H1 is an action/adventure movie, at least as it's written. The tone is "dark" in the same way that Indiana Jones Nazis are "evil." Not so much real evil as its more of a utilitarian kind of sinister. This isn't a bad thing, by any means, it's just a way of saying that the overall course of the adventure is, well, an adventure more than an examination of the heart of darkness beating within all of us. If you're expecting Apocalypse Now brace yourself for something that, were it a movie, would probably have Spielberg or Bruckheimer attached to it. Think of the Hellboy movie and you've got an idea.
Light on skill challenges and traps (there are a couple) mostly it's action: running jumping climbing chasing swashbuckling action. Highly entertaining, definitely challenging, and overall a great showcase for the pace of 4e combat. The pace is pretty decent with some good break periods for social encounters and general "safe-time" poking around, then it's back into the fray.
I don't want to do a big giveaway on the final boss battle, but it does a great job of really showcasing the simple-yet-awesome synergy possibilities that the new NPC/Monster design makes easy with a three-way combo that can turn really nasty on the PCs if they don't see what's being set up. (Most will, since one key in the combo has all the tact of an exposed lawnmower blade.) All in all a very fun fight.
Those who were looking for KotS to be a deep first chance to really put 4e through the paces may be disappointed. There are a lot of chances for player inventiveness but success never hinges on the Players delivering a mental miracle (which is a good state for a module that has no idea what my players are like.)
Those who are looking for KotS to be a "welcome to D&D and kicking ass" will have a million moments to revel. It really is an adventure in the vein of Firefly, The Mummy, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, or Hellboy.
Pull out the broadsword, polish up your boots, dust off the spellbook, charge the door, and hold the line, welcome to 4e.
Sounds like a good showcase.
"welcome to D&D and kicking ass"
Pull out the broadsword, polish up your boots, dust off the spellbook, charge the door, and hold the line, welcome to 4e.
Sounds awesome.
Is your review based on reading it? or playing it? or GMing Shadowfell?
Sounds like a good showcase.
Playing and reading.
Thanks very much for the write up, the adventure sounds like just the ticket for kicking of a new campaign. Skill challenges are a bit much for a first time, fun combat and a little 'chatting in town' down time is plenty. That said, I'll be ready for a bit more once H2 comes around, so let's hope they step it up.
From the write-ups on Thunderspire I would expect a bit more in the way of social/skill encounters. Supposedly the first chapter of H2 centers around a conspiracy type investigation that leads into sending the PCs down into the Labyrinth. From there "Minotaur Labyrinth" says "traps and hazards galore" to me.
I would also like to mention that my FLGS hasn't had more then a dozen copies of WOTC games on their shelves in years. I could not imagine that they could be considered a premier DnD store (maybe WoTC, they do sell lots of trading cards).
I would also like to mention that my FLGS hasn't had more dozen copies of WOTC games on their shelves in years. I could not imagine that hey could be considered a premier DnD store (maybe WoTC, they do sell lots of trading cards).
"Premier" is just a nice word, almost everyone on the WotC shipping list got a copy for free.
LFK, seeing as you have played through KotS, how was the combat pacing? I found 4e combat can be a litle slow if the players haven't yet learnt what powers they have, and it takes a little while for the synergies to begin emerging? Did things speed up as the adventure progressed?
I read a description on one of the skill challenges in another thread on this board, it sounds like it's quite well balanced whichever way it goes.
LFK, seeing as you have played through KotS, how was the combat pacing? I found 4e combat can be a litle slow if the players haven't yet learnt what powers they have, and it takes a little while for the synergies to begin emerging? Did things speed up as the adventure progressed?
Almost everyone involved had already played 4e before from DDXP material, so it was pretty much lock and load in that regard.
In our first combat encounter we faced several kobolts and a couple of what I think were large lizards with teeth.
I played the cleric. I called him Ban Daid of “ generic Sun God”. Any ways enough of my lack of spontaneous creativity.
We all found the combat to be fairly confusing and a bit frustrating. Some things went smoothly. The attack roll and damage roll seemed to be pretty much the same as 3.5. It seems the saving throws have been converted to some sort of AC, as near as I can tell.
There was much confusion over whether someone was “Marked” or “Unmarked”. Jokes about Dogs fire hydrants emerged. Another thing we had a great deal of fun with was the description of the “minor action” which was “more exciting then a free action,” like drawing a sword. There were lots of jokes about weather things were “ more exciting” and if that made it a “minor “ action or not.
My character the cleric didn’t get a “Cure light wounds” spell until second level, so I wasn’t quite sure what to do. My best guess was that my abilities such as healing strike and healing word and beacon of hope allowed others to use something they had which was called a “ healing surge” as a free action, instead of a standard action. So I did my best to enable the rest of the party to use their healing surges.
My character had two at will powers, one per encounter power and one 1 per day power.
There were some class abilities as well.
All in all some things made sense, others were confusing and I am sure we made allot of mistakes. There we are.
This is to be expected with a new set of rules. I remember some similar frustration when I began playing 3.0 after playing 2.0 for 12 years. I could see a clear relationship between Thaco and BAB. I could see a clear relationship between the Paralyze Poison Death Magic, Rod Staff and Wand, Petrify and Polymorph, Breath Weapon, and Spells saving throws, and the Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saving throws.
I could not see such relationships with these rules. I don’t have my hands on the books yet. Perhaps the relationships will become apparent when I do.
When we got into town. We had allot of fun role-playing. My friend playing the wizard decided his character was an old letch, trying to bed every girl in the bar.
The Dragon born paladin was a source of great fascination. People were coming over and touching him to feel his scales.
Kudos to our DM for this little touch. I have experienced something similar to this. In 95 I was in rural China in a small farming village, on a photography assignment, and I remember the staring squads. There would always be a group of people surrounding you, and staring at what you were doing, commenting to themselves on whatever I did.
Matronly women would come up behind me and touch my blond hair. My guide/minder explained to me, that they had never seen hair like that. They wanted to touch it to make sure it was real.
Anyways we had allot of fun role-playing, and we shall see if we go onto the next encounter next weekend. This tells me that my “fun” I get from playing D%D comes from spending time with my friends, not the game mechanics. The game is an excuse for my group of friends to get together.
All I can say is this after my first experience playing 4E. I am not sold on 4E. Simply I am currently undecided. I will decide if I like 4E once I have my rule books in my hand and I have read them. I will continue to pay some more 4E before making a decision weather to switch or not. I am not going to base my decision on one experience. I need more experience playing and more information in terms of having the actual 4e rule books, before I can decide if 4E is an improvement or not, and if I should switch or not. I can say I am happy with 3.5 and in my opinion I don’t see the need for a new game. 3.5 needs a few tweaks that is all.
I am not advocating either 4E or 3.5. All I am saying is A) I am not sold on 4E, I am undecided pending more experience, and access to the rules so I can examine them myself and come to my own decision. And B) I am happy with 3.5. So either way as consumer things look good. I will either have a good product in 4.0 and I will continue to buy Wotc’s products or I will stick with a product I am already happy with in terms of 3.5, and I will be purchasing the pathfinder products, which I am already happy with. Maybe I will do both, if I can afford to.
Well those are my two coppers for what they are worth.
*snip* play report *snip*
Thanks for the report, Elyas. If you don't mind, I have a question:
Do you feel that, had you (or the DM, or someone else in the group) had more experience with the 4e rules, whether from reading the forums or teaser articles, fan compilations etc. you would have had a better time?
In other words, do you feel your "frustration from not knowing the rules" was a big negative or only a minor nuisance?
Also, the "D&D is about having fun with friends, not game mechanics" is an excellent advice that should be mentioned in these forums more often. ;)
Would anyone be willing to PM me a general list of the adversaries? I don't want to spoil anything for folks in the thread, so please don't post it in the open here. I just want a general list so I can start buying and trading to have the mini's I'll want to run it next week.
Thanks!
Anyway, I thought it seemed a little early for it to be out when he gave it to me on Tuesday.
About some of the questions about why some people already have and are playing the adventures, I think the release in Asia was earlier than North America's. My friend got his copy from Amazon Japan around Sunday because he handed it over to me on Tuesday. I'm going to run it for our gaming group, so he didn't want the temptation of reading through it and spoiling his fun.
Anyway, I thought it seemed a little early for it to be out when he gave it to me on Tuesday.
Actually those of us lucky enough to play it was due to us either working or being friends with the owner of a FLGS, many of whom got early preview copies to help generate buzz.
Question unrelated to how well it plays:
Would anyone be willing to PM me a general list of the adversaries? I don't want to spoil anything for folks in the thread, so please don't post it in the open here. I just want a general list so I can start buying and trading to have the mini's I'll want to run it next week.
Thanks!
You can find a complete list of the minis in the module on EnWorld. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=225592&page=3&pp=15
Sorry it has taken me a while to get back to you. I had to find this post again. I find usually that most people on these message boards take little interest in the thoughts I post. Usually I don’t see anyone asking me a question about a point I made or anything. Thanks.
To answer your question, We have played for 3 or is it 4 weeks now. The frustration has continued for me. It has been a big negative so far. To use a photography analogy, It is like trying to compose a photograph, without being able to look through the viewfinder of the camera, and only being able to point the camera in the general direction you want.
I am beginning to figure some things out, but I realize it will take time. I feel I need some actual data in order to make an informed decision. Until I have the rulebooks in hand, I feel as if I am groping in the dark. We all are.
Currently I like the variety that 3.5 has. You get this after the game has been around for several years. It happened for 2nd edition, and now for 3rd edition. The variety will soon build up for 4th edition.
I understand that Wizards of the Coast needs to continue to produce products, however for me 5 years is not a long time. 3.5 came out in 2003. I feel as if I have lots of things I have not tried. In one game I am in I am playing a Druid. I have never played a druid before. I am sure there was a point here somewhere. I guess it is that, I am growing tired of buying supplements. I have the brown soft cover Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd edition “ the complete Wizards handbook” and the 3rd edition “ tome and Blood” and the 3.5 “complete arcane” and “complete mage books”. I know that soon there will be a “ 4th ed complete spell caster book”. I simply am growing tired of buying rulebook after rulebook. So I am going to take a very close look at the 4th edition before I decided if I want to buy more then the basic rulebooks.
Maybe 4th edition will be an improvement maybe it won’t. In order for me to make a decision, I need to play 4th ed, read the rule books figure out the system, then I will know if I need to find space for another book shelf in my apartment or not. I will need another bookshelf anyways, whether it will be filled with Pathfinder books, and photography books or WOTC, Pathfinder and photography books remains to be seen. I have already read the pathfinder adventure paths, and find them to be good products which I enjoy reading. I will do the same for the 4th edition.
As we are trying out Keep on the Shadow fell, I am realizing that the Role playing, which I enjoy, and the time I spend hanging out with my friends which I also enjoy, don’t depend on a rules edition. I find all of this 4eddition is better, no 3rd edition is better, to be very tiresome and this false dichotomy misses the entire point of D&D in my opinion. The point being, we guys usually need some form of excuse to hang out together. For some of us it is a poker game, for others it is a ball game on TV and for us it is D&D. The whole point in my opinion of the D&D game is to spend some time with your friends in the same room. Whether the room needs ventilation or not might or might not be noticed by the room’s inhabitants.
Well thank you for putting up with the long rambling post. I hope I remembered to answer you question somewhere in there.
Elyas,