Herein, we shall recreate the Keep on the Borderlands adventure using the new D&D4e rules.
The rules:
1. We can't copy the adventure word for word from the original (or the Silver Anniversary) work. This has to be our own work. While we won't be selling this, I would still like for it to be our own.
2. Changes to the original encounters are encouraged. I would like to keep players of olde on their toes as well as bring new players in with this.
3. Feel free to suggest entire new additions to the cave complex. We can review each by its merits and how much it changes the flavor of the original adventure.
4. All maps will be remade by us. I am using Core Rules to make the maps, but I would love it if someone had the ability to make battle maps to print up for DMs.
An Idea:
When writing encounters, I would like to have options available for DMs. Since it is so easy to create a standard encounter, now, then maybe for some of our rooms, we can give different variations of encounters to choose from. Example:
Kobolds
Kobold Minions (20)
Variant
Kobold Minions (10)
Kobold Archers (2)
Or something like this. Of course, that could just bloat the page count and be a genuinely insane notion.
http://kotb.wikispaces.com/
From a previous thread, there seems to be a lot of interest in doing up a KotB conversion for 4e.
I am using Core Rules to make the maps. I'll post more later.
I will be collecting various information here: http://kotbc.blogspot.com/
Great, great idea. I will definitely be contributing to this effort.
Some things to consider: What level range are we shooting for? 1-3 like the original? Or should we expand that a bit, seeing as how the game goes from 1-30 now? maybe something like 2-6? Or have different areas of the Caves vary more widely in difficulty?
I don't have my copy of the original on hand, but I remember the caves having sections of kobolds, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, ogres, and one minotaur. Some of that seems a bit rough for a party of levels 1-3, even the orcs if we want to use Bloodragers and the like. Any ideas about that?
Orcs from the preview look tough but they might be able to reduce their level a bit. A minataur on the other hand wouldn't be able to be lowered in level. Once you have rough blocks like that and can assign them a xp range or even give the level of mobs then you can see what level range this conversion would work for. Due to the changing of mobs in 4e I think it might go a little above 1-3.
I wish I had the old module still, I would work with you guys, and try and speed things up but alas that module disapeared...
by way of a old gaming buddy.I would look for the information sections in there and make some non-combat challenges to gleem info.
I would start out by breaking down the old adventure into chunck based off the encounters you would see, and then seeing what 4e level the mobs are going to be.
Orcs from the preview look tough but they might be able to reduce their level a bit. A minataur on the other hand wouldn't be able to be lowered in level. Once you have rough blocks like that and can assign them a xp range or even give the level of mobs then you can see what level range this conversion would work for. Due to the changing of mobs in 4e I think it might go a little above 1-3.
I wish I had the old module still, I would work with you guys, and try and speed things up but alas that module disapeared...
I would look for the information sections in there and make some non-combat challenges to gleem info.
Out of curiosity, why do you say a minotaur couldn't be reduced in level? The leveling/deleving rules should work just as well for him.
Now, as it stands he's sort of meant to be a big boss monster in the module, so depending on how tough minotaurs are in 4e we may have to level him UP, or add a template or something to make him a Solo challenge.
With regards to not having the old module...isn't the module far, far out of print? I'm not sure how the rules work when it comes to long-unavailable modules. Is there any point where it becomes "abandonware" like software does, and it's legal to pass it around in digital form? If not then forget I asked.
Some things to consider: What level range are we shooting for? 1-3 like the original? Or should we expand that a bit, seeing as how the game goes from 1-30 now? maybe something like 2-6? Or have different areas of the Caves vary more widely in difficulty?
Yeah, I have been thinking on this, too. My vote is we expand the levels to something like 1-6. It will give us a lot of wiggle room in encounter design.
Just wondering how this collaboration will work using Blogspot?
haha. Not sure yet. I am trying to find a place to throw all of the combined information we come up with. I am open to ideas. A wiki would be ideal, I think, but I have no experience with the setup and no server space on which to bolt it.
Yeah, I have been thinking on this, too. My vote is we expand the levels to something like 1-6. It will give us a lot of wiggle room in encounter design.
haha. Not sure yet. I am trying to find a place to throw all of the combined information we come up with. I am open to ideas. A wiki would be ideal, I think, but I have no experience with the setup and no server space on which to bolt it.
I am open to ideas.
I have experience with wiki setup, at least something as simple as what would be used for this, but I also have nowhere on which to host it.
Just created a wiki on a free online tool. It is not great but it is a start. PM me for details!
Out of curiosity, why do you say a minotaur couldn't be reduced in level? The leveling/deleving rules should work just as well for him.
Minion-taurs!
I might be able to provide a place to host but I don't have any experience setting up a wiki. However, I want to give it a shot. Can someone point me in a good direction?
Just created a wiki on a free online tool. It is not great but it is a start. PM me for details!
Most of my experience is with MediaWiki, which is the same wiki platform that Wikipedia runs on. It's free, has pretty good support and documentation, and sets up relatively painlessly, assuming your system is compatible (PHP5, MySQL, etc) and you have shell access. You can find it at www.mediawiki.com.
Let me know if you have any questions.
My goal: I work for a publisher that has print-on-demand services, so I have access to the personnel and equipment at a discounted rate. When this is all done, we will have a hard copy product to show off to our friends that no one will be able to get their hands on - keeping in mind that we can do this only for personal use. If our little project works out, maybe we can do something original to sell. But that's down the road; let's see how this turns out.
Wow, that sounds awesome. I don't care about having something to sell, but actually winding up with a decent-looking physical copy of this would be really neat.
It would definitely be fun to get this together! I guess a lot of old-schoolers all thought about the same thing when first hearing about 4E.
Out of curiosity, why do you say a minotaur couldn't be reduced in level? The leveling/deleving rules should work just as well for him.
Now, as it stands he's sort of meant to be a big boss monster in the module, so depending on how tough minotaurs are in 4e we may have to level him UP, or add a template or something to make him a Solo challenge.
With regards to not having the old module...isn't the module far, far out of print? I'm not sure how the rules work when it comes to long-unavailable modules. Is there any point where it becomes "abandonware" like software does, and it's legal to pass it around in digital form? If not then forget I asked.
printed material passed around in digital form, even if the original is out of print, does not follow the abandonware concept. which is unfortunate because there is such a great deal of material that is unavailable. this happened on another forum in which they were making available digital scans of out of print rpg material and the forum owners got a lovely letter from a lawyer that politely asked them to stop.
i had to buy a digital copy of keep on the borderlands (mine got lost in a move) when people started discussing converting it and i wanted to follow along in the conversion process (maybe help where i can). it'll help when i go to work converting against the giants for my group.
Hey, I'd love to help out, too, but my module is in a box back home on Maui (I'm living in Japan now). Yes, I actually still have the module, although the staples have rusted a bit. I saw it when I was cleaning up my things during the Christmas break. Hopefully I can get my mother to bring it to our family reunion next month and get to working on it with the new core books.
It would definitely be fun to get this together! I guess a lot of old-schoolers all thought about the same thing when first hearing about 4E.
for some reason, the new edition reminds me of the way the older editions felt and i started looking at older modules for conversion. naturally my sights were turned to modules i enjoyed when i first started playing the game.
I'll have to hit up my art resources and see if we can make it pretty. For those of us who would like to break into the RPG industry, this might not be a bad little resume bullet/portfolio piece to bring to an interview.
For the finished product, just a thought thrown out to ya, I was thinking of making it a boxed set, expanded into its own "campaign setting" like those of old. A tentative name: The Keep. Inside, a few different books (The Light, The Dark, Campaign Guide), perfect bound for that old school feel, a folder with pre-generated characters, a poster map, and a folder with several battle maps.
I'll have to hit up my art resources and see if we can make it pretty. For those of us who would like to break into the RPG industry, this might not be a bad little resume bullet/portfolio piece to bring to an interview.
This just keeps sounding more awesome.
With regards to not having the old module...isn't the module far, far out of print? I'm not sure how the rules work when it comes to long-unavailable modules. Is there any point where it becomes "abandonware" like software does, and it's legal to pass it around in digital form? If not then forget I asked.
You can buy the PDF legitimately from here for $5:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=17158&it=1
On that note, I think I would be able to help out in the editing and proofreading department. I used to be the final proofreader for a small educational publishing company, so I have some experience in that department. I'm pretty confident that we could put out something very professional.
I've already read through the whole Keep on the Shadowfell adventure and found some actual errors (not talking about character powers or ability score bonuses or other things people have been discussing on the boards) such as missing equipment descriptions for some of the enemies (I know, that's really easy stuff to figure out, but just the fact that they weren't printed...) and missing words in some of the text.
Anyway, I feel that my best contribution to this project would be proofreading. How does that sound, Deadwor1d?
Anyway, I feel that my best contribution to this project would be proofreading. How does that sound, Deadwor1d?
Sounds good to me. I know that while I can proof, I don't trust proofing my own writing. The best thing an upstart group can do for their product is put another set of eyes on it before it goes to print. The Primal Order is proof enough of that.
Quick question: do we have to ask anyone for permission to use the same name for this project? I was just wondering, since I'm pretty sure we're planning to produce a printed copy of the work, even though it will be for our own personal use. Does anyone know who has the rights to the module?
Another note: I know I said I would be posting an outline on the wiki on Sunday, but Keep on the Shadowfell came out, here, so I will probably be running that for a good portion of Sunday. If so, I'll get the outline done during the week.
Instead of the Keep make the base of operations a lumbermill town that is being threatened by various monsters. The Cult of Orcus Members could be used in the encounters representing the undead being controlled by the evil cleric in the Keep on the Borderlands.
You could call the town, Mill Town, Milton, Borderton, Threshold, etc.
Just some random musings of someone who lost 6 hours yesterday, took a 4 hour nap and can't go to sleep now.
Update on the publishing side of things: a boxed set may run me a ton of money just for the prototype. To the tune of a couple thousand dollars. I will investigate further to see if my employee status will drop that part of the cost. If not, then we may be stuck with just books.
I will work on the outline, today, while I am at work and try to have it posted within the next few days.
As an aside, the KotS session on Sunday went very well. This game plays like a dream and I am not at all dissatisfied with selling most of my 3e books right out of the gate.
Update on the publishing side of things: a boxed set may run me a ton of money just for the prototype. To the tune of a couple thousand dollars. I will investigate further to see if my employee status will drop that part of the cost. If not, then we may be stuck with just books.
I will work on the outline, today, while I am at work and try to have it posted within the next few days.
If the box set is that much more expensive, just books will work just fine, I think.
By the way, I'll start editing our pages soon if that's OK with everyone.
Besides, the KotB module just SCREAMS "points of light". I've been thinking that since I first read about the new points of light mentality.
It'll take me longer to get them since I pre-ordered from amazon.com and have to get them shipped to me in Japan.
Ture enough... I pre-ordered mine from a FLGS and have already paid for them so I just have to go and pick them up at 10 AM CST on the 6th!
I'm also in the "pre-ordered from Amazon" club. I couldn't resist the 40% off.