KotS SIDETREK help & advice! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

KotS SIDETREK help & advice!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zikadik
Jul 10, 2008 12:43:15 Okay, i'm working a sidetrek/subplot into the campaign. We've only played once and the party is in Winterhaven. They've met a bunch of NPCs but not Ninaran, who i have decided will be a half elf confused and angry about her lineage. She thinks (perhaps it's true) that Lord Padraig raped/seduced an elf that became her mother. She questions all elves in Winterhaven if they are her real mother, to the point that everyone thinks she's pretty weird. Her anger and resentment as allowed her to be sucked into the cult of Orcus to gain revenge against Padraig, who may or may not be innocent.

Anyway, there's an elf rogue in the party that i want Ninaran to have eyes for. She's obsessed with elves, and will question this dark character about what it's like to have untainted blood. Dunno where this will lead, maybe a romantic connection. I'm not playing Nin as pure evil, but shades of confused gray.

Anyway, that's not even the side trek yet. We might be down to just one or two players this weekend, so i'm not diving into the adventure as written. Starting the scenario outlined above, there is also the other subplot of another character, Brandis Padraig, is at the house of his father Lord Padraig and his mourning mother. Kobolds killed their young son, and the mother Cynthia is mad with grief. In fact, she implores or son Brandis (the PC) to take as many kobold heads as they can find and mount them on the walls around the keep.

Her own child's head was never found, just the corpse, hence her line of reasoning. She's gone sort of crazy like a Lady Macbeth.

Anyway, that's only part of the side trek. Lord Padraig has been enlisting the help of Delphina Moongem, the elf wanderer, and the priestess of Sune (this is a FR adventure, loosely) to boil an herbal remedy to relax the mother. It is a mildly enchanted concoction, but the main ingredient is all gone. Snailwort only grows by moonlight on Jade Hill, about a mile outside of town.

Delphina Moongem has the uncanny ability to not be accosted by evil things, at least that's the rumor around town. Delphina is like an elf hippie who is always spaced on something she picked. She's very nice, just flighty and tends to ramble about pretty things, butterflies, etc.

Anyway, Padraig knows how dangerous the woods are getting and doesn't want Delphina going alone, despite how the luck of gods seems to shine on her. He's really worried about his wife and needs the sedative brewed. He thinks she's getting suicidal.

SO...the PCs will go there, possibly accompanied by Ninaran who has a dark attachment to the elf rogue, and her obligation to Kalarel.

Along the way they'll get attacked by rogue boars with saddles on their backs, from goblin riders who were killed in some other fashion.

Once at Jade Hill Delphina starts gathering the herbs, but tonight under the full moon the borders between the Feywild and the Mortal Realm are thin, and from the shadows will emerge a parade of flickering faeries, soon followed by redcap and redscarf announcers, followed at last by the HUGE, burping, voluptuous Frog Queen.

Long story short, i need a SKILL CHALLENGE for the Frog Queen encounter, but i'm not real clear on how to do this yet. So, that's why i wrote this thread, so some people can throw out some ideas. I do NOT want this to devolve into combat, the PCs are outnumbered and outclassed. Even failure will mean something minor, like their next attack that would hit misses, and vice versa if they win.
#2
nowiwantmydmg
Jul 10, 2008 13:22:44 Here's a stab:

Complexity 2: (6/3)

Relevant skills:

History -to recall a previous occurance where the frog queen emerged into the world and the consequences(if any) Also maybe used to determine what she was interested in in the past.

Knowledge Arcana -to interpert the significance of the full moon, hill, (faerie ring on it?) and where the faeries emerge from

Diplomacy/Bluff - to influence the frog queen to grant them the herbs they need(which are of course on her land). Bluff for flattery etc as if she is repugnent as suggested an attempt at sincerity is probably a lie.

Intimidate = auto fail, she has a large retinue and has many sorcerous powers herself she is not scared of these bumpkins.

Physical Skills The Frog Queen is not an ice maiden and finds feats of skill and body to be quite entertaining if properly performed. May be used for 1attempt. (Another use maybe used if it is being used for another purpose other than entertainment.

Perception/Insight To observe/discern her nature and the parties bargaining position(fae hidden in the shadows).

Challenge Success: The Frog Queen, not only allows the party to take the herbs, but has her assistants brew the elixir for the party. If she is particularly impressed or one of the group has struck her fancy she may offer other rewards(potion or 2, put in a good word with others of her kind etc.)

Challenge Failure: The faeries brew the concotion for the party, but intentionally screw it up so let it causes side effects(up to you but lycanthropy or something strange would be cool). Alternatively the Frog Queen may begrudgingly allow the party to take the herbs, but demand a favor to be called in at a later date. Another possibility is that the party is granted the herbs but are made to take care of some young mischeivious faeries(who will pull pranks, misplace stuff and impede social encounters) for " a little while"(time being highly subject to a long lived extra planar race)

Hope this helps in some way.
#3
zikadik
Jul 10, 2008 13:44:10 Some good ideas there, thanks!

As for the skills themselves, do i tell the PCs which ones to use, or are they supposed to figure it out themselves? Do they know the general range of the DCs, or is that secret? I haven't run many of the challenges and am slightly confused by them, although the concept seems great.
#4
nowiwantmydmg
Jul 10, 2008 14:11:38 This is a bone of contention with many. Some say you should tell them(the book does as well), others say players should figure it out.

I think my preferred way will be to just have the PC's tell me what they want to do(and if they suggest a skill that's fine too) or what they're doing and assign an appropriate skill based on that.

Example:
PC1: " I rack my brain to see if I can think of any mention of this Frog Queen in the past"
DM: "Roll a history check"
PC1: Rolls : 13 + 8 = 21. "Is 21 good enough?"
DM: "You recall reading somewhere that she appears every 10 years on nights of the full moon. She had been gifted with precious minerals in the past which are reputedly rare in her realm".
PC1: "Cool, I'll use that next turn"
#5
zikadik
Jul 10, 2008 14:43:59
This is a bone of contention with many. Some say you should tell them(the book does as well), others say players should figure it out.

I think my preferred way will be to just have the PC's tell me what they want to do(and if they suggest a skill that's fine too) or what they're doing and assign an appropriate skill based on that.

Example:
PC1: " I rack my brain to see if I can think of any mention of this Frog Queen in the past"
DM: "Roll a history check"
PC1: Rolls : 13 + 8 = 21. "Is 21 good enough?"
DM: "You recall reading somewhere that she appears every 10 years on nights of the full moon. She had been gifted with precious minerals in the past which are reputedly rare in her realm".
PC1: "Cool, I'll use that next turn"

Okay, yeah, that's the route i think i'll go. Seems to encourage roleplaying too. Maybe even give a PC a slight circumstance bonus for a particularly clever argument.
#6
Eric888
Jul 10, 2008 15:41:05 Lord Padraig is just a sweet old family man. What are you doing, sullying the name of the good governor for?
#7
zikadik
Jul 11, 2008 6:00:25
Lord Padraig is just a sweet old family man. What are you doing, sullying the name of the good governor for?

Well, i haven't decided if he actually DID **** Ninaran's mother, or if she's just a nut and is blaming him. We'll see. Maybe it wasn't **** anyway, but consensual and he just didn't want any responsibility for the child. Just like the King from the Game of Throne books who sired a dozen kids but only took care of those born from the Queen.
#8
zikadik
Jul 14, 2008 9:19:07 Well, the session went great. The Skill Challenge worked out fairly well, but there were some players who couldn't offer as much input as they wanted, and i'm not sure how SC are supposed to handle this. Does everyone HAVE to participate, even if their chances of botching a roll are high? I really like the idea behind the challenges, but it seems to raise more questions than answers.
#9
nowiwantmydmg
Jul 14, 2008 11:42:06
Well, the session went great. The Skill Challenge worked out fairly well, but there were some players who couldn't offer as much input as they wanted, and i'm not sure how SC are supposed to handle this. Does everyone HAVE to participate, even if their chances of botching a roll are high? I really like the idea behind the challenges, but it seems to raise more questions than answers.

It's nice if everyone can participate as it make them feel like an important part of the game, for this reason it's suggested to make a variety of skills useful so everyone has a shot at success .
I'm not suggesting you didn't do this, but that maybe your players didn't try other skills besides the obvious. If it is a large issue I would suggest simply telling them to be creative and that lots of skills could be potentially relevant in the challenge for future reference.

If players are simply doing nothing instead of making attempts at it(either because they are unsure what to do or feel they are likely to grant a failure)
You can either grant a reward for participation(add to the xp value to the challenge if everyone participates each round), or punish the party for non-participation, each "skip my turn" counts as an automatic failure.

The failures might sting, but....
Everyone remembers occassions where Wart the Hideous; needed a 18+ to succeed on charming the duchess with his wit(diplomacy/bluff), but managed to succeed with his skill on the dancefloor (athletics giving a +2 circumstance bonus) and some witty reparte'. (Pulling a 20 out of his .....)

Hope this is of some use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zikadik Jul 10, 2008 12:43:15	Okay, i'm working a sidetrek/subplot into the campaign. We've only played once and the party is in Winterhaven. They've met a bunch of NPCs but not Ninaran, who i have decided will be a half elf confused and angry about her lineage. She thinks (perhaps it's true) that Lord Padraig raped/seduced an elf that became her mother. She questions all elves in Winterhaven if they are her real mother, to the point that everyone thinks she's pretty weird. Her anger and resentment as allowed her to be sucked into the cult of Orcus to gain revenge against Padraig, who may or may not be innocent. Anyway, there's an elf rogue in the party that i want Ninaran to have eyes for. She's obsessed with elves, and will question this dark character about what it's like to have untainted blood. Dunno where this will lead, maybe a romantic connection. I'm not playing Nin as pure evil, but shades of confused gray. Anyway, that's not even the side trek yet. We might be down to just one or two players this weekend, so i'm not diving into the adventure as written. Starting the scenario outlined above, there is also the other subplot of another character, Brandis Padraig, is at the house of his father Lord Padraig and his mourning mother. Kobolds killed their young son, and the mother Cynthia is mad with grief. In fact, she implores or son Brandis (the PC) to take as many kobold heads as they can find and mount them on the walls around the keep. Her own child's head was never found, just the corpse, hence her line of reasoning. She's gone sort of crazy like a Lady Macbeth. Anyway, that's only part of the side trek. Lord Padraig has been enlisting the help of Delphina Moongem, the elf wanderer, and the priestess of Sune (this is a FR adventure, loosely) to boil an herbal remedy to relax the mother. It is a mildly enchanted concoction, but the main ingredient is all gone. Snailwort only grows by moonlight on Jade Hill, about a mile outside of town. Delphina Moongem has the uncanny ability to not be accosted by evil things, at least that's the rumor around town. Delphina is like an elf hippie who is always spaced on something she picked. She's very nice, just flighty and tends to ramble about pretty things, butterflies, etc. Anyway, Padraig knows how dangerous the woods are getting and doesn't want Delphina going alone, despite how the luck of gods seems to shine on her. He's really worried about his wife and needs the sedative brewed. He thinks she's getting suicidal. SO...the PCs will go there, possibly accompanied by Ninaran who has a dark attachment to the elf rogue, and her obligation to Kalarel. Along the way they'll get attacked by rogue boars with saddles on their backs, from goblin riders who were killed in some other fashion. Once at Jade Hill Delphina starts gathering the herbs, but tonight under the full moon the borders between the Feywild and the Mortal Realm are thin, and from the shadows will emerge a parade of flickering faeries, soon followed by redcap and redscarf announcers, followed at last by the HUGE, burping, voluptuous Frog Queen. Long story short, i need a SKILL CHALLENGE for the Frog Queen encounter, but i'm not real clear on how to do this yet. So, that's why i wrote this thread, so some people can throw out some ideas. I do NOT want this to devolve into combat, the PCs are outnumbered and outclassed. Even failure will mean something minor, like their next attack that would hit misses, and vice versa if they win.
#2 nowiwantmydmg Jul 10, 2008 13:22:44	Here's a stab: Complexity 2: (6/3) Relevant skills: History -to recall a previous occurance where the frog queen emerged into the world and the consequences(if any) Also maybe used to determine what she was interested in in the past. Knowledge Arcana -to interpert the significance of the full moon, hill, (faerie ring on it?) and where the faeries emerge from Diplomacy/Bluff - to influence the frog queen to grant them the herbs they need(which are of course on her land). Bluff for flattery etc as if she is repugnent as suggested an attempt at sincerity is probably a lie. Intimidate = auto fail, she has a large retinue and has many sorcerous powers herself she is not scared of these bumpkins. Physical Skills The Frog Queen is not an ice maiden and finds feats of skill and body to be quite entertaining if properly performed. May be used for 1attempt. (Another use maybe used if it is being used for another purpose other than entertainment. Perception/Insight To observe/discern her nature and the parties bargaining position(fae hidden in the shadows). Challenge Success: The Frog Queen, not only allows the party to take the herbs, but has her assistants brew the elixir for the party. If she is particularly impressed or one of the group has struck her fancy she may offer other rewards(potion or 2, put in a good word with others of her kind etc.) Challenge Failure: The faeries brew the concotion for the party, but intentionally screw it up so let it causes side effects(up to you but lycanthropy or something strange would be cool). Alternatively the Frog Queen may begrudgingly allow the party to take the herbs, but demand a favor to be called in at a later date. Another possibility is that the party is granted the herbs but are made to take care of some young mischeivious faeries(who will pull pranks, misplace stuff and impede social encounters) for " a little while"(time being highly subject to a long lived extra planar race) Hope this helps in some way.
#3 zikadik Jul 10, 2008 13:44:10	Some good ideas there, thanks! As for the skills themselves, do i tell the PCs which ones to use, or are they supposed to figure it out themselves? Do they know the general range of the DCs, or is that secret? I haven't run many of the challenges and am slightly confused by them, although the concept seems great.
#4 nowiwantmydmg Jul 10, 2008 14:11:38	This is a bone of contention with many. Some say you should tell them(the book does as well), others say players should figure it out. I think my preferred way will be to just have the PC's tell me what they want to do(and if they suggest a skill that's fine too) or what they're doing and assign an appropriate skill based on that. Example: PC1: " I rack my brain to see if I can think of any mention of this Frog Queen in the past" DM: "Roll a history check" PC1: Rolls : 13 + 8 = 21. "Is 21 good enough?" DM: "You recall reading somewhere that she appears every 10 years on nights of the full moon. She had been gifted with precious minerals in the past which are reputedly rare in her realm". PC1: "Cool, I'll use that next turn"
#5 zikadik Jul 10, 2008 14:43:59	This is a bone of contention with many. Some say you should tell them(the book does as well), others say players should figure it out. I think my preferred way will be to just have the PC's tell me what they want to do(and if they suggest a skill that's fine too) or what they're doing and assign an appropriate skill based on that. Example: PC1: " I rack my brain to see if I can think of any mention of this Frog Queen in the past" DM: "Roll a history check" PC1: Rolls : 13 + 8 = 21. "Is 21 good enough?" DM: "You recall reading somewhere that she appears every 10 years on nights of the full moon. She had been gifted with precious minerals in the past which are reputedly rare in her realm". PC1: "Cool, I'll use that next turn" Okay, yeah, that's the route i think i'll go. Seems to encourage roleplaying too. Maybe even give a PC a slight circumstance bonus for a particularly clever argument.
#6 Eric888 Jul 10, 2008 15:41:05	Lord Padraig is just a sweet old family man. What are you doing, sullying the name of the good governor for?
#7 zikadik Jul 11, 2008 6:00:25	Lord Padraig is just a sweet old family man. What are you doing, sullying the name of the good governor for? Well, i haven't decided if he actually DID ** Ninaran's mother, or if she's just a nut and is blaming him. We'll see. Maybe it wasn't ** anyway, but consensual and he just didn't want any responsibility for the child. Just like the King from the Game of Throne books who sired a dozen kids but only took care of those born from the Queen.
#8 zikadik Jul 14, 2008 9:19:07	Well, the session went great. The Skill Challenge worked out fairly well, but there were some players who couldn't offer as much input as they wanted, and i'm not sure how SC are supposed to handle this. Does everyone HAVE to participate, even if their chances of botching a roll are high? I really like the idea behind the challenges, but it seems to raise more questions than answers.
#9 nowiwantmydmg Jul 14, 2008 11:42:06	Well, the session went great. The Skill Challenge worked out fairly well, but there were some players who couldn't offer as much input as they wanted, and i'm not sure how SC are supposed to handle this. Does everyone HAVE to participate, even if their chances of botching a roll are high? I really like the idea behind the challenges, but it seems to raise more questions than answers. It's nice if everyone can participate as it make them feel like an important part of the game, for this reason it's suggested to make a variety of skills useful so everyone has a shot at success . I'm not suggesting you didn't do this, but that maybe your players didn't try other skills besides the obvious. If it is a large issue I would suggest simply telling them to be creative and that lots of skills could be potentially relevant in the challenge for future reference. If players are simply doing nothing instead of making attempts at it(either because they are unsure what to do or feel they are likely to grant a failure) You can either grant a reward for participation(add to the xp value to the challenge if everyone participates each round), or punish the party for non-participation, each "skip my turn" counts as an automatic failure. The failures might sting, but.... Everyone remembers occassions where Wart the Hideous; needed a 18+ to succeed on charming the duchess with his wit(diplomacy/bluff), but managed to succeed with his skill on the dancefloor (athletics giving a +2 circumstance bonus) and some witty reparte'. (Pulling a 20 out of his .....) Hope this is of some use.