Kalarel+ - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 divinedragoonkain Sep 01, 2009 10:39:12	Hello, everyone. First off, let me say that I THINK this is the right forum for this; let me know if not. Second, if you're in my Athkinen campaign, this is NOT the topic for you. Shoo, before you spoil yourself. You've been warned. Here's the deal - I'm running Keep on the Shadowfell for my players, but there's seven of them. Honestly, I think they'd slaughter Kalarel at this point, so I'd like to improve the final battle of the module, and I need your opinions. Here are my ideas so far: Kalarel himself changes only a little - he gets a little Rule of Cool applied to him. First off, he gets a slightly modified form of the Blazing Skeleton Claw graft from Open Grave - mostly for the appearance and beign able to cause fire damage (save ends) at range, so the idols of Bahamut get a bit more varied use. His weapon, the Rod of Ruin, becomes the Gauntlet of Ruin - a long, liquid metal glove that initially covers his skeletal arm, but shifts into a scythe with a skull on the bottom at the start of the fight as a Dynamic Weapon. I mainly want him to appear intimidating - not just another necromancer that needs to be put down. To this end, perhaps I could also add multi-attacks. Next, I'd like to establish foreshadowing for later in the campaign - the Abyss is connected extensively to the Elemental Chaos, and Orcus was a primordial himself. I want Kalarel to have two further lackeys - a Death Shard (MM2), and a Genasi Skyspy (also MM2). The Skyspy is actually Kalarel's daughter - further emphasizing the ties Orcus has to the elemental chaos - and hopefully to stir up a plot point with the party's Firesoul Genasi, who struggles with his wild, inner nature. Just don't ask who her mother is. The Skyspy, instead of using two shortswords, uses one shortsword and an improved Fan of the Four Winds, sharpened to act like a shortsword in melee combat, and able to repeat the initial attack as a sustain minor, rather than make it hard for the target to approach her as a sustain standard. She uses this fan to push enemies towards the Thing in the Portal, who uses its Grasping Claws to drag them further in. The Deathshard is as Deathshards do; a mobile weapon of raw elemental energy that Kalarel uses. This only adds 750 XP to the encounter, and I'd like for it to be a full level 8 encounter for seven level 3 PCs; I'm left with 400 XP. Alternatively, I could make it a level 7 encounter, throw in the Clay Scout, and call it done, but... eh. How should I spend that leftover experience? And how can I further improve this encounter - in terms of providing both a heroic, narrative quality, and a mechanical, challenging quality? And how are my couple of ideas so far? Thanks!
#2 slobo777a Sep 01, 2009 12:25:37	I recently played KotS, we had a party of five, and are reasonably experienced players. We'd got used to 4E by the time we met Kalarel. We're not power-gamers, so were not especially optimised. We had a tough fight, and won by the skin of our teeth. At one stage we were reduced to running round the edge of map trying to get healing potions to the characters most able to harm Kalarel (the Ranger and Rogue). It is IMO a tough fight in general, and there are several posts referencing TPKs for that encounter on these forums. For seven PCs, yes you probably do need to boost the bad guys a little. Not sure you need two fully-fledged NPCs though - the ideas are fine, but I think you'll add an ability- and information- overload. Stick a second wight (?) near the pit, add some more skeletons in the middle, perhaps give Kalarel a secondary or double-attack so he can engage more PCs at once, and you're done I think. The NPC and plot ideas are cool though . . . perhaps save 'em up for another encounter where all those ideas get to shine through? Edit #1: Another idea - upgrade the regeneration that Kalarel gets for standing in the ritual circle. It's a key tactic that the players need to prevent him using, but a 7-player party can simply no-brainer cut through the regen. Edit #2: I'm not telling you to not do what you want. If you like your idea, go for it! . . . but speaking personally as a player, I already found the encounter had enough going on tactics-wise and plot-wise. More types of creature, more NPCs, and more powers flying around would not have improved it for me.
#3 divinedragoonkain Sep 01, 2009 12:51:10	I do value your input as a player, actually, especially as a player. Your experience probably does say a bit about how difficult that fight is. The party's pretty balanced, though, and I think that could really help. Here's their makeup, if it matters: Human Charisma Paladin Deva Swordmage Firesoul Genasi Warlord Gnoll Battle Cleric of Moradin Goliath Rageblood Barbarian Human TWF Ranger Revenant Half Orc Invoker of the Raven Queen It's an odd bunch, but they work rather well together. I may set up a test encounter that I run completely by myself, to see how easy it would be for them to win... Either way, thanks for your input!
#4 undrave Sep 01, 2009 13:18:14	Are you using the updated KotS or the original module??
#5 divinedragoonkain Sep 01, 2009 14:06:45	Updated.
#6 garner_adam Sep 02, 2009 8:16:54	If you threw a single artillerist or hazard that consistently attacked reflex defense during that fight I'm certain your party make up would find it challenging. Also "summoning" or minions that appear during the fight at consistent intervals (maybe kalarel has a summoning book he uses a few times during the fight) can increase the difficulty with out leading to TPK because you can always turn off the faucet of incoming minions. Plus it gives your controller a chance to do their thing in the big boss fight.
#7 divinedragoonkain Sep 02, 2009 11:45:33	If you threw a single artillerist or hazard that consistently attacked reflex defense during that fight I'm certain your party make up would find it challenging. Also "summoning" or minions that appear during the fight at consistent intervals (maybe kalarel has a summoning book he uses a few times during the fight) can increase the difficulty with out leading to TPK because you can always turn off the faucet of incoming minions. Plus it gives your controller a chance to do their thing in the big boss fight. That's essentially what the Death Shard is for. The Genasi herself is mostly a story element, meant to tie into things later (and provide a sense of urgency at she pushes combatants towards the portal) - she'll attempt to flee when she becomes bloodied. As for minion spam... eh. The Wight can bring back minions on his own, and the encounter starts with eight, already. I'll consider it, though. Thanks, again!
#8 undrave Sep 03, 2009 12:45:58	Shift the summoning from the Wight to something else, maybe include a mini-skill challenge to turn off the minion faucet, it would make things more dynamic. If they succeed the flow of minions stops, if they fail the source of summoning spits out a more challenging monster but then stops.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

divinedragoonkain

Sep 01, 2009 10:39:12

Hello, everyone. First off, let me say that I THINK this is the right forum for this; let me know if not.

Second, if you're in my Athkinen campaign, this is NOT the topic for you. Shoo, before you spoil yourself. You've been warned.

Here's the deal - I'm running Keep on the Shadowfell for my players, but there's seven of them. Honestly, I think they'd slaughter Kalarel at this point, so I'd like to improve the final battle of the module, and I need your opinions.

Here are my ideas so far:

Kalarel himself changes only a little - he gets a little Rule of Cool applied to him. First off, he gets a slightly modified form of the Blazing Skeleton Claw graft from Open Grave - mostly for the appearance and beign able to cause fire damage (save ends) at range, so the idols of Bahamut get a bit more varied use. His weapon, the Rod of Ruin, becomes the Gauntlet of Ruin - a long, liquid metal glove that initially covers his skeletal arm, but shifts into a scythe with a skull on the bottom at the start of the fight as a Dynamic Weapon. I mainly want him to appear intimidating - not just another necromancer that needs to be put down. To this end, perhaps I could also add multi-attacks.

Next, I'd like to establish foreshadowing for later in the campaign - the Abyss is connected extensively to the Elemental Chaos, and Orcus was a primordial himself. I want Kalarel to have two further lackeys - a Death Shard (MM2), and a Genasi Skyspy (also MM2). The Skyspy is actually Kalarel's daughter - further emphasizing the ties Orcus has to the elemental chaos - and hopefully to stir up a plot point with the party's Firesoul Genasi, who struggles with his wild, inner nature. Just don't ask who her mother is. The Skyspy, instead of using two shortswords, uses one shortsword and an improved Fan of the Four Winds, sharpened to act like a shortsword in melee combat, and able to repeat the initial attack as a sustain minor, rather than make it hard for the target to approach her as a sustain standard. She uses this fan to push enemies towards the Thing in the Portal, who uses its Grasping Claws to drag them further in.

The Deathshard is as Deathshards do; a mobile weapon of raw elemental energy that Kalarel uses.

This only adds 750 XP to the encounter, and I'd like for it to be a full level 8 encounter for seven level 3 PCs; I'm left with 400 XP. Alternatively, I could make it a level 7 encounter, throw in the Clay Scout, and call it done, but... eh.

How should I spend that leftover experience? And how can I further improve this encounter - in terms of providing both a heroic, narrative quality, and a mechanical, challenging quality? And how are my couple of ideas so far?

Thanks!

slobo777a

Sep 01, 2009 12:25:37

I recently played KotS, we had a party of five, and are reasonably experienced players. We'd got used to 4E by the time we met Kalarel. We're not power-gamers, so were not especially optimised.

We had a tough fight, and won by the skin of our teeth. At one stage we were reduced to running round the edge of map trying to get healing potions to the characters most able to harm Kalarel (the Ranger and Rogue). It is IMO a tough fight in general, and there are several posts referencing TPKs for that encounter on these forums.

For seven PCs, yes you probably do need to boost the bad guys a little. Not sure you need two fully-fledged NPCs though - the ideas are fine, but I think you'll add an ability- and information- overload. Stick a second wight (?) near the pit, add some more skeletons in the middle, perhaps give Kalarel a secondary or double-attack so he can engage more PCs at once, and you're done I think.

The NPC and plot ideas are cool though . . . perhaps save 'em up for another encounter where all those ideas get to shine through?

Edit #1: Another idea - upgrade the regeneration that Kalarel gets for standing in the ritual circle. It's a key tactic that the players need to prevent him using, but a 7-player party can simply no-brainer cut through the regen.

Edit #2: I'm not telling you to not do what you want. If you like your idea, go for it! . . . but speaking personally as a player, I already found the encounter had enough going on tactics-wise and plot-wise. More types of creature, more NPCs, and more powers flying around would not have improved it for me.

divinedragoonkain

Sep 01, 2009 12:51:10

I do value your input as a player, actually, especially as a player. Your experience probably does say a bit about how difficult that fight is.

The party's pretty balanced, though, and I think that could really help.

Here's their makeup, if it matters:

Human Charisma Paladin

Deva Swordmage

Firesoul Genasi Warlord

Gnoll Battle Cleric of Moradin

Goliath Rageblood Barbarian

Human TWF Ranger

Revenant Half Orc Invoker of the Raven Queen

It's an odd bunch, but they work rather well together. I may set up a test encounter that I run completely by myself, to see how easy it would be for them to win...

Either way, thanks for your input!

undrave

Sep 01, 2009 13:18:14

Are you using the updated KotS or the original module??

divinedragoonkain

Sep 01, 2009 14:06:45

Updated.

garner_adam

Sep 02, 2009 8:16:54

If you threw a single artillerist or hazard that consistently attacked reflex defense during that fight I'm certain your party make up would find it challenging.

Also "summoning" or minions that appear during the fight at consistent intervals (maybe kalarel has a summoning book he uses a few times during the fight) can increase the difficulty with out leading to TPK because you can always turn off the faucet of incoming minions. Plus it gives your controller a chance to do their thing in the big boss fight.

divinedragoonkain

Sep 02, 2009 11:45:33

If you threw a single artillerist or hazard that consistently attacked reflex defense during that fight I'm certain your party make up would find it challenging.

Also "summoning" or minions that appear during the fight at consistent intervals (maybe kalarel has a summoning book he uses a few times during the fight) can increase the difficulty with out leading to TPK because you can always turn off the faucet of incoming minions. Plus it gives your controller a chance to do their thing in the big boss fight.

That's essentially what the Death Shard is for. The Genasi herself is mostly a story element, meant to tie into things later (and provide a sense of urgency at she pushes combatants towards the portal) - she'll attempt to flee when she becomes bloodied.

As for minion spam... eh. The Wight can bring back minions on his own, and the encounter starts with eight, already. I'll consider it, though.

Thanks, again!

undrave

Sep 03, 2009 12:45:58

Shift the summoning from the Wight to something else, maybe include a mini-skill challenge to turn off the minion faucet, it would make things more dynamic. If they succeed the flow of minions stops, if they fail the source of summoning spits out a more challenging monster but then stops.