Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dreamstryder Dec 12, 2009 13:35:44	Even if you don't play Final Fantasy, releasing pent-up energy in a spectacular display can't be very unfamiliar to any video game players... or people with dysfunctional relations. In any case, I'm throwing this out there, designed with fun at the forefront. I figure two things: 1. This might help groups who find 4e monster HP too puffy/chewy/a bog-down, moreso if they apply the "higher-powered option" below. 2. Balance is only as good as it makes the game fun. Away we go! Once per encounter, you may spend 3 AP to perform your limit break (a standard action). This counts as an AP usage for the encounter. Construct your limit break using one part A and one part B. You may reconstruct your limit break during an extended rest. Some parts require you spend AP in excess of 3. A. Area/Targets 1. (+1 AP) Area burst equal to your level within 10; all enemies or allies within 2. Area blast equal to your level within 10; all enemies or allies within 3. (+1 AP) Close burst equal to your level; all enemies or allies within 4. Close blast equal to your level; all enemies or allies within 5. Ranged 10; one target. Double part B's numerics. 6. Melee. One target. Triple part B's numerics. B. Effect 1. Each target takes damage equal to your level x10. 2. Each target heals damage equal to your level x10. 3. Each target gets +1 on a single d20 roll of their choosing upon using it until the end of your next turn. Attack, save, or all defenses. 4. Each target gets -1 on a single type of your choosing upon limit-breaking until the end of your next turn. Attack, save, or all defenses For a higher-powered option: During combat, you gain one AP per non-minion enemy you reduced from full hp to bloodied or below in one attack (Twin Strike and other attacks wherein you make multiple strikes are still one attack).
#2 pigfiend Dec 13, 2009 11:36:28	I think you'd need that high-powered option to make accrueing three action points viable. Or have a game full of 'easy milestones' through simple skill challenges and the like. I'm apt to say that this occupies a similar space to dailies, don't you think? Maybe limit breaks should exist instead of daily powers, useable only with action points but potentially used in a day as many times as you have AP to spend. Then stagger the limit breaks to do similar things for 1st and 9th level but wholely different for 5th so there's reasons to use one or the other. A controller might have 1st and 9th level limit breaks that are big area attacks but a 5th that really hampers a single target.
#3 Chimerasame Dec 14, 2009 0:01:15	I think it would make a lot of sense to have something somewhat weaker (on the level of a good encounter power), but that you can use after using, say, 5 at-will standard action attack powers during one encounter. This would somewhat address the issue that the end of encounters tend to become at-will slugfests. Your idea sounds alright, but I'm not sure if it would add very much to the game beyond what dailies already do--plus, without your high-powered option, I think it's exceptionally uncommon that anyone would have 3 action points available. Setting aside the "adroit explorer" PP, you'd have to be in your fifth encounter and you'd have to have used none of them, which would be quite unusual--speaking personally I can't even remember the last time we had five encounters in a day, and even if we did, I don't think I've ever had two APs at once; I either use one up in the first or second encounter, then get the second and use it up soon too... If you want to simulate attacks even stronger than dailies, I think it would make sense to have a new mechanic that basically resets on a per-adventure basis (the DM can just adjudicate when it 'recharges' so to speak.) If the idea is to simulate the "limit break" mechanic of console RPGs, then I'd go with something that 'charges up' more quickly--donno exactly what'd be good, but if I were going to do it, I'd do it based on standard-action-at-will-use.
#4 slobo777a Dec 14, 2009 5:12:52	I think it would make a lot of sense to have something somewhat weaker (on the level of a good encounter power), but that you can use after using, say, 5 at-will standard action attack powers during one encounter. This would somewhat address the issue that the end of encounters tend to become at-will slugfests. Now *that* I like . . . save up your At-Will vouchers . . . for every 3 At-Will Standards, get one Encounter power back free! . . . though of course by that stage the Rubicon's been somewhat crossed.
#5 heathan_v20 Dec 19, 2009 18:34:27	I like this idea alot, I agree make them between the power of an encounter and at-will power, and you could make it where they get a "limit break" every so many uses of an At-will. You can also set up feats to trigger their "Limit Breaks" like on a crit, natural 1, downed opponent, etc. I also like the idea of you modifying the Limit Breaks with Action Points. All of these could take a note from the Psionic Classes and Power Points if you ask my oppinion. Look at level 1 with spending 1 Power Point and see how it changes the power. That is the level of power a Limit Break should be on (Psions and Ardents have 2 Power Points, which means by spending 2 Power Points on an At-Will it should be on par with a normal classes Encounter powers). Also Limit Breaks don't have to be just attack powers I think they could be like boosted version of class abilities, etc. As far as how many limit breaks I say 3 scattered out between 1-10, and then in paragon and epic you exchange them for more powerful limit breaks.
#6 heathan_v20 Dec 20, 2009 9:34:10	Here is an example of a Limit Breaks for Wizards (yes these are based on at-wills): SHREDDING MIST                  Wizard Limit Break 1 Limit Breat * Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action                      Area 1 within 10 squares. Target: Each creature in the area Attack: Intelligence vs Reflex Hit: 1d6+Intelligence modifier Force damage. Increase damage to 2d6+Intelligence modifier Force damage. Effect: The cloud is filled with a fine mist of razor sharp force energy. Any creature that enters the area or starts its turn there takes force damage equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The cloud remains in place until the end of your next turn. You can dispel it earlier as a minor action. Pyroclastic Detonation           Wizard Limit Break 1 Limit Breat * Arcane, Fire, Implement Standard Action                      Area 1 within 10 squares. Target: Each creature in the area Attack: Intelligence vs Reflex Hit: 2d6+Intelligence modifier Fire damage. Increase damage to 4d6+Intelligence modifier Force damage. FRIGID BLAST                        Wizard Limit Break 1 Limit Breat * Arcane, Cold, Implement Standard Action                      Close Blast 3. Target: Each creature in the area Attack: Intelligence vs Fortitude Hit: 1d6+Intelligence modifier Cold damage. Increase damage to 2d6+Intelligence modifier Cold damage, and you push the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier at which point they are Slowed until the end of your next turn.
#7 heathan_v20 Jan 06, 2010 18:45:41	Ok so I've been doing alot of thinking about this and here is what I've come up with after thinkin' about this a bit. 1) Use a recharge like what monsters have...roll 1d6 on a 6 the player can use a limit break. This means not every encounter a player will get a limit break, but every session they should. 2) Can use an Action Point to use a Limit Break. 3) Can use feats to alter when they recieve a Limit Break and alter Limit Breaks. 4) Limit Breaks are altered at-will powers, Every at-will should have a 2 or 3 Limit Break options. Now the other way to do this is make Limit Breaks be abilities that are added to powers regardless of at-will, encounter, daily, etc. They should be similar versions of class features. Not sure what everyone else thinks but let me know.
#8 Movanic Jan 09, 2010 15:37:27	Perhaps one option could be : use your at-will twice in a row and the third time you use it, it's the "Limit Break" version. R1 : ray of frost || R2: ray of frost || R3: Frigid Blast! R1 : ray of frost || R2: ray of frost (AP): Frigid Blast! would also be "legal". If it's to speed-up endings, perhaps a guide-line could be ~150% dmg for the limit break (be it in direct damage or in area increase or... something.) If it's to add a cool effect, you could add-in or increase a thematically evident effect : ray of frost = immobilize and ongoing 5 cold (save), scorching burst = ongoing 5 fire (save), etc. My 2cp. Addendum - if one weren't afraid of the book-keeping, a Bo9S approach could be cool : use one at-will, use a second at-will and the third is something of a mix of the two (or something new althougether.) ray of frost + scorching burst; leads to (insert cool name) target gains +2 speed, it suffers 2 points of necrotic damage for every square it enters (or something.) Food for thought your idea... stupid but important question : how do you, aside from going into the [html] mode, make simple line breaks be simple line breaks; as opposed to the very abusive spacing they now represent. ?
#9 nachtsieger Jan 09, 2010 19:04:11	stupid but important question : how do you, aside from going into the [html] mode, make simple line breaks be simple line breaks; as opposed to the very abusive spacing they now represent. ? Use Notepad.
#10 Style75 Jan 09, 2010 19:18:32	How about this Limit Break suggestion: Once all encounter powers are used up, then every 3 uses of an at-will power increases your crit chance. Ex. You already crit on 19 and 20,  then 3 at-will uses later you crit on 18, 19, 20. I think this simple change would up the damage output without it feeling complicated and requiring a lot of tinkering with powers. I wouldn't include dailies being exhausted as a requirement because players might want to save them for more important battles. By upping the crit chance, you are still including a level of randomness and it's not a guaranteed damage spike. The rationale behind it could be that as the battle drags on, the PC's become more desperate (or enraged, or focused, or whatever).
#11 heathan_v20 Jan 10, 2010 12:16:14	After much thinking I like the idea of Limit Breaks being altered options added to at-will powers (like increased damage etc). I also have to say I like the idea of them being a "recharge" as well. The next game I run I will get players to help out in creating various "options" for the at-wills as well as feats.