Khalia - Custom Race, Powers, etc. (4e)

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 2:04:24
Khalia


Average Height: 5’0” – 5’10”
Average Weight: 90 – 130 lbs

Ability Scores: + 2 Dexterity, + 2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Normal, Darkvision

Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Arcana, +2 Perception


Pride of Many(Racial Major) – Khalia grant a +1 bonus on attack rolls to allies adjacent to them.



Eyes of the Outsider(Racial Minor) - Khalia gain a +2 bonus on rolls to detect illusions.

Nine Lives
(Racial Minor) - Khalia gain a +1 bonus to death saving throws.
Magicked Metabolism(Racial Minor) - Though they lack mouths, khalia still need food and drink. A cantrip that all khalia instinctively know processes food and water into a floating ethereal substance which can then be absorbed into the khalia as a normal person would ingest. This spell takes as much time to complete as a normal meal takes to eat. Enchanted or nonstandard food and drink, including poisoned articles, induce their effects as normal.


Break the Leash
(Racial Power)
Your people served under the collar of pain and malice once. Never again, no matter the cost.
Encounter - No Action - Personal
Trigger: You have an effect on you that a save could end.
Effect: Spend a healing surge, but gain no hit points. Instead, you automatically save against that effect.


Description

Khalia are strange creatures indeed. Resembling humanoid great cats, they lack any features in regard to eyes or mouths, having only expanses of their fur pattern in their places and no hint they ever had them. Their fur textures and patterns can be as varied as the great cats’ pelts themselves, with most resembling leopards, both snow and golden, whereas rare others resemble lions or tigers. They often have long, furry tails, and they have head hair like a human, which is often worn long, and whose color can be a continuation of their fur pattern, or another color entirely, usually related to the palette they bear. They can be muscular or they can be slender and wirey, and extremely rarely is a khalia overweight, due to their unique means of sustenance. There is much speculation as to how they came to be this way, either starting as another humanoid race that was cursed, or a strange Underdark version of a cat that evolved to sapience. The khalia do not keep much history of their origins, so the answer may be eternally lost to time. Khalia mature around the same time as humans do and have a similar lifespan.

Often compared to the rakshasa for their bizarre appearance, they could not be more different as far as alignment and motivation. Khalia are fairly seclusive, but they’re not violent, preferring to talk and engage in discussion first, harry intruders to their territory with traps and trickery second, than lastly outright combat. If it does come to violence however, their attacks often lead into vicious flurries of daggers, claws, or arrows, and an opponent will quickly find themselves a pincushion before their eyes open next. They will not hesitate to fight an opponent that is clearly evil or clearly ready to attack, and they seem to have a complete intolerance of rakshasa. The mere rumor of one is usually enough to stir khalia adventurers into a frantic search, and rest won't come easy until they're found.

Despite their animal appearance, khalia actually seem to prefer urban and city life to that of the wilderness, and don't seem to have any special empathy or care toward their more mundane, feral likenesses, reacting to them much like anyone else would. Their preferred style seems to not involve clothing too heavily covering, but still stylish. Their armors are often designed in much the same way, using less overall materials but still providing adequate protection. In addition, khalia clothing and armor tend to focus more on comfort to the wearer than other garments and armaments, making them popular even outside of khalia circles. Silk and soft furs are especially popular among these humanoid cats. Due to fact that they do not eat in a normal style, popular gifts both between khalia and for khalia are incenses. Gifting a khalia with an incense candle of their favorite aroma will likely result in a friend in short order!

Khalia as a whole do not value honor much, but they do treasure friendship and will fight to the death to protect someone they care for deeply enough. Strangely, even young khalia seem to understand and adapt well to the rigors of martial instruction and battalion training, suggesting their origins lies in soldierhood. Almost paradoxically however, they do not often worship a deity, but if a particular khalia is religious, it is likely to revere Avandra, Melora, or other deities of freedom. More than anything, khalia value their freedom, and will grow quite uneasy with those who try to impose law and duty upon them.


Racial Feats


Heroic Tier Feats

Arcane Claws(Pre-Req: Khalia, Claws racial feat) - Your claws count as an implement.

Cat Nap
(Pre-Req: Khalia, Magicked Metabolism racial ability) - You need only rest for three hours to get the benefits of an extended rest.

Claws(Pre-Req: Khalia) - Your unarmed melee attacks do not trigger attacks of opportunity, have a +3 proficiency bonus, deal 1d8 damage, may be enchanted, and you are considered armed for the purposes of using powers and abilities that require Light Blades and Dual Wielding.

Eyes of Truth(Pre-Req: Khalia, Eyes of the Outsider racial power) - Your bonus on rolls to detect illusions gain an additional +2 feat bonus.

Play Along(Pre-Req: Khalia) - You gain a +2 damage bonus to melee or ranged basic attacks if an ally you can see used a basic attack of the same type before your turn.

Wounded Pride(Pre-Req: Khalia, Pride of Many racial ability) - Your Pride of Many power grants a +1 feat bonus to all defenses to bloodied allies that are adjacent to you.


Paragon Tier Feats

Arcanist Artillery(Pre-Req: Khalia, 15+ DEX, 11th level) - Your ranged weapon attacks and powers ignore cover.

Arcane Clawmark(Pre-Req: Khalia, Claws racial feat, Arcane Claws racial feat, 11th level) - You gain the Arcane Clawmark power.


Arcane Clawmark
Imitating a clawing motion, you leave the beleaguered victim of your wrath something to remember you by.
Encounter - Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You score a critical hit with a power tagged with the Arcane keyword.
Effect: The target of the attack takes ongoing 10 damage of the type used by the triggering attack(save ends).


Honed Claws(Pre-Req: Khalia, Claws racial feat, 11th level) - Your unarmed attacks now deal 1d10 damage, and critically strike on a roll of 19-20.

Sharp Guard(Pre-Req: Khalia, Claws racial feat, 11th level) - Whenever an opponent strikes you in combat and you are unarmed and not helpless, that opponent takes 2 damage.

Strength of the Pride(Pre-Req: Khalia, Pride of Many racial ability, 11th level) - The bonus to attack granted by Pride of Many increases to +2. If you have the Wounded Pride racial feature, the defense bonus granted increases to +2 as well.

Solution Nine(Pre-Req: Khalia, Nine Lives racial ability, 11th level) - You may re-roll your first failed saving throw against death after being reduced to 0 hit points.


Epic Tier Feats

Arcanist Precision(Pre-Req: Khalia, 23+ DEX, 21st level) - Your ranged weapon attacks and powers ignore concealment.

Fury of the Pride(Pre-Req: Khalia, Pride of Many racial ability, Strength of the Pride racial feat, 21st level) - Pride of Many now grants a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls in addition to its other effects.

Glory of the Pride(Pre-Req: Khalia, Pride of Many racial ability, Strength of the Pride racial feat, 21st level) - Pride of Many's benefits now extend to a burst 5 radius that cannot target the caster.

Rebellious(Pre-Req: Khalia, Break the Leash racial power, 21st level) - Break the Leash no longer consumes a healing surge.

Shred(Pre-Req: Khalia, Claws, Honed Claws, 21st level): Your unarmed critical hits now deal an ongoing 15 damage(save ends).
#2

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 2:08:45
Here's an image of a Khalia cleric to go with it:

A Khalia Cleric(Felia was the old racial name)
#3

alitain

Apr 13, 2011 13:03:06
Well I'm all for cat races, and new races especially since there haven't been any around here in awhile.

I do have to say though, while I enjoy the concept you kinda have a lot there.  First off you have a race that is blind, but you give them tremorsense without restriction.  Tremorsense negates getting surprised since you can always sense anyone around you.  Even if its based on an echolocation and thus can be hindered by walls, it still is powerful.

Mind you I've been wanting to play a blind character for...well forever it feels like and have looked at rules both in 3.5 and 4th and the best way that makes it easier on both you and the DM, without a bunch of rules or worries of overpowering the character, is to leave the blindness flavor.  Meaning they remain blind but you play them as if they aren't.  They have darkvision only because yes they would sensibly be able to tell people in the dark.  But otherwise treat them no different as characters with sight except they can't see color.

I bring this up because one of the racial features is the ability to read by touching the paper.  Really the only way, if blind, to read is to read braille or you could trace the individual letters if the typing is raised.  But not just by brushing their fingers over flat paper, with non-raised, non-braille, letters.

It just seems to me you want a race that has the coolness of being "blind" yet has basically no disadvantages aside from not being able to see color since you give them the bonus of tremorsense as well as being able to read.

I already gave you my suggestion to replace the tremorsense.  I would remove the supersensitive touch, just doesn't really seem plausible, even in a fantasy setting, unless like I said the text was raised or braille.

The magical sustenance this is neat, but I would leave it strictly to feeding off the magical energy of the world around them, and thus not needing to eat or drink.  You could keep the fact that they'll starve if there's no magic around but I would honestly just give them a mouth and let them talk, or else it could cause issues trying to communicate with the rest of the party.  And also it'd let them eat food if there's no magical energy around.  Because honestly if I were the DM and the player said they wanted to play a race that can only feed off magical energy I would, at some point, have them in a magic dead space.  Which means they could very well die and have to make a new character.

Same when I played a pacifist cleric who did NO damage.  I ended up alone in a fight for awhile, thankfully my team rescued me but I could easily have been killed, consequence I chose.  I mean if the person was willing to accept that potential, near easy kill, then so be it.

Claws are cool, and definitely standard for cats I should think.  I would just specifically say they're classified as a light blade weapon with the off hand property, same as the feat the gnolls can take for claws.  Your description of them is fine just vague so there's no way to judge how they should be treated.  Can they be enchanted like the gnolls' as well?  Because I'd honestly just give them the same feat that the gnolls have.  It's clear and simple to understand.

I think you need to cut out one of the racial powers.  You give them an at will that allows them to cancel out a 10, 20, 30 ft drop without harm.  Powerful stuff.  Sure, they could at heroic be dropped from higher than ten feet, but the falling damage basically works at 1d10 per 10ft.  I like the flavor of the utility but it's kinda strong.  I would cut it in half and leave it as their only racial power.

Because then you give them an attack, even if an encounter, that blinds the enemy for the round.  I would honestly make this a feat.  It would be a decent feat that say, once per encounter when making a melee basic attack using their claws, if the attack hits the target is blinded till the end of their next turn.  Or I guess you could keep it to "your next turn", I just see it fluffwise that on their turn they'd shake their head, wipe the blood from their face, and clear their vision but that's just me.

I haven't looked at all the feats and stuff, nothing against you I just generally don't bother on anyones.  I like the race just think it could use some tweaking.  But I will also say, if this is the race you want to play, then try it out, talk to the DM and see if, on a trial basis, you can use the race as it is now, and if issues come up then later you and the DM can then go and modify the race.  That's my best advice.
#4

rampant

Apr 13, 2011 15:14:51
Blind + tremorsense does not equal usable. For starters tremorsense only applies to things incontact with the same chunk of ground you are. Flying stuff, leaping stuff, floating stuff, all of these are invisible to you. MEaning you grant constant combat advantage to ranged attackers or flyers, in addition to being unable to find them yourself. 

Blindsense is the one with echolocation. Furthermore it's not much like the ability you describe.

Finally what is the range of this special vision?

If you're going to make up a new ability give it a new name instead of using a name for an existing standard ability.

NExt up claws are a bad idea for a racial feature, despite any coolness factor, for the simple reason that they are useless to non-weapon classes, and thus should be a feat so a more generally applicable racial feature can be used instead.

LAnguage restrictions are difficult to judge simply because DMs are rather inconsistent about enforcing them. Some DM's never bothered to look at languages even back in the days when people didn't necessarily all speak common. Nowadays when that's the assumption, you look like you're trying to sneak in a penalty to balance the race (bad thing to do in the first place) in way that the DM is likely to forget about (which is just crass).

If a race is so alien, or bizarre, or different that it cannot function somewhat normally inside the rules, and roles of the game, then it might not be a good race. These guys need a major overhaul.
#5

lady_ishtar

Apr 13, 2011 16:43:26
I would say the claws are ok, but not as a class feature. Make it a feat, and make them on par with a superior weapon. This way weapon using classes could take it in lieu of superior weapon proficiency, and classes that dont use weapons dont get a useless feature.
#6

rampant

Apr 13, 2011 18:37:50
Ok now they're useless in a fight, and worse than that at parties.

Even a lazy lord needs to be able to perceive their allies. 
#7

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 19:11:11
Hokay. I kicked around the vision idea, and decided to just go ahead and bite the bullet. But there is a catch with it, at least, and the race as a whole has a general vulnerability, which is a good thing.

Rather than do another massive POOOOST, gonna just list what changed.

General Changes:

Manavision(Racial Ability)-

Became Normal vision with the following restriction: Khalia lose their ability to see if placed in an anti-magic zone or some equivalent. In addition, opponents in dim light have total concealment as though they were in total darkness in any case.

Catfall(Racial Power)-

Remade into an Encounter power. Falls deal a minimum of 1d10 when using this power. If a fall would deal less or equal to 1d10+0 damage, Catfall will have no effect. If Catfall would reduce damage below 1d10+0, it instead reduces it to 1d10+0.

Magical Sight(Racial Feat)-

Removed due to Manavision being replaced.

Eye Rake(Racial Feat)-

Damage is now 1d4-2, and the save roll is only forced if the target actually takes damage. Power is counted as used in either instance.

Consume(Racial Paragon Path Power)-

Effect lasts until end of next turn instead of end of encounter.

Pounce(Racial Feat)-

The target of the attack does not take falling damage. Falling damage still applies to the khalia.

Sharp Claws(Racial Feat)-

Removed due to balance issues.

Shred(Racial Feat)-

Ongoing damage reduced to 1.

Arcane Rebirth(Racial Epic Destiny Power)-

This power is unusable if the character is in an anti-magic field or its equivalent.

Arcane Consumption(Racial Epic Destiny Power)-

This power now only effects your next attack, damage, OR healing roll, rather than all three. In addition, it now has a maximum of one stack.
#8

rampant

Apr 13, 2011 19:56:25
Why is 4e design philosophy such a sticking point with some people?

A well made race should offer advantages, not penalties, and just because wizards did it doesn't make it a good idea.

Just give them the ability to see the magic in any area they can see, and make them immune/resistant to becoming blinded.

Maybe Darkvision, and radiant damage resistance.


The presence or absence of eyes is irrelevant to a DnD creature's visual acuity. Lets face it, blind isn't much of a trait, It doesn't even make you medusa proof anymore. 
#9

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 20:02:14
That'd be a bit.. Powerful. o.O I'm trying to jump off the track of overpowered abilities, so I figure err on the side of caution.
#10

rampant

Apr 13, 2011 20:39:05
Well considering the race has no abilities that don't need to be reworked or replaced, i'd say you have plenty of room.
#11

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 20:51:01
Still too strong? I dunno how much further I can knock them down.. Well, I'll take a look..

Hokay, did some edits..

Catfall(Racial Power)-

Removed due to balance reasons. New racial power is Magicked Metabolism.

Nimble Grace(Racial Feat)-

Removed due to nonexistence of Catfall.

Nine Lives(Racial Feat)-

Removed due to balance reasons.

Vision-

Changed to Normal with no restrictions.

Language Limitation-

Removed.

Languages-

Khalia language removed.

Magicked Metabolism-

No longer affected by anti-magic zones.

Magical Absorbtion-

Now gives 1 temporary hit point rather than 1 extra hit point from magical healing.

Eye Rake-

Removed the secondary effect.
#12

salla

Apr 13, 2011 21:29:17
I think it's less a matter of 'powerful' as 'limited/restricted'.  For example, there is no other power or effect, racial or otherwise, in the game that cares about something being 'magical'.  That's not really how 4e does things.
#13

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 21:32:21
Well, I think the latest adjustments brought it in line where it should be. The speech, eating, and such are normalized now.

Spoke too soon. Few more changes...

Magical Regeneration-

Removed for balance reasons.

Thick Fur-

Removed for balance reasons.

Magical Acclimation-

Does not trigger from attacks made by magic weapons.

Consume-

Does not boost damage, only attack.

Break the Leash-

Changed to once per day, instead of once per encounter.

Pounce-

Now deals 1d4 damage, no modifier.

Shred-

Removed for balance reasons.

Tesla Claws
-

Removed for balance reasons.

Magical Adaptation-

Removed for balance reasons.

Primal Arcane Instinct-

Removed for balance reasons.

Magical Empowerment-

Only boosts attack or healing rolls.

Arcane Rebirth-

Removed for balance reasons.

Arcane Consumption-

Cannot be triggered by destroying magic items.

Mana Travel-

Removed for balance reasons.

Also just fixed some terminology. Made sure to use the arcane keyword, rather than just saying magical stuff.
#14

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 22:05:31
Cool, think I got it down to the bare minimum. Looks good to me. Thoughts?
#15

rampant

Apr 13, 2011 22:44:16
ok two things before we get back to work on features

why bother with all the rigamarole around eating normal food? why not just have them eat residium rations? 

Why no flex stats? 
#16

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 22:46:40
That's to help normalize the race against the other races.

And flex stats? Nothing in the build necessarily calls for it, except for perhaps DEX/CON..

Plus, unless there's a way to poison residuum, they wouldn't be susceptable to subterfuge of that kind.
#17

rampant

Apr 13, 2011 22:59:02
S'not like anyone uses ingestion toxins anymore anyways.

Besides their abilities should carry some benefits.

The problems we had with your old build didn't stem from being over powered, most of them stemmed from them being hideously underpowered and impossible to use in a combat situation. 
#18

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 13, 2011 23:01:00
Yeah, I was too vague with describing what kinds of targets would be triggers, and plus there were numerous balance issues, so I used more proper terminology to be clearer and streamlined things.

As far as toxins, they should share basic vulnerabilities, I'd think.
#19

Fedosu

Apr 14, 2011 0:03:17
So currently they have one racial feature, which can pretty much be summed up as "They can eat." ...

What exactly is it that you're trying to accomplish with this race? Once you've answered that question, things will come much easier.
Are they supposed to be cat people? Are they sopposed the eyeless and mouthless creatures? Are they supposed to creatures that hunger for magic?
Is there a specific reason you're placing these concepts together? What about being each one requires being the others?
#20

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 14, 2011 0:12:12
Problem was that the prior abilities they had were unbalanced and so had to be removed to bring the race more in line.

Well, truth be told, they're a somewhat far-off cousin of the rakshasa, explaining their catlike appearance, affinity(and appetite) for magic, and subtle, strange appearance(instead of backwards palms, they have no faces).

As far as why, well, I thought it was an interesting concept at the time, to have a playable relative and enemy of rakshasa. Not 100% sure on the backstory, but the khalia were likely shock troopers and slave labor for rakshasa, which explains why they interact with magic as they do, as it would have been a potent defense against enemy sorcerers AND an easy way to buff up your force by just letting it eat a couple of spells and then unleashing the enhanced critters.

After a time of warring, the rakshasa found a way into the material plane and because they were exploring here, they weren't tending to their laborers in their home realm, which led to opportunities for insurrection, rebellion, and eventual escape into the material plane.

.. But that's just a prototype.
#21

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 14, 2011 2:30:23
Welp, tried another overhaul...
#22

Fedosu

Apr 14, 2011 10:46:44
Monster powers don't have power source keywords.
#23

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 14, 2011 14:01:22
...?

Not entirely sure what that means. The racial powers/feats that rely on Arcane keywords won't work? They're not really meant to counter monster powers like dragon's breath or whatnot.
#24

Fedosu

Apr 14, 2011 15:18:44
Yes, but generally speaking, even a monster mage, wizard, or warlock wouldn't have "Arcane" as a keyword on any of their powers. This basically means that unless the dm specifically adds that keyword to powers, the arcane attraction power will absolutely never trigger whether the enemies are targeting you or not. Detect magic will run into similar problems.
Magical Absorbtion isn't useless if you find yourself in the arcane power bursts or blasts of one of your allies often. Sympathetic Magic would work except that there is no definition of an "elemental keyword", same with arcane shift. Other feats suffer from the same issues.

Returning to arcane attraction though, even you removed the arcane keyword bit, it still isn't a very good racial power. The problem is that it is very useful if you're playing a defender, but less useful for other roles, and especially so for controllers who tend to have the lowest hit points; taking a hit for an ally is far more likely to lead to your death. I suppose there are circumstances wherein a controller might say "oh no! The healer's about to drop and we need him alive to save the rest of us, so I better take this hit for him!" but those instances are going to be rare. Racial powers should generally be as role neutral as possible, and they should almost always get used in every encounter. As the power is written right now, it fits neither of those criteria.
#25

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 14, 2011 15:47:12
Well, that fix is easy enough then. Catfall would become the racial power and Arcane Attraction would shift to a Paragon Tier feat and become Daily.

The keyword thing is a stickier problem though. I don't want them countering /all/ powers or affecting all powers, and so figured 'hey, there's an arcane keyword, slap that on and problem solved! Thanks Wiz!'. Without that limitation, they could start countering or affecting, say, Twinstrike or whatnot, and that's where things would get kinda stupid.

Also, on second though, Magical Senses seems a little too powerful as well.
#26

Fedosu

Apr 14, 2011 16:09:58
But catfall as a racial power suffer from the issue that it isn't going to be useful in most combats. What percentage of combat include the risk of falling? Again, unless the dm is purposefully creating those situations so the player's power isn't useless it won't be that often. The other issue with Catfall is that 1 square is only 5 feet, and falling damage is based on 10 foot increments; what this means is that even when you are falling catfall will only reduce the damage you take from falling 50% of the time (when the number of squares before catfall applies is even), the rest of the time the recalculated distance will still apply the same ammount of damage.
#27

lady_ishtar

Apr 14, 2011 16:47:57
How about this for Catfall

Catfall (racial ability)
You gain +5 bonus to acrobatics checks to avoid falling damage. You may make an acrobatics check to avoid falling damage even if you are not trained in acrobatics.
#28

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 14, 2011 16:52:45
Well, rethought a lot of stuff, and basically overhauled the entire race again. Got rid of the PP and ED, as it didn't make much sense.

Also got rid of the following powers:

Eye Rake
Magical Acclimation
Magical Charge
Devour Spell
Feedback
Consume
Magical Adaptation
Magical Empowerment
Arcane Rebirth
Draw Essence
Mana Travel

Changed the Racial Power to this, so it works nicely.

Tactical Maneuvers
Whether to get away or in the way, you maneuver yourself and friends to great effect.
Daily – Standard Action
Effect: Choose an ally in a square adjacent to you. You may move to any other square adjacent to that ally.

The other idea, Boost, turned out way too strong.

Boost
A little help to your friends.
Daily – Immediate Reaction – Range 10
Trigger: You or an ally you can see makes a roll for any reason.
Effect: Grant a +1 power bonus to that roll.
Special: Only one Boost may affect a roll at any time. At 21st level, this restriction is removed.
#29

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 15, 2011 1:04:58
Just as a side note, I want to thank everyone for putting up with the discussion. Trying desperately to get these to work because the group I'll be playing with in about a month /REALLY/ wants them up and running, and I think I've got a decent enough concept here.

Haven't really designed anything for 4e before(I primarily play GURPS, so penalties are nothing new to me), so I'm floundering a touch.
#30

rampant

Apr 15, 2011 1:34:57
HOld ground may be too powerful. I mean a dwarf only get's to knock one square off their forced movement.
#31

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 15, 2011 2:35:59
Whee. Another revision. Hold Ground(renamed Clawgrip) got bumped to Paragon Tier Feat status.
#32

rampant

Apr 15, 2011 2:54:34
HOnestly an ability that good may be over powered for a 30th level capstone ability on an ED.
#33

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 15, 2011 2:58:07
Huh. Well, that's not a problem, and can easily be removed.

New racials. Always fun!

Removed Clawgrip and Magical Endurance.

Aw, blast it. The second Major Ability's too strong too. Fraaaaaak.

Removed the following powers/feats:

Arcane Skill
Arcane Stoicism
Arcane Strings
Arcane Selection
Arcane Yarn
Arcane Focus
Armored Grace
Cat's Guile
Improved Landing
Shake Loose

Made Nine Lives the racial power. They'll have only one Major Ability.

Pride of Many now grants +1 attack to allies the Khalia is adjacent to, rather than giving the Khalia +1 if adjacent to an ally.
#34

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 15, 2011 16:27:19
Did another revision, and this time I really like where it went. Keeps nicely to the dual theme of 'magic cats!' and 'rebel conscripts!' I think. Some live playtesting tonight should help me idenfity new issues.
#35

rampant

Apr 15, 2011 19:13:10
Ok I think we need to take a look at what constitutes a major racial feature, because you're swinging around the extreme ends so fast I'm getting dizzy.

A +2 on detecting illusions is a minor ability at best. Most illusion powers a character is going to encounter are powers used by enemies, and as such detection is a non-issue. Rituals, items and such will create illusions, often detected by the insight skill, so just to be sure a minor ability would be :

You gain a +2 on any roll made to identify illusions.


Now why does the pride of many feature stop working if the ally drops prone for whatever reason? Why not just:

Adjacent allies receive a +1 bonus to attack. 

Finally I think this race could legitimately claim darkvision as a racial feature. 
#36

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 15, 2011 22:05:19
I'm not sure why Darkvision would work at all.. o.o That's rather specifically listed as a no-no, up there with Oversized.

That said, I could lose the +2 illusion detection power, but unsure quite what to replace it with..

And Pride of Many was just writted poorly, I guess. That's within what I wanted. I'll fix that.
#37

rampant

Apr 15, 2011 22:34:33
You don't have to get rid of the illusion thing, just understand that it is a minor feature, not a major one. Like how the elven proficiency with bows isn't a big deal power-wise, it's just a little bit of fluff with a crunchy center. These are good things.

As for darkvision, most of the time a race doesn't warrant it. Everybody and their dog's cousin had darkvision in 3e which quickly made it moot. So it is best to keep DV rare. However being an eyeless race, that uses magic to "see", I think there is a strong case for an exception here.
#38

alitain

Apr 16, 2011 6:59:45
You don't have to get rid of the illusion thing, just understand that it is a minor feature, not a major one. Like how the elven proficiency with bows isn't a big deal power-wise, it's just a little bit of fluff with a crunchy center. These are good things.

As for darkvision, most of the time a race doesn't warrant it. Everybody and their dog's cousin had darkvision in 3e which quickly made it moot. So it is best to keep DV rare. However being an eyeless race, that uses magic to "see", I think there is a strong case for an exception here.



Exactly what I was saying.  And I think what Rampant is getting at, is that giving the sightless race darkvision is a way to signify, mechanically, that their magical sight isn't hindered by the dark because unlike other races, they aren't seeing with their eyes.
#39

lady_ishtar

Apr 16, 2011 9:50:48
Nine Lives: I would change it to +1 bonus to a death save. Added benefit of getting a healing surge use on a roll of 19-20.

Break the Leash: I would change it to a No Action, that way you can use it when you are dazed, stunned, dominated.

Cat's Slumber: There is no standard rest anymore. I would change it to trance-like ability, like elves or eladrin have.

Claws: Your claws are inferior to every weapon available out there. For them to be worth using you need to make them on par with a superior weapon, otherwise they are not worth a feat. Go with something like this: +3 proficiency bonus, 1d8 damage, they count as Light Blades with off-hand property. You are considered to have a weapon in each hand. Your claws can be enchanted.

Clean Spring: There is a feat like that already. I would make the bonus available all the time, not just when bloodied.

Eyeless Sight: Make in an untyped bonus. There is a feat that grants +2 feat bonus to all saves already. I would go as far as letting you make a save against a blinding effect at the beggining of your turn and end of your turn, in addition to the bonus.

Arcane Claws: I would make it a heroic tier feat, and make Arcane Clawmark into a separate paragon tier feat. Just seems more fun to be able to cast with your hands from the getgo, rather than carrying an implement for first 10 levels.

Cat Nap: I would drop this, see my notes on Cat's Slumber.

Honed Claws: I would drop the attack bonus (as they already get the bonus) and either increase damage die by one step and give them high crit or brutal 1 property, or just give them high crit and brutal 1 property.

Nimble Grace: This is way overpowered, as a high Dex character in heavy armor would be unhittable. I would probably just skip this one.

Arcane Faith: Seems like you are getting this too late to be of any use. Also at this point Arcane Clawmark is the only ability it affects, as Arcane claws can be used as an implement for any power, not just Arcane.

Quick Nap: See Cat's slumber.

Hope this helps.
#40

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 16, 2011 14:46:20
Nine Lives is all right as-is, I figure, especially since it's a racial minor. Giving an expanded range seems a bit overpowered, and functionally, +1 to saves and saving on 9 works identically, I thought.

Break The Leash was intended to work that way, so I adjusted it.

Got rid of the sub-feats to Cat's Slumber, renamed Cat Nap, and now just affects extended rest length. Don't really want to just remake trance, or at least I'm trying not to, as that seems pretty unique to Drow(from what I've seen). Ditto with Darkvision(new version, anyway).

Clean Spring Removed.

Eyeless Sight changed to Eyes of Truth, now grants a +2 feat bonus to illusion detection as opposed to blinding save bonus.

Went ahead and augmented the claws power as suggested. Honed Claws get 19-20 crit range rather than high crit or brutal 1, make enchants a bit more useful on them.

Arcane claws separated from Clawmark and moved.

Nimble Grace removed.

Arcane Faith removed.

Still stumped on a second major.
#41

rampant

Apr 16, 2011 15:02:50
Ok Why is a RACIAL feature giving a POWER bonus? Power bonuses come from powers, not features.

I strongly suggest darkvision as a feature, because the race simply doesn't make sense without it. If you don't have eyes, odds are you don't use light to see, if you don't use light to see, low light levels shouldn't hinder you. 

Finally saving on a 9 is very different from getting a +1 on death throws. It's a more elegant expression of the concept, and allows the cats to not only save on a 9, but get the full spend healing surge and be ready to go recovery on a 19 or a 20 making the ability more appealing.
#42

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 16, 2011 15:17:28
I thought that was just proper terminology. I'll kick it back to just a 'bonus' then.

I guess I see where you're coming from with the Darkvision argument. Not really a fan of such a powerful ability, but I guess it couldn't hurt things to try it, especially since nothing else is immediately striking me as a usable Major that would fit the theme.

And I guess the argument on +1 is roughly the same. 19-20 just feels too wildly powerful however. That's a 10% chance of just popping right back up.
#43

rampant

Apr 16, 2011 17:27:27
vs. the average 5%?

you said you wanted more major features, between that and darkvision I think you've got the equivalent. 
#44

alitain

Apr 16, 2011 21:59:11

I thought that was just proper terminology. I'll kick it back to just a 'bonus' then.

I guess I see where you're coming from with the Darkvision argument. Not really a fan of such a powerful ability, but I guess it couldn't hurt things to try it, especially since nothing else is immediately striking me as a usable Major that would fit the theme.

And I guess the argument on +1 is roughly the same. 19-20 just feels too wildly powerful however. That's a 10% chance of just popping right back up.



See, this is what I don't get.  You think that Darkvision is such a powerful ability to have, but your race is blind yet sees through magic or something right?  Unless that's changed, but from what I remember they're blind but can still sense the world around them at least.  Darkvision really is superpowered when you consider that.

But here's the thing, don't list Darkvision as a racial feature you get.  That's what the "Vision:" portion of the stat block is for.  Otherwise it's weird, maybe even confusing to people who'd see this race where the vision is listed as normal, then as a racial feature they gain darkvision.

#45

EbonyRubberWolf

Apr 16, 2011 23:25:48
Well, I think this may be closing in on the final overall build of these folk. Thanks for the advice thus far.
#46

lady_ishtar

Apr 17, 2011 0:06:39
Looks good. The only changes I would make are to clear things up so there is no confusion.

Nine Lives(Racial Minor) - Khalia gain a +1 bonus to death saving throws.

Break the Leash
Specify that it is a No Action ability.