roman Emperors you settle a bunch of them and then make them regional captains and the like and point at some other tribes and say "Go kill THOSE guys!"
However, that doesn't work for very long. Before you know it, there's no clear distinction between who was a coloniae and who was a foederatus. Gallic Romans married incoming Germans and the like, and the ranks are now swelling with foederatii. Senators and other large landholders start retreating to their estates in Italy and the provinces as the borders aren't really holding and start establishing small communities that are self sufficient. This will eventually lead to the encastellation of northern Italy and southern France.
Now, I'm starting to forget my classical history a bit (being a Medieval scholar and not a strict Classicist) but I believe the final blows to the Eastern Empire were dealt by the West; some kind of agreement between the Western Emperor and a german King; see, the West was ****** at the East about taxes and some other things, so they want to reclaim the Italian peninsula. Cept this german doesn't do what they want. So they send a general over to kick him out and he hides in a castle at Ravenna for a while. Eventually the East has other problems, and their forces disembark back for Greece.
What's left? A completely ruined system that no longer functions, an Italy violently contested by Lombards and the like, and a budding Merovignian monarchy in France based on the old system of chieftains and alliances of the pre-Roman germans.
Course, you also have to note that the Merovignian and Carolignian periods are NOTHING what the later monarchies would look like. Meritocracies almost, with posts (like dux or comte) almost NEVER being hereditary and family-granted.
My 10 cents there, I suppose. I've started to ramble.
I didn't know Ars Magica had newer editions. The access to game material in this town blows chunks!
Tom_Kalbfus Longer Dark Ages? Interesting idea. But I had learned that one of th biggest things to make the Dark Ages so awful was the Little Ice Age, which I believe we only came out of as recently as the beginning of the 19th century. Crops had failed miserably during that period, and I believe the start of the warming trend corresponded roughly with the Age of Enlightenment. I had read about it in reference to something about Valley Forge and the fate of the town of Sinapuxtent (sp?), Maryland, which is now a wetlands as the town was swallowed by rising ocean levels in something like 1806. (Kinda hard to blame THAT one on pollution, eh, EPA? Anyway, geologically speaking, the Little Ice Age ended but a blink of an eye ago and is most likely to source of the global warming stuff, IMHO, as the planet goes through natural warming and cooling cycles). Not knowing much about the Alexandrians, do you think such a thing would have held society back, in light of a reversal of crop failures, milder winters, etc.? Would the printing press, an invention so crucial to the rapid spread of information and the Enlightenment have been delayed, if not prevented, in its arrival on the scene? I'm curious. Please educate me!
In our timeline, Alexander the Great died as a young man while conquering India, his plans included the conquest of Babylon, whose modern location is Bagdad, The Alexandrian Empire lasted just a brief time, and crumbled shortly after the death of Alexander, because he did not have time to consolidate his conquests nor to establish a line of succession. In my proposed timeline Alexander did not die as a young man, he lived to a ripe old age of 70 instead, with this extra lifespan, he consolidated his holdings and conquered a much larger empire, an empire so vast that it dwarfed the conquests of the Mongols in the 13th centuries. Alexander's empire included most of Europe except for Scandinavia, and most of Asia including parts of China and the Asian steppes of lower Siberia. Much of North Africa was also incorporated in this Empire, and the Empire lasted six centuries after Alexander's Death. Because there was much trade and contact through this Empire, the Bubonic plague occured early and swept into this Empire during its six century span instead of during the Middle Ages as in our timeline. Because Magic existed, the various priest were able to help put an end to this scourge, but mostly it just burned itself out.
Babylon was renamed Alexandria and was made the capital of the Alexandrian Empire. Much of the old gods, the Zigerats, was swamped by greek culture, huge collumned temples to Athena, Zeus, and Aphodite were established, all of the classical greek gods were so honored, and because of the magical influence which began around 300 BC, gradually over time, those beliefs and superstitions began to take on a life of their own, and the gods of Olympus were born, as they grew in power from the accumulated beliefs of the Empire's populations, they began to work miracles, and then at around 300 AD, the gods grew so powerful, they began to grow jealous of each other. Ares began to challenge Zeus over the Rulership of the Pantheon, and thus the Godswar began with various different dieties taking sides between either Zeus and Ares. Aphrodite was caught in the middle, she would support neigther her "father" Zeus, or her "lover" Ares. The Godswar brought down civilization and the Alexandrian Empire although Zeus ultimately prevaled, he was seriously weaked by the conflict as were all the gods who participated, and a new dark ages began which was to last 1700 years. During those Dark ages, the goddess Gaea the Earthmother began to assert herself in the absense of leadership of Zeus, she began to create all sorts of monsters, creatures and races. Out of the forests she created elves Eldarin, out of the Earth she created Dwarves and Orcs. Another goddess Io created dragons and so forth. Another god Lucifer the lightbringer, one time god and herald of the dawn was cast down into the 9 Hells after he supported an uprising of titans and rebel angels, Lucifer became the god of Devils and takes on the role of Asmodeus in most standard D&D campaigns.
Despite the greek legends about Zeus being the father of the gods, he was actually created by an influx of magic into the worlds and coalesced into being alongside the other gods and the titans for that matter, so all the gods and titans are brothers and sisters in a matter of speaking, the circumstances of their birth has given them memories and beliefs of those legends in whose name they were created. Zeus therefore believes he is the father of all the gods and Ares believes he is the god of war, and they have powers comperable to that title. Their "memories" of the time before 300 BC are somewhat vague and fuzzy, as they are not actual memories, but for all intents and purposes for this world at least they are in fact the classical greek gods. No one knows the origins of this mysterious magical influx which changed history and everything else, but its effects are evident all over the world.
Because the Alexandrian Empire covered most of the know world, the three continents Europe, Asia, and Africa, when that Empire fell, their were no local traditions of organization. Barbarians travelled the well established roads of the former Alexandrian Empire and ravaged villages, and after a time the great cities of civilization fell into ruins, some of it blasted by the Godswar while other simply crumbling due to time and decay, some of these, especially the sewer systems, became dungeons filled with all sorts of monsters, other cities and buildings were buried by the accumulated debris of time and became underground warrens, filled with monsters and long forgotten and not so forgotten treasure. Even today 2008 AD, as a few points of light raise themselves from the darkeness of the 1700 year old Dark ages, many still believe in the old greek deities and they still have a life of their own, haveing regained much of their long lost powers, they are starting to reassert themselves again, but for now an uneasy peace prevails among them.
In the New World, its a different story, the Europeans and the Asians never came to its shores, leaving the Native Americans much to themselves, their histories continued for the 500 years after Christopher Columbus did not discover the New World. The Aztecs continued to build their empire, and their gods, whom they sacrificed human lives and hearts to, began to stir with an evil life of their own, and then in 1946, some visitors from another world began to show up, our own world. They settled in what in our world would be called southern California, they dubbed their new territory New Virginia, and they brought their technology with them, but kept it mostly to themselves, they traded primitive muskets to the surving Indians, most of whom died in the great plague that the visitors brought with them when they entered the world. There are some 3 million surviving Indians in the New World from an intitial population of over 40 million.
Finally some Europeans sailed across the Atlantic and discovered the New World in 1992, and they were met by Indians armed with muskets as opposed by Europeans with crossbows, swords and ballistas. The "New Virginians" kept to themselves mostly, they stayed in California, and did not bother the Indians outside their territory too much, part of it perhaps stemming from a great guilt after inadvertently causing the Great Plague and killing so many. Many of the Indians call them Deathwalkers and are openly hostile to them now, they've transferred much of that hostility to the European Explorers that sailed across the Atlantic, and those Europeans have found some problems gaining footholds on the Atlantic shore when faced with indians armed with muskets. Much of the Gunpowder technology has stayed in the New World - a closely guarded secret by the New Virginians and so far successfully kept.
The New Virginians patrol their territory in vintage World War II aircraft. (Use the stats for the Spitfire from D20 Past) their infantry is armed with M1 Garands (also from D20 Past) and drive around in Hummers and other SUVs brought over through the gate from their world. The New Virginians have kept their colony's existance and that of the gate a secret from most of the people of their world and they have lived here maintaining this secret for 62 years. All this modern stuff stays in the New World however and most in the Old World (Europe, Africa, and Asia don't even know about it) a few have encountered the muskets of the indians, but they don't know how to make gunpowder and neigther do the indians for that matter. The New Virginians like to maintain this monopoly and sell black poweder to the indians to keep them dependent and to discourage the Europeans from exploring the New World, however they do so anyway. The Europeans have yet to discover California however.
I find that the rules of D&D 4e have much in common with the D20 Modern game, but I'm keeping all that technology on the west coast of North America for the time being in the spirit of preserving the pureness of the D&D setting on other parts of the planet. Think of it as sort of a "Lost World" but of the future and not the Past. Another Kind of Lost World exists is South America and Australia, and those places are populated by dinosaurs.
Oakland, 1946 Ex-soldier John Rolfe, newly back from the Pacific, has made a fabulous discovery: a portal to an alternate America where Europeans have never set foot - and the only other human in sight are a band of very curious Indians. Able to return at will to the modern world, Rolfe summons the only people with whom he is willing to share his discovery: his war buddies. And he tells them to bring their families....
The Specific timeline here is
323 BC - Alexander does not die. Also under my setting this marks the time of the magic influx into the world.
280 BC - Alexander greatly expands his already enourmous empire, and at this time he dies in this campaign timeline, his son Alexander II (by the Bactrain-Persian Princess Roxanne) takes over the throne.
323 BC to 300 AD- The Alexandrian Empire expands to encompass the know World including China, Europe, and Northern Africa extending to the equatorial jungles. The belief system of the Greek Gods also expands throughout the known world at this time and over a couple centuries these beliefs actually manifest themselves into the form of actual dieties according to the Greek understanding of the term. These deities begin to take actions on their own account.
300 AD This is the time of the Great Godswar that destroys civilization and the Alexandrian Empire, the world descends into a Dark age that last until about 1900 AD on our timeline.
1946 AD John Rolfe discovers the gate leading to this world from ours and he keeps it a secret letting only his closest friends and families in on it.
2008 AD This is the current date. John Rolfe has kept his kingdom a secret from the Modern World for 62 years, it now has a population of 150,000 modern humans. The immigrants come from all walks of life, many of them are trying to hide or escape from authorities, among them are infamous Nazi war criminals, Ex-Soviet KGB agents, white persons fleeing South Africa after the fall of Aparteid. John Rolfe is a conservative World War II vet from Virginia, his grandfather fought in the Civil War for the South, and he has inherited some of his notions about race and society from his grandfather, partly for such this reason he has kept the existance of his colony a secret, as he didn't want the US government moving into his territory and claiming it for themselves, thus causing John Rolfe to lose control of it. John Rolfe is effectively the "King" of this Realm as he controls the gate and all the modern luxuries that flow through it. access to the gate is of course restricted and guarded by his friends armed with machine guns and so forth. New coming through the gate from the modern world is heavily censored and is usually one-way. The US government and authorities have no idea of what's going on in his basement in Oakland, California and John Rolfe endeavors to keep it that way for as long as he can.
There is magic in this world of course and Monsters. The natives aren't entirely helpless as the New Virginians have practically no magical apptitude, but the natives were taken by suprise and the spread of "White Man's Diseases" greatly depopulated the New World of its native peoples so much so that its native practitioners of magic weren't able to react in time. John Rolfe has seized a large swath of southern california by this, and doesn't seek to press his luck, knowing about his potential disadvantage with magic. The monsters and various dragons have filled many nitches vacated by the Indians, and they are quite happy about this, the moderns trouble them somewhat but they mostly keep to themselves.