Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 morandir62 Aug 11, 2008 20:56:22	The common tongue is a lingua franca which is any language widely used beyond the population of its native speakers. Any given language normally becomes a lingua franca primarily by being used for international commerce, but can be accepted in other cultural exchanges, especially diplomacy. But what of the tongue of other nations and creature cultures? What do they look and sound like? This is from the table I give my characters, they speak Common, Nerathian or their racial tongue. Languages were chosen based on their scripts and cultural groups for my campaign. I would like to hear input & critiques. How do you handle languages in your worlds? The subheadings are a. Sounds Like, b. Written, and c. other information. 1. Abyssal a. Byblos b. Byblos c. Abyssal Planes & Demonic Scripts 2. Ancient Turathian a. Etruscan b. Etruscan c. Dead and Magical Text. The Language of the fallen Republic of Bael Turath 3. Atruaghin a. Ojibwe b. Pictographic c. Hill Clans. Think Native American 4. Celestial a. Supernal b. Hebrew c. Upper Planes & Divine Scripts 5. Common, Aztlán a. Nahuatl b. Pictographic c. Think Mayan 6. Common, Arkhosian a. Pakistan/Arabic b. Devanagari c. Think desert nomads 7. Common, Eranga a. Kenzi/Dongolawi b. Coptic c. Kenzi is spoken primarily south of Nithia, dongolawi is spoken in the slaves of the fallen Empire of Nithia 8. Common, Turathian a. Spanish/Italian b. Latin c. Modern Turathian by conquered nations and slaves 9. Common, Nerathian a. Anglo-Saxon b. English c. Basically any northern European Culture 10. Common, Nithian a. Egyptian b. Coptic/Hieroglyphs c. Hieroglyphs are ancient Nithian 11. Common, Under a. Deep Speech b. Rellanic c. Aberrant tongue of the Masters of the Far Realm 12. Draconic, High a. Akkadian b. Akkadian c. Also ancient Dragonborn 13. Dragonborn a. 3 Kingdoms b. Devanagari c. Hindi-Chinese-Japanese cultural mix 14. Drow a. Welsh b. Rellanic 15. Druidic a. Old Celtic b. Ogham c. An ancient language and the root of all Fey creature’s languages 16. Dwarven a. German/Scottish b. Davek c. Old Teutonic 17. Eladrin a. Gaelic b. Rellanic 18. Elven a. Irish b. Rellanic 19. Giantish a. Primordial (abyssal) b. Davek 20. Gnollish a. Kiswahili b. None 21. Goblinoid a. Turkish b. Davek/Cyrillic 22. Halfling a. Cajun b. French c. Were halflings use to be farmers and lovers of food and drink, they have now become riverfolk and marsh dwellers. 23. Infernal a. Venetic b. Venetic c. Lower Planes & Unholy Scripts 24. Kobold a. Persian (Iokharic) b. Devanagari 25. Orcish a. Russian b. Cyrillic 26. Saurial a. Javanese (Iokharic) b. Devanagari 27. Sylvan a. Celtic b. Rellanic 28. Tiefling a. Italian/Spanish b. Latin c. Modern Turathian used by Tieflings
#2 leowulf Aug 11, 2008 22:15:19	I like what you've done in relating your setting languages to real-world languages. I've done the same, but with much fewer languages, both because I'm using only languages with which I'm comfortable, and because I do like the idea of limiting the number of languages PC's will encounter in play. 28 Languages is a lot; it's almost 3 times as many languages as 4e uses. This might affect PC's in the same way as including the vast amount of skills PC's could have chosen in 3e. It does provide variety, but without some coaching, PC's might be totally unprepared for what languages they "should" have chosen. I do think that extra languages is a Good Thing. It helps personalize your setting and include something unusual and fun for the PC's to discover. Maybe a good way to do this is with dialects. For example, Draconic is a vastly used language in my setting, but the Draconic that is used in Arcane Universities is different from the Draconic that, for example the Dragonborn use, and that is different from that which the Kobolds and their allies use. And that is different from the Draconic used by Metallic Dragons, which is also different from that of Chromatic Dragons. But for play purposes, it's all Draconic. A Human wizard trained in Draconic can understand Red Dragons as easily as she could understand her Dragonborn friend. But I would fluff that by telling the wizard that the Kobold speaks in a low, almost gutter-slang of Draconic, or I'd say that the inscription the Dragonborn PC is reading on the wall is written in the flowing, ornate Draconic that his ancient mentor said was used by Metallic Dragons when they ruled the world, over 3 millenia ago. That way, PC's don't have to take multiple feats to understand the languages they'll meet in play, but the world still has a rich linguistic tapestry.
#3 morandir62 Aug 12, 2008 3:10:17	Thanks for the critique I thought I would explain my reasoning behind the 28 languages I’ve listed. True that may seem like a lot [1st ed had 52 + human foreign or other], but you will also note that seven of them are common human tongues, three are planar tongues [of use to clerics and those dealing with planar inhabitants], and the rest are racial. Characters start with their Racial + Common, if Common is their racial tongue they speak one other. For ease they are suggested to take the Common tongue of the region they begin in - some do not claiming their character’s background did not allow for it. This becomes part of the character’s uniqueness and leads to multiple paths of opportunity for them, the party, and me. If as in my world [14,105 miles across] your characters travel far and wide they should meet new groups of people they can not talk to, without the aide of a guide or interpreter [who they may or may not trust] or use the Comprehend Language ritual [which last for 24 hours]. Burning a feat for linguist [3 new languages] that is the characters decision, as they can normal find a trader, merchant, or sailor that can speak other languages, but a role-playing character can normally except that as a means to broaden the characters scope and role in the world. My languages also have a common root structure, which I would allow for a skill challenge [3-5 complexity] to unravel its understanding for XP. Most notable are the: Tiefling - Turathian, Common - Turathian, Ancient - Infernal chain Draconic, High - Dragonborn - Arkhosian - Kobold - Saurial chain, Dwarven - Nerathian, Common Druid - Sylvan - Eladrin - Elven - Drow chain Even in Colorado I’m sure [because I’ve been there and 41 other states] that you come across more than just the English, but also Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Farsi and Hindi. Not to mention other European visitors languages at airports, ski resorts, and National Parks. Not to mention the Ute or Cheyenne Indians in that region. I also speak only English, it is the language which I’m familiar with [yet always corrected on], but I have seen and heard enough other languages to know what they sound like and that the world is not small [despite what Disney thinks] it has 11-14 lingua franca and about 6 common scripts, not to mention the hundreds of other national languages. We also have 23 Classical [dead] languages, most of which were common tongue back in early ages [less than 3 millennia ago]. A modern example is the word Howe written in Latin script. It means Hollowin Scotland but Hillin the United Kingdom and comes from a old norse word Haugrmeanging Mound.
here. theninjad Aug 12, 2008 16:13:30	That adds variety and detail and I like that much of it. Unless your world is massive or very 'points of light', though, that seems like a lot of languages. Not to say mine is any better but I will post what I have made for my setting here just to show a different take on it. This is also going to be copied and pasted from where I posted it first at the CBG, only slightly modified. The discussion link in it goes to that site. On Languages and Language Dialects of the Island Continent The many and diverse inhabitants of the island continent speak almost as many different languages. Today more languages are spoken there than at any other time during the course of history. It is easy for the trained ear of a skilled linguist to identify that most of these languages, while spoken by different peoples in different environments, have descended through time from a much smaller number of root languages. The changes have taken place gradually, influenced by countless factors, but the result is a peculiar one. It is common for people of two distinct cultures, who speak very differently from one another, to need to communicate. When these people speak dialects of the same root language it is quite possible, though with a little difficulty. Sometimes different pronunciations for like words are used and slang is an ever present problem. However, with a little effort, successful communications can be achieved. What This Means Distinct language dialects will be considered their own unique languages. Each language will now also be given a root language. When two individuals attempt to communicate using different languages that share a common root language, they are able to do so, only with some difficulty. This difficulty is represented by a -4 penalty on skill checks for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Insight. This -4 penalty will also be applied to Intimidate and Streetwise skill checks that are made involving verbal communication (such as making verbal threats, gathering information, ect...). When two individuals attempt to communicate using different languages that do not share a common root language, the results are the same as normal (no language-based verbal communication is possible). On some occasions, differences in the way of speaking may vary even within the same language dialect. This is due mostly to slang that is used in on settlement or region but not in another. In most situations, this is easy to work past. However, in extreme situations, this may also cause a penalty to Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, and even Intimidate or Streetwise. This is to be done at DM's discretion but the penalty should never exceed -2. Version 1.1 Discussion of this should be directed here.
#5 leowulf Aug 12, 2008 21:02:05	My languages also have a common root structure, which I would allow for a skill challenge [3-5 complexity] to unravel its understanding for XP. Most notable are the: Tiefling - Turathian, Common - Turathian, Ancient - Infernal chain Draconic, High - Dragonborn - Arkhosian - Kobold - Saurial chain, Dwarven - Nerathian, Common Druid - Sylvan - Eladrin - Elven - Drow chain Even in Colorado I’m sure [because I’ve been there and 41 other states] that you come across more than just the English, but also Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Farsi and Hindi. Not to mention other European visitors languages at airports, ski resorts, and National Parks. Not to mention the Ute or Cheyenne Indians in that region. Definitely - as well as ASL among the deaf/hard-of-hearing. Lots of languages do make for verisimilitude. BTW - I love the skill challenge thing to make out languages. I'm going to steal that for deciphering an ancient inscription - and maybe another one later for communicating with The Mummy who speaks only that language. I'll have to keep the Comprehend Languages ritual out of play until after then.
#6 dragonflame Aug 12, 2008 21:27:49	The common tongue is a lingua franca which is any language widely used beyond the population of its native speakers. Any given language normally becomes a lingua franca primarily by being used for international commerce, but can be accepted in other cultural exchanges, especially diplomacy. But what of the tongue of other nations and creature cultures? What do they look and sound like? This is from the table I give my characters, they speak Common, Nerathian or their racial tongue. Languages were chosen based on their scripts and cultural groups for my campaign. I would like to hear input & critiques. How do you handle languages in your worlds? Why... Language Maker, of course.... http://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Home-Education/LangMaker.shtml
#7 degausser Aug 12, 2008 21:37:51	My view of languages is as follows: A language may have a common alphabet, but each creature should have a 'native' language. I can understand wanting to cut down the languages to make it easier, but some of the cuts don't make ANY sense. The Githzerai and the Githyanki both know Deeptouge, because it was the language that the Illithids used when they were slaves, THREE THOUSAND YEARS AGO! are you telling me that the language hasn't changed at all while the 'zerai and the 'yanki grew far enough apart to be considered seperate species? Who came up with that one? The Elvish people and the Eladrin likewise split eons ago, meaning they should at least have a very different Dialect from each other. Again, Dragonborn and Dragons split eons ago, so THEY should have, at the very least, different dialects. The Demons and Devils (Tana'ri and Baazatu for us old schoolers) used to fight in the blood war, an ancient battle of epic proportions between the Lawful evil and the Chaotic evil denizens of the deep. The book keeps the seperation, so I doubt they'd speak the same language.
#8 yellowdingo Aug 13, 2008 20:39:21	GITHYANKI DICTIONARY: "UN'KCATCA'UNKA" pronounced four hundred different ways...sounds like they are singing.
#9 degausser Aug 13, 2008 20:49:26	GITHYANKI DICTIONARY: "UN'KCATCA'UNKA" pronounced four hundred different ways...sounds like they are singing. The real question is "can they stop this feeling" deep inside of them?
#10 morandir62 Aug 14, 2008 14:06:40	The Demons and Devils (Tana'ri and Baazatu for us old schoolers) used to fight in the blood war, an ancient battle of epic proportions between the Lawful evil and the Chaotic evil denizens of the deep. The book keeps the seperation, so I doubt they'd speak the same language. Demons and Devils for us ancient schoolers [31 years and still counting] ;)