Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pyromancer999 Oct 04, 2008 10:39:15	One of my players isn't that satisfied with only ONE multi-classing feat. When I told him it wasn't allowed by the rules, he suggested this idea: Lesson Feats Lesson feats are similar to multi-classing feas in that they allow a player to gain some ability of the other class it is for. However, this benefit is relatively minor, perhaps granting some minor skill, profiency, or maybe even a minor class feature. In game terms, the player's character has studied a little bit (for maybe one lesson, hence the name), and learned a little bit from it. Here are some Lesson feats he came up with: Student of the Curse (lesson Warlock) Prerequisite: Con or Cha 11 Benefit: You may use Warlock's Curse once per encounter. The bonus is always +1d6. Student of the Blade (Lesson Fighter) Prerequisite: Str 11 Benefit: Gain proficiency with one weapon from the Fighter list of weapon proficiency. You may gain a +1 bonus to damage with that weapon once per day. Spell-touched Student (Lesson Wizard) Prerequisite: Int 11 Benefit: Gain the use of 1 cantrip. Tricky One (Lesson Rogue) Prerequisite: Dex 11 Benefit: You gain profiency with the dagger if you do not already, and once per day, you gain a +1 to damage rolls when attacking with a dagger. Is this balanced? I will wait for some feedback before I post more.
#2 pyromancer999 Oct 04, 2008 11:29:41	Any comments?
#3 aluman Oct 04, 2008 14:47:55	One of my players isn't that satisfied with only ONE multi-classing feat. When I told him it wasn't allowed by the rules, he suggested this idea: Lesson Feats Lesson feats are similar to multi-classing feas in that they allow a player to gain some ability of the other class it is for. However, this benefit is relatively minor, perhaps granting some minor skill, profiency, or maybe even a minor class feature. In game terms, the player's character has studied a little bit (for maybe one lesson, hence the name), and learned a little bit from it. Here are some Lesson feats he came up with: Student of the Curse (lesson Warlock) Prerequisite: Con or Cha 11 Benefit: You may use Warlock's Curse once per encounter. Choose a pact. If an enemy under you Warlock's curse falls to 0 hit points, you gain that pact's pact boon. This may only be used once per day. This basically make it where with Pact Initiate, I can have full curse ability. This in turn detracts from the Warlock class. Student of the Blade (Lesson Fighter) Prerequisite: Str 11 Benefit: Gain proficiency with one weapon from the Fighter list of weapon proficiency. You may gain a +1 bonus with that weapon once per day. Oddity: Fighter selecting this feat can get +2 to with an attack 1/day. Probably not broken, maybe state 'not a fighter' as a prerquisite. Spell-touched Student (Lesson Wizard) Prerequisite: Int 11 Benefit: Gain the use of 1 cantrip. Again, this is a power that the mulitclass feat doesn't grant...probably not a big deal (I think the gnoll article has one similar) Tricky One (Lesson Rogue) Prerequisite: Dex 11 Benefit: You gain profiency with the dagger if you do not already, and when you wield one, the die size increases by one. No. Rogues don't get to increase the dagger size, neither should non-rogues who train as rogues. Is this balanced? I will wait for some feedback before I post more. My response.
#4 rowl Oct 05, 2008 0:51:48	I agree with Aluman for the most part. The Warlock lesson is too strong. Limit to simply Curse 1/e which expires at the end of your next turn, like the Ranger MC feat for HQ and take out all the Pact stuff and I think it will be sufficient. The Fighter Lesson, assuming like MC feats a Fighter can't take it, is a little weak. A rewording might be "Benefit: Gain proficiency with one weapon from the Fighter list of weapon proficiency. You may gain a +1 bonus with that weapon for the duration of the encounter or 5min (whichever is less) once per day." Wiz Lesson ok. Rogue Lesson change to Shuriken and would fit better. Like Aluman said, Rogues don't get the benefit you noted with Daggers, but they do get it with Shurikens. I think it's an interesting idea, but should be limited the same way MC feats are. You may only have 1 MC feat and not from your own class, you may only have 1 Lesson feat and not from your own class... alternately, you can select a second Lesson feat instead of an MC feat, but you may no longer take an MC feat unless you retrain out one of your lesson feats.
#5 pyromancer999 Oct 05, 2008 12:22:16	ummmm.... the curse IS 1/encounter. also, forgot to mention: you may not select the Lesson feat for your class, or one that you have multi-classed into.
#6 rowl Oct 06, 2008 5:07:01	ummmm.... the curse IS 1/encounter. also, forgot to mention: you may not select the Lesson feat for your class, or one that you have multi-classed into. I said SIMPLY limit it to Curse 1/e, nothing more- meaning drop all the Pact stuff, which I also noted.
#7 pyromancer999 Oct 06, 2008 14:09:24	Fine. It is done
#8 pyromancer999 Oct 07, 2008 14:59:32	Does anyone else have comments on these feats?
#9 pyromancer999 Oct 08, 2008 14:47:00	Anyone?
#10 sphyre Oct 09, 2008 0:12:34	I would suggest editing the original post with the restriction that lesson feats cannot be taken by characters of the class or multiclass. As such, these feats, since they can be taken by anyone but members of that class or multiclass can take them, without any other restrictions, they should be weaker feats than the initial multiclass feats to begin with, but also useful enough to pick. This is going to be a pretty difficult task. Student of the Curse (lesson Warlock) Prerequisite: Con or Cha 11 Benefit: You may use Warlock's Curse once per encounter. 1d6/2d6/3d6 extra damage vs one foe an encounter? That's stronger than the Ranger multiclass feat. And anyone not a warlock/multiclass warlock can take it. Turns anyone into a striker, and strikers much more so. Definitely overpowered. The only redeeming grace this has, is that you can't have multiple curses on an opponent, so only one person gets the bonus damage. Student of the Blade (Lesson Fighter) Prerequisite: Str 11 Benefit: Gain proficiency with one weapon from the Fighter list of weapon proficiency. You may gain a +1 bonus with that weapon once per day. +1 bonus to what? Attack rolls? Damage rolls? Both? Cow rolls with the weapon? With that feat you could just take a superior weapon and get higher damage or a higher proficiency bonus than what you normally have. Underpowered. Spell-touched Student (Lesson Wizard) Prerequisite: Int 11 Benefit: Gain the use of 1 cantrip. I know a lot of people who would take this for RP reasons. Given there are relatively cheap magic items that grant use of these, this might be a little weak. Tricky One (Lesson Rogue) Prerequisite: Dex 11 Benefit: You gain profiency with the dagger if you do not already, and when you wield one, the die size increases by one. This doesn't make sense. Rogues don't even get that bonus to die size; they get +1 to hit with them. Bad feat, even if you give the bonus to hit, because rogues are supposed to be the only class that can get +4 proficiency because of their small damage die and weapon restrictions.
#11 pyromancer999 Oct 10, 2008 14:22:12	okay, they're revised. Anyone else wish to comment? also, I'm taking requests for Lesson feats for any class, inclduing homebrew ones.
#12 sphyre Oct 13, 2008 0:22:51	Student of the Curse (lesson Warlock) Prerequisite: Con or Cha 11 Benefit: You may use Warlock's Curse once per encounter. Treat yourself as a warlock 1/3 your level, minum being 1. So the maximum level you are is 30, so you can be treated as level 10 at 30th level, meaning you still deal 1d6 damage. Why not say "You may use the warlock's curse once per encounter. It's bonus damage dealt is always 1d6, and never levels up for paragon or epic tier." Even then +3.5 avg damage per round that you hit vs one foe is leaps and bounds higher than everything else here, especially your lesson feats for the fighter and rogue.
#13 pyromancer999 Oct 13, 2008 8:08:42	ok, sphyre I sort of get your point. but where do you get the +3.5 bonus from?
#14 sphyre Oct 18, 2008 14:23:52	ok, sphyre I sort of get your point. but where do you get the +3.5 bonus from? The average damage of a d6 is 3.5 damage. To calculate average value, you add up the possible results weighted by how likely each result is. But since dice have increments of 1 starting at 1 and going to the number of sides they have they follow a specific subset of running the average, that a quick trick formula works on them, which is (sides of the die + 1)/2. basically, since a d6 can deal 1-6 damage on a given chance, it'll on average deal 3.5 damage over the course of giving damage. It'll never actually deal 3.5 damage on a given turn, but if you deal 3 damage on one turn, and 4 damage on the next turn, it has dealt 7 damage in 2 turns, which is an average of 3.5 bonus in damage per turn.
#15 pyromancer999 Oct 19, 2008 9:48:33	Ah, I see
#16 billthemaniac Oct 19, 2008 21:05:14	ranger MC grants a trained skill. These feats all look way underpowered.
#17 pyromancer999 Oct 20, 2008 15:46:24	Bill, read what it says. These are SUPPOSED to be weakly powered. and they're not multi-class
#18 sphyre Oct 20, 2008 18:07:27	even if they are supposed to be weak feats, they still should carry enough incentive to use them or they'll never be picked. Feats are a resource. It's not like you'll pick up Tricky One when you could just take Weapon Focus.
#19 billthemaniac Oct 20, 2008 20:38:37	Bill, read what it says. These are SUPPOSED to be weakly powered. and they're not multi-class I thought someone said that the warlock was better then ranger MC - I pointed out rMC gave Perception.
#20 pyromancer999 Oct 21, 2008 16:16:38	In any case, people may refit them as they may. I'm just putting the idea out there