Line Powers - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Line Powers

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
vebrandsson
Feb 19, 2009 21:59:47 I'm looking to bring back the good old line spells in 4e and am having a little dificulty with some of the mechanics. To first define what a line used to be back in the days of cones, spheres and other hard to determine, all be it more realistic effects a line was defined as x feet wide and y feet long and effected everything in the area. Lightning at least in 2e was like this along with many other spells. Now a 1 square wide line is simple enough, but once you go with a width beyond that assuming you effect whole squares only things seem to get tricky. Any idea on how to word lines as areas, as complex as the wall rules are certainly it can be done?
#2
jasonrr
Feb 19, 2009 22:12:52 To make it simple and effective, I would only allow line powers to be one square wide by definition.
#3
vebrandsson
Feb 19, 2009 22:20:35
To make it simple and effective, I would only allow line powers to be one square wide by definition.

This makes about as much sense as limiting bursts to one square, or blasts to one square, it limits what you can do with them more than what I need for the powers I'm trying to make. Though outside certain very large creatures with things like linear breaths or gaze weapons I don't intend to do anything over 3 squares wide I still need a well worded rule for such an area. Doing odd numbered widths is easily done, its even numbered ones that I can't write up with out even me seeing a way to abuse it.
#4
Novacat
Feb 19, 2009 22:47:21 How about this?

#5
1shmael
Feb 19, 2009 23:11:31
Any idea on how to word lines as areas, as complex as the wall rules are certainly it can be done?

Why not make the power's effects apply to...

[INDENT]...all squares through which can be traced a single line-of-effect of x squares range[/INDENT]

I did that for one of my monsters.
#6
vebrandsson
Feb 19, 2009 23:56:07 @Novacat, if you want that power to do what I interpret it doesn't have to be linear, you can put at least one bend in it, but I'm looking for something more like the area of effect rules. When I get a chance to type up I'll post some of the things I've tried.

@1shmael, again, I want a system that can do lines that are more than one square wide, and that doesn't work so well for such a purpose.
#7
Sinasilver
Feb 20, 2009 6:59:07 I would just make Lines defined by two integers. Their width and the maximum reach of them(assuming they don't stop immediately if they strike something... Then they'd just be ranged effects). Something like:

Line X by Y

Close Line 3 by 10
Line 3 by 10 within 2

I won't trouble you with

And then you add the following amendment to "Attack types" on page 270 of the PHB:

Line: A Line fills an area within range that has a specified number of squares to each side. The shorter side of a line must always be the side closest to you. If the line is more than a single square in width you may chose which appropriate adjacent squares it occupies. For example, the warlock power Baleful Ray, is a line 2 by 10 within 1, which means it affects a 2x10 area adjacent to you. A line originates in a squares up to 1 square away from you and effects the originating square as well as and and one adjacent square, as well as every adjacent square extending away from you out to a distance of ten squares(A 2-by-10-square area). Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close line you create does not affect you. However, an Area Line you create does affect you. A line affects a target square only if there is a line of effect from the lines origin square to the target.

Close Line 2x10 examples

XXXXXXXXXXX
XXLLLLLLLLLLX
XOLLLLLLLLLLX
XXXXXXXXXXX

XXOXXX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXLLX
XXXXXX
#8
vebrandsson
Feb 20, 2009 9:54:32 I have tried something very simular Sinasilver, I was going to post it, but you seem to have that covered. The issue with that wording is it lets you do the following.

XXOXX
XLLXX
XXLLX
XLLXX
XXLLX
XLLXX
XXLLX
XLLXX
XXLLX
XLLXX
XXLLX

This is the situation I'm at a loss to try and prevent. I can't figure out how to word it to specifically say you can't do that.
#9
moondoggy
Feb 20, 2009 10:10:23 If you're going to be DMing, you can just say "You can't do that" if you want.

For example, "No Jefferey, you can't do that. It doesn't say 'Area: Zigzag 6' does it? It's a straight line hitting everyone in it's path like a bullet train through the market district. Now apologize to Michael because you just incinerated his gnome paladin."

If you and your players want to utilize a line area effect, they have to be fine with the occasional "accidental incineration of Michael's gnome paladin."
#10
vebrandsson
Feb 20, 2009 10:25:52 Hmm let's see how this wording works:

Area line x by y within Z

Close Line x by y

Line: A line effects every square between the origin square and a target square with in Y of the origin square, as well as a number of adjacent parallel contiguous lines such that the total width of the area is X. Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close line you create does not affect you. However an area line you create does effect you. A line affects a target only if there is a line of effect from the lines origin square to the target. You must have both a line of sight and a line of effect to both the origin and target squares.

Edited: I saw a potiential issue
#11
moondoggy
Feb 20, 2009 10:41:45 How about a ranged line? You know, something where the PC doesn't have to be the point of origin.

Here's a Ranged 5 Line 1x8

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
#12
vebrandsson
Feb 20, 2009 11:53:15 Area line 1 by 8 with in 5. Works just fine both me and sinasilver mentioned doing that.
#13
Sinasilver
Feb 20, 2009 20:46:06
Hmm let's see how this wording works:

Area line x by y within Z

Close Line x by y

Line: A line effects every square between the origin square and a target square with in Y of the origin square, as well as a number of adjacent parallel contiguous lines such that the total width of the area is X. Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close line you create does not affect you. However an area line you create does effect you. A line affects a target only if there is a line of effect from the lines origin square to the target.

I think that might well solve it... The word "Contiguous" that I didn't even bother to think of. Hm.. I might need to develop some powers in this line now.(Yes, pun intended.)
#14
ceiling90
Feb 21, 2009 10:35:28 You could use a wall. A wall effect never actually says that it has to surround you, so you can make a wall with so and so number of squares. Like Wall 8 within 10 squares. Its effectively a contiguous line, and since wall doesn't (I think it doesn't) explicitly state that it sits there, and more or less defines the area an attack or an effect takes, it's a line. I don't see why it should get anymore complicated than that.
#15
vebrandsson
Feb 21, 2009 10:54:59
You could use a wall. A wall effect never actually says that it has to surround you, so you can make a wall with so and so number of squares. Like Wall 8 within 10 squares. Its effectively a contiguous line, and since wall doesn't (I think it doesn't) explicitly state that it sits there, and more or less defines the area an attack or an effect takes, it's a line. I don't see why it should get anymore complicated than that.

Two reasons. First off I want to do some things that flavor wise the ability to wrap it around you or bend it just doesn't work. Secondly you cannot do a wall which is 2x8, the limitation that each section of a wall can be adjacent to only one other section prevents you from doing some interesting things.
#16
eldiran
Feb 21, 2009 13:58:43 Perhaps something like a wall, except with the stipulation that each contiguous square must be further away from you than the previous one? And an added clause that the wall can connect diagonally, in this case. From there you could require that a single line of effect must pass through every square, which should work for all legitimate applications, and eliminate any zigzagging.

A legit example:
XOXXXXX
XXLLXXXX
XXXXLLXX
XXXXXXLL

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 vebrandsson Feb 19, 2009 21:59:47	I'm looking to bring back the good old line spells in 4e and am having a little dificulty with some of the mechanics. To first define what a line used to be back in the days of cones, spheres and other hard to determine, all be it more realistic effects a line was defined as x feet wide and y feet long and effected everything in the area. Lightning at least in 2e was like this along with many other spells. Now a 1 square wide line is simple enough, but once you go with a width beyond that assuming you effect whole squares only things seem to get tricky. Any idea on how to word lines as areas, as complex as the wall rules are certainly it can be done?
#2 jasonrr Feb 19, 2009 22:12:52	To make it simple and effective, I would only allow line powers to be one square wide by definition.
#3 vebrandsson Feb 19, 2009 22:20:35	To make it simple and effective, I would only allow line powers to be one square wide by definition. This makes about as much sense as limiting bursts to one square, or blasts to one square, it limits what you can do with them more than what I need for the powers I'm trying to make. Though outside certain very large creatures with things like linear breaths or gaze weapons I don't intend to do anything over 3 squares wide I still need a well worded rule for such an area. Doing odd numbered widths is easily done, its even numbered ones that I can't write up with out even me seeing a way to abuse it.
#4 Novacat Feb 19, 2009 22:47:21	How about this?
#5 1shmael Feb 19, 2009 23:11:31	Any idea on how to word lines as areas, as complex as the wall rules are certainly it can be done? Why not make the power's effects apply to... [INDENT]...all squares through which can be traced a single line-of-effect of x squares range[/INDENT] I did that for one of my monsters.
#6 vebrandsson Feb 19, 2009 23:56:07	@Novacat, if you want that power to do what I interpret it doesn't have to be linear, you can put at least one bend in it, but I'm looking for something more like the area of effect rules. When I get a chance to type up I'll post some of the things I've tried. @1shmael, again, I want a system that can do lines that are more than one square wide, and that doesn't work so well for such a purpose.
#7 Sinasilver Feb 20, 2009 6:59:07	I would just make Lines defined by two integers. Their width and the maximum reach of them(assuming they don't stop immediately if they strike something... Then they'd just be ranged effects). Something like: Line X by Y Close Line 3 by 10 Line 3 by 10 within 2 I won't trouble you with And then you add the following amendment to "Attack types" on page 270 of the PHB: Line: A Line fills an area within range that has a specified number of squares to each side. The shorter side of a line must always be the side closest to you. If the line is more than a single square in width you may chose which appropriate adjacent squares it occupies. For example, the warlock power Baleful Ray, is a line 2 by 10 within 1, which means it affects a 2x10 area adjacent to you. A line originates in a squares up to 1 square away from you and effects the originating square as well as and and one adjacent square, as well as every adjacent square extending away from you out to a distance of ten squares(A 2-by-10-square area). Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close line you create does not affect you. However, an Area Line you create does affect you. A line affects a target square only if there is a line of effect from the lines origin square to the target. Close Line 2x10 examples XXXXXXXXXXX XXLLLLLLLLLLX XOLLLLLLLLLLX XXXXXXXXXXX XXOXXX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXLLX XXXXXX
#8 vebrandsson Feb 20, 2009 9:54:32	I have tried something very simular Sinasilver, I was going to post it, but you seem to have that covered. The issue with that wording is it lets you do the following. XXOXX XLLXX XXLLX XLLXX XXLLX XLLXX XXLLX XLLXX XXLLX XLLXX XXLLX This is the situation I'm at a loss to try and prevent. I can't figure out how to word it to specifically say you can't do that.
#9 moondoggy Feb 20, 2009 10:10:23	If you're going to be DMing, you can just say "You can't do that" if you want. For example, "No Jefferey, you can't do that. It doesn't say 'Area: Zigzag 6' does it? It's a straight line hitting everyone in it's path like a bullet train through the market district. Now apologize to Michael because you just incinerated his gnome paladin." If you and your players want to utilize a line area effect, they have to be fine with the occasional "accidental incineration of Michael's gnome paladin."
#10 vebrandsson Feb 20, 2009 10:25:52	Hmm let's see how this wording works: Area line x by y within Z Close Line x by y Line: A line effects every square between the origin square and a target square with in Y of the origin square, as well as a number of adjacent parallel contiguous lines such that the total width of the area is X. Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close line you create does not affect you. However an area line you create does effect you. A line affects a target only if there is a line of effect from the lines origin square to the target. You must have both a line of sight and a line of effect to both the origin and target squares. Edited: I saw a potiential issue
#11 moondoggy Feb 20, 2009 10:41:45	How about a ranged line? You know, something where the PC doesn't have to be the point of origin. Here's a Ranged 5 Line 1x8 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
#12 vebrandsson Feb 20, 2009 11:53:15	Area line 1 by 8 with in 5. Works just fine both me and sinasilver mentioned doing that.
#13 Sinasilver Feb 20, 2009 20:46:06	Hmm let's see how this wording works: Area line x by y within Z Close Line x by y Line: A line effects every square between the origin square and a target square with in Y of the origin square, as well as a number of adjacent parallel contiguous lines such that the total width of the area is X. Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close line you create does not affect you. However an area line you create does effect you. A line affects a target only if there is a line of effect from the lines origin square to the target. I think that might well solve it... The word "Contiguous" that I didn't even bother to think of. Hm.. I might need to develop some powers in this line now.(Yes, pun intended.)
#14 ceiling90 Feb 21, 2009 10:35:28	You could use a wall. A wall effect never actually says that it has to surround you, so you can make a wall with so and so number of squares. Like Wall 8 within 10 squares. Its effectively a contiguous line, and since wall doesn't (I think it doesn't) explicitly state that it sits there, and more or less defines the area an attack or an effect takes, it's a line. I don't see why it should get anymore complicated than that.
#15 vebrandsson Feb 21, 2009 10:54:59	You could use a wall. A wall effect never actually says that it has to surround you, so you can make a wall with so and so number of squares. Like Wall 8 within 10 squares. Its effectively a contiguous line, and since wall doesn't (I think it doesn't) explicitly state that it sits there, and more or less defines the area an attack or an effect takes, it's a line. I don't see why it should get anymore complicated than that. Two reasons. First off I want to do some things that flavor wise the ability to wrap it around you or bend it just doesn't work. Secondly you cannot do a wall which is 2x8, the limitation that each section of a wall can be adjacent to only one other section prevents you from doing some interesting things.
#16 eldiran Feb 21, 2009 13:58:43	Perhaps something like a wall, except with the stipulation that each contiguous square must be further away from you than the previous one? And an added clause that the wall can connect diagonally, in this case. From there you could require that a single line of effect must pass through every square, which should work for all legitimate applications, and eliminate any zigzagging. A legit example: XOXXXXX XXLLXXXX XXXXLLXX XXXXXXLL