Lance and shield fighter feat - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Lance and shield fighter feat

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
alastersan_dup
Oct 10, 2008 19:06:22 I want to create a feat so i can use a spear, long spear or great spear with shield. This is my try:

Lance and Shield Fighter (heroic tier)
Prerequisites: Str 15, Dex 13, Shield Proficiency (Light)
Benefit: You can use light shields with any non double Spear weapon.

What do you think?
#2
wyld_mutation
Oct 11, 2008 12:50:10 You realize that a Javelin is basically a spear right?

Up to 17 Str, 15 Dex.

Beyond that: What feeling are you trying to capture?

The spears used in combat with shields were actually more akin to javelins (or that Superior Javelin in the AV). Actual spears are anti-cavalry weapons measuring something like 6-8 feet long.

Though I may be off, I'm pulling this off whatr I know about them and I'm not a spear-buff.
#3
alastersan_dup
Oct 11, 2008 13:30:45 I want to create a soldier with pike or spear like in the film 300 or like a Babylon Phalanx, or a knight with lance on a horse. More or less.
#4
wyld_mutation
Oct 11, 2008 13:54:01 The weapons wielded by the Spartans in the 300 are the superior javelins from the AV.

As for a Knight with a Lance... I'd say that's the superior javelin again. Or possibly an actual spear... A Spear is one handed, whereas a long spear is 2-Handed, and is far too unwieldy to hold in one hand. (Go find an 8 foot plank and lift it one handed...)

I don't mean to shoot down ideas, the feat is fine other than the requirements and that it should probably be paragon, but rather I'm trying to give you a way to capture the feel within the published rules.

And Knights had Heavy Shields when they charged (looks like heavy shields in all the depictions I've seen).

Edit: Knights used lances on horseback, making holding it in one hand much less awkward. I'd say that using a longspear one handed is possible on horseback automatically. However once you get off the hors you have to use both hands and ditch the shield.
#5
Lord_Ventnor
Oct 11, 2008 14:10:19 The Javelin, Tratnyr, and Spear are all spear-category weapons that can be used with a shield (unless you're a halfling. Then you're stuck with a Javelin).
#6
alastersan_dup
Oct 11, 2008 15:44:56 Please look at this picture and tell me with rules how can i do it?

http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~warfare/Lectures/Images/4.17/01_macedonian_phalanx.jpg

and this one

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_I0EkukpdWFk/SJtfCdMVFzI/AAAAAAAAApQ/FARXO7PqNgA/_MG_8862.jpg
#7
wyld_mutation
Oct 11, 2008 16:17:51 Macedonian picture: It's physically impossible to wield a 15' spear one-handed without outside help. Unless you're about 12 feet tall... and then it would still be hard as hell.

Joust picture: Jousting lances are designed for use on horseback... *quick research* and those shields are probably fastened to the armor istelf. Thus the spears would once again be all but useless one handed on foot.

Within the rules: Those pictures aren't gonna happen.

Outside the rules: ... In reality no knight uses a lance on foot, and the macedonians in that phalanx are using the people in front of them to brace the spears and are not using the spear by themselves. So technically neither way is getting a one hande spear fighter.

Now if you're going for spear and shield:

from 300: Use the Tratnyr or Javelin

Dragoon style: Use a spear (the simple weapon...)

If you want to describe the weapon as a 15 foot spear the rules say that you can. But if anyone you're playing with knows anything at all about physics they'll say something along the lines of "So... How are you actually holding it?" or "That isn't possible"
#8
alastersan_dup
Oct 11, 2008 17:05:34 From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarissa

The sarissa or sarisa (Greek: σάρισα) was a 4 to 7 meter (13-21 feet) long pike used in the ancient Greek and Hellenistic warfare.

More info about Sarissa aka Long Spear, http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/the-macedonian-phalanx/

Real Sarissa:
http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/sarissa1.jpg

They use Heavy Shields but i think is too much, so im trying to build a Long Spear fighter with shield but only Conan d20 have the feat to do it.
#9
wyld_mutation
Oct 11, 2008 17:22:19 So how do you propose you wield a 17 foot spear in one hand?

They used it in a phalanx. With special shields. And special training so that they didn't stab each other.

I mean if you want to do it your feat will work... Vut a 17 foot spear is just not physically capable of being utilized one handed.
#10
alastersan_dup
Oct 11, 2008 17:35:45 Not that one just the long Spear 10' on the Players Handbook, my question is that overpowered?

You say you need special training, that is what i want to do with the feat.

Is not one handed, the shield is hooked to the left hand and they use that hand with the spear, thats why i say non double, just piercing weapons i mean.
Not sure if you undestand me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 alastersan_dup Oct 10, 2008 19:06:22	I want to create a feat so i can use a spear, long spear or great spear with shield. This is my try: Lance and Shield Fighter (heroic tier) Prerequisites: Str 15, Dex 13, Shield Proficiency (Light) Benefit: You can use light shields with any non double Spear weapon. What do you think?
#2 wyld_mutation Oct 11, 2008 12:50:10	You realize that a Javelin is basically a spear right? Up to 17 Str, 15 Dex. Beyond that: What feeling are you trying to capture? The spears used in combat with shields were actually more akin to javelins (or that Superior Javelin in the AV). Actual spears are anti-cavalry weapons measuring something like 6-8 feet long. Though I may be off, I'm pulling this off whatr I know about them and I'm not a spear-buff.
#3 alastersan_dup Oct 11, 2008 13:30:45	I want to create a soldier with pike or spear like in the film 300 or like a Babylon Phalanx, or a knight with lance on a horse. More or less.
#4 wyld_mutation Oct 11, 2008 13:54:01	The weapons wielded by the Spartans in the 300 are the superior javelins from the AV. As for a Knight with a Lance... I'd say that's the superior javelin again. Or possibly an actual spear... A Spear is one handed, whereas a long spear is 2-Handed, and is far too unwieldy to hold in one hand. (Go find an 8 foot plank and lift it one handed...) I don't mean to shoot down ideas, the feat is fine other than the requirements and that it should probably be paragon, but rather I'm trying to give you a way to capture the feel within the published rules. And Knights had Heavy Shields when they charged (looks like heavy shields in all the depictions I've seen). Edit: Knights used lances on horseback, making holding it in one hand much less awkward. I'd say that using a longspear one handed is possible on horseback automatically. However once you get off the hors you have to use both hands and ditch the shield.
#5 Lord_Ventnor Oct 11, 2008 14:10:19	The Javelin, Tratnyr, and Spear are all spear-category weapons that can be used with a shield (unless you're a halfling. Then you're stuck with a Javelin).
#6 alastersan_dup Oct 11, 2008 15:44:56	Please look at this picture and tell me with rules how can i do it? http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~warfare/Lectures/Images/4.17/01_macedonian_phalanx.jpg and this one http://lh6.ggpht.com/_I0EkukpdWFk/SJtfCdMVFzI/AAAAAAAAApQ/FARXO7PqNgA/_MG_8862.jpg
#7 wyld_mutation Oct 11, 2008 16:17:51	Macedonian picture: It's physically impossible to wield a 15' spear one-handed without outside help. Unless you're about 12 feet tall... and then it would still be hard as hell. Joust picture: Jousting lances are designed for use on horseback... quick research and those shields are probably fastened to the armor istelf. Thus the spears would once again be all but useless one handed on foot. Within the rules: Those pictures aren't gonna happen. Outside the rules: ... In reality no knight uses a lance on foot, and the macedonians in that phalanx are using the people in front of them to brace the spears and are not using the spear by themselves. So technically neither way is getting a one hande spear fighter. Now if you're going for spear and shield: from 300: Use the Tratnyr or Javelin Dragoon style: Use a spear (the simple weapon...) If you want to describe the weapon as a 15 foot spear the rules say that you can. But if anyone you're playing with knows anything at all about physics they'll say something along the lines of "So... How are you actually holding it?" or "That isn't possible"
#8 alastersan_dup Oct 11, 2008 17:05:34	From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarissa The sarissa or sarisa (Greek: σάρισα) was a 4 to 7 meter (13-21 feet) long pike used in the ancient Greek and Hellenistic warfare. More info about Sarissa aka Long Spear, http://scottthong.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/the-macedonian-phalanx/ Real Sarissa: http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/sarissa1.jpg They use Heavy Shields but i think is too much, so im trying to build a Long Spear fighter with shield but only Conan d20 have the feat to do it.
#9 wyld_mutation Oct 11, 2008 17:22:19	So how do you propose you wield a 17 foot spear in one hand? They used it in a phalanx. With special shields. And special training so that they didn't stab each other. I mean if you want to do it your feat will work... Vut a 17 foot spear is just not physically capable of being utilized one handed.
#10 alastersan_dup Oct 11, 2008 17:35:45	Not that one just the long Spear 10' on the Players Handbook, my question is that overpowered? You say you need special training, that is what i want to do with the feat. Is not one handed, the shield is hooked to the left hand and they use that hand with the spear, thats why i say non double, just piercing weapons i mean. Not sure if you undestand me.