Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 reversecausality Oct 10, 2008 11:19:56	The normal rules give you three things when you start at level L: a magic item of level L, a magic item of level L+1, a magic item of level L-1, and gold equal to a magic item L-1. It's a cute idea but to me it seems unrealistic. I hereby propose a better system: actually doing the math for how much various treasure is earned at various levels and going by that. For example, at level 1 you get 100 gold. The treasure listed on 126 DMG for a party of 5 characters equals 3,760 gp.(Calculating the gp value of all the magic items.) Divide that by 5 and you get 752. Add on the 100 gold from before and you get 852. While not an exact amount, 852 is much closer to the treasure owned by a level 2 party member than the (360+360+520+680) 1920 gp. This method also sharply declines as you go higher and higher in level. Admittedly, this suggested system does not account for potions or other used items, resurrections or the like. Also, the gp value means that you get to buy whatever you like. While this may seem odd to some, consider that the DM is supposed to focus on items beneficial to the party. It can be easily believed that the players will likewise pick out items beneficial to their own characters. Thoughts/suggestions/criticisms appreciated.
#2 ace_of_time Oct 16, 2008 17:39:03	720 gp worth of stuff over say 9 encounters = 6,480. Divide that by 5 and you get 1,236 gp per person at 2nd level. You can do this for each level. instead of the other method. Also, I looked back and all I see is 2 people I didn't agree with me, one was you and the other was the poster that just keep saying NEW Edition. In fact I have been nice I even plan to post the math on the system so people can use it instead. If I make a thread and nobody post but those who disagree with me I could see where you are coming from. As it is That is only 2 posters that are really arguing. The rest are being helpful to which I say thanks. Now as for the math here it is. Seems a bit much to me. 2nd. 1,920 3rd. 2,560 4th. 3,200 5th. 4,480 6th. 7,200 7th. 9,600 8th. 12,800 9th. 16,000 10. 22,400 11th. 32,000 12th. 48,000 13th. 64,000 14th. 80,000 15th. 112,000 16th. 160,000 17th. 240,000 18th. 330,000 19th. 410,000 20th. 570,000 21st. 810,000 22th. 1,210,000 23rd. 1,610,000 24th. 2,010,000 25th. 2,810,000 26th. 4,000,000 27th. 6,000,000 28th. 8,000,000 29th.10,000,000 I did like this. (level -1 times 2)+level+ level+1= starting gold. The jump from 100 gp to 1,900 bothers me alittle. Someone can check my math if they like. Two eyes are better then one. Thanks. Remember they also get their level worth of magic item in gp as well as they items their selves. But selling those items of for the gold would only get 1/5th so some would say that they should only start with 832gp. But I would go with the 1236 and take off 20% for potion and the like and start them with 990gp rounded up for an even number. This would be. Treasure parcel at X level times 9 divide by 5 party members then take off 20% for used items, food, room and board, and the like.
#3 yamishinobi Oct 16, 2008 19:08:20	1 magic items of level +1 1 of level 1 of level - 1 gold equal to level -1, 3 trinkets and some money. you forgot the third magic item.
#4 reversecausality Oct 17, 2008 7:46:17	Well, this verifies my point even further. Let's say that a group of five have worked together to get from level 1 to level 2. Four of them will probably have one magic item each and the fifth with none, and 720 gold divided between the five of them across the entire level. That's 144. In the exquisitely unlikely assumption that absolutely nothing of the original 100 gold they got was spent, that's 244 gold with a magic item of levels 0, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Now that everyone is level 2, a sixth person suddenly meanders along. This person starts at level 2 with L2 equipment, a magic item of each of levels 1-3 and 360 gold. What the crap?
#5 reversecausality Oct 17, 2008 7:59:58	Btw, Ace, I think your math is wrong for your initial post to me. That 720 gold is given out over the course of an entire level, not every encounter. However, I see five fixes for this aforementioned problem of the rich L2 coming to play. -Force every character who comes in to start at level 1. This gets to be just plain cruel when the rest of the group is epic. -Set milestones for what levels start at level 1 and what levels get to catch up with the party moneywise. Just as cruel in its arbitrary unfairness. -Give level 1 characters a magic item of level 1 and of level 2 just to balance out the inevitable higher level characters. -Never let any other characters in. I don't need to tell you how this goes bad. -Actually create a system which is fair at higher levels for starting gold. I'm trying to do that last one. Other than my initial suggestion, does anyone have any ideas?
#6 billthemaniac Oct 17, 2008 13:37:57	RC's math is right, the other dude's math is wrong. so ... is there anyone here who's not too lazy to do the math?
#7 ace_of_time Oct 19, 2008 0:50:28	sorry I miss read the book. Note: With the top part of the post aside the point at the bottom is still a good one. They are going by selling value when figuring wealth. In the example give by the OP the DMG4e ways they would really lose about 100 gp for the party. Sell value for the items give at 2nd and gold= 832 Value given by level by DM = 852 Total difference =20 times 5 party members = 100gp