Basic idea I am thinking is of having the setting take place on a Prime Material World which is slowly sliding into one of the lower planes. The few nations that existed before are either crumbling or slipping into tyranny, nature is being corrupted, fiends and undead are becoming more and more common, truly good people are few are far between. This would not be a ‘save the world’ campaign though. The world really is damned and there to prevent the inevitable decent into Hell (or The Abyss or The Grey Wastes or whatever ).
The characters wouldn’t necessarily know the full story of what is happening to their home (in the beginning at least) but it should be obvious even to them that there is no going back. There would have to be small victories to motivate the characters to continue but that would be about it. The goal of the characters would be simply to help where they can and try to show that good people can still exist. It would never be about the good guys ‘winning’ in the end, but more like just choosing they lose. Or at least the concept of ‘winning’ would have to be radically different that many other games.
Does this sound like it could potentially be appealing to people to play in? I think it sounds like something I would enjoy to play, or else why would I bother, but I don’t have any other gamers around to ask. It obviously borrows from Midnight, which I thoroughly loved, along with a lot of other dark fantasy settings.
Another question I had (assuming everyone doesn’t just say that the whole idea should be dropped or has already been done) was, is there any precedence for a prime material world moving into the outer planes? My initial idea was that this was just a natural act of the multiverse. No one’s fault, the world was just unlucky. And because it is the nature of the multiverse it is unstoppable and irreversible. There could also be a gazillion other reasons for it to happen, this was just my first thought. I would have no problem just saying that it’s just a unique occurrence, but I was just curious if anyone knew of something like that happening in D&D canon.
So that’s the idea. Like I said, it’s been a while since I played or DM’d a game and even longer since I did anything with fantasy. On top of that I’ve never tried to make a setting myself before, only adventures. I feel like I don’t have a great idea of what ends up working well as a place to play in a what doesn’t. Good or bad I’d like to hear what you think.
Thanks.
I doubt many players find a scenario appealing where they can only lose, though (maybe masochists). You need to define some form of victory which can be achieved, or there is no meaning to the fight.
(What good is it to get grandma a warm cloak against the freezing night air, when the Titanic is still going under? Such deeds don't count in the end.)
Some ideas for "win" scenarios:
1. The slide into the Abyss was caused by an unlikely alliance of Demon Lords who themselves are being manipulated by Tharizdun. Break the alliance and the world starts to drift away from the Abyss again. Or find and break the whatever they are using - or better, both. Or find and kill Tharizdun (ha ha!).
2. The slide into the Abyss was caused by attraction by the shard of pure Evil at the bottom of the Abyss. Find a shard of pure Good and send it into the Astral Sea and the world starts to drift toward it instead. The shard of Good only pulls the world from the brink; it's caught in the middle of the two (where it belongs).
3. The slide into the Abyss is truly unstoppable. Get together as many Good - or at least unaligned - as the campaign requires or allows and launch an Exodus To Another World. This would require a lot of small campaigns and each would get more desperate and frightening as the world gets worse, before they Escape.
There are lots of other ways you could play it, and it would be good to give the players choices, perhaps between the difficult with passable results and the very difficult with better results. The best idea would be for new options to become available to them if they survive to higher levels.
I haven’t had a chance to look at anything about 4e yet so this will have to be 3.5 based. Probably also be using the grim-n-gritty combat rules and modified magic systems. I want to check out 4e, but it won’t be soon. Probably around when 5e comes out :/
Planescape: Torment ends up being a source for a lot of my d&d ideas, whether intentional or not. It was just so good! But yeah, something like this did happen there. If I remember right that was the gate town Curst in the Outlands sliding into Carceri. So you think that basically the same thing could happen outside of the Outer Planes? I guess either way it shows that sections of planes can move, so I guess there’s no reason it can’t happen here.
One think I forgot to mention was the time frame I see it happening on. I didn’t think this would be a quick transition (like the one from P:T). I was thinking it would have been going on for 3 or 4 generations already with about that many more before it was completely lost. So there should be plenty of time for the characters to stem the tide of evil on a small scale, its just when you look at the big picture you see its constantly heading down.
I actually like the Titanic example you used, Vatras. And I can see where you are coming from, especially in the real world. But then again, this is D&D and gods and the afterlife are slightly less obscure than in the real world. So even if you know everyone’s going to die, isn’t choosing how you treat people in the end maybe more obviously a goal to shoot for? Don’t get me wrong, in terms of making the game enjoyable you have a good point, but I still feel like if it is done well there still could be some good times to be had in a game where the characters know the ship is going down and they can't stop it.
So people want happy endings these days, huh? What about just making a slightly less unhappy ending?
I guess I get the idea that there does need to be some sort of ‘victory’ the characters can strive for, its just a matter of what that would be. The idea that the future of the world (and everyone on it) is unavoidable was pretty essential to my mental picture of the setting. I would prefer not to let the characters have the idea that they could somehow prevent the long term outcome. But that doesn’t completely rule out there still being goals to reach and victories to have I think. What about some sort of soul saving as a end goal. Before the world started being drawn to the lower planes, most of the population worshipped one of two good aligned gods. The characters find that fiends have begun corruption people in every way they know how, so that when the people die their souls no longer go to the gods they worshipped all their lives, but to the demons and devils who corrupted and led them to their deaths. So every demonic plot that the characters stop it means that many more souls that are safe for the moment. Also there would be particularly important people, such as the high priest of the failing church, which would be hugely important targets for the fiends, and therefor high priorities for the characters to protect.
Would this kind of idea do anything to help improve the chances of the characters feeling like that have solid goals they are reaching and really making a difference? I realize its still not the standard saving the world type difference but that’s part of the point
Leowulf, your ideas were all awesome, so thanks for the help. If my original idea falls through I might be stealing some of yours
Thanks again both of you for your ideas so far!
I tire of the fairy tale stories of good always surpassing evil, the black & white campaigns. This however seems simply fantastic.
The goal of the PCs?
It wouldn't be a traditional one. To do good despite your realms fate, a question of ethics, morale, and humanity in general.
Everyone goes down, but are you going to worry about the fact that can not be stopped, or will you go down in style?
Most adventurers easily stares death square in the eyes, mocking him at every corner, however, to stare at an Armageddon, death, and overwhelming evil..that takes a true adventurer, a real hero.
I would enjoy playing in such a campaign.
How truly faithful are the clerics and paladins of this realm with such odds against them? How many true heroes are left?