I started organizing some thoughts on doing Middle Earth in 4E on a wiki here, and would love if anyone else would care to contribute: community.wizards.com/wiki/Dnd:Middle_Ea...
I would restrict such a campaign to martial classes, and leaders such as the warlord. Maybe a paladin class. No monk. I think a Barbarian fits better than you think it does. While examples of characters are sparse in the books, savagery exists in the hinter lands. I'm thinking of the remnant tribes around the Ice Bay of Forochel, and tribes of men from the east (Sea of Rhun areas, etc).
Also, races: Eladrin, no. As much as I like the Eladrin, teleporting is decidedly NOT Tolkienesque, at least not for corporeal creatures. Perhaps if you took away the fey step power and replaced it with something else it would work, like a 5 square shift encounter power and a bonus feat.
Monsters that fit well (taken from Adventure tools list):
Orcs (of course), goblins, hobgoblins. I'd re-purpose these. Orc would be Uruk Hai, Hobgoblins would be your run of the mill Orc -- goblins could stay as goblins.
Stone Giants
Hill Giants
Earth Giant (re-purposed as a mountain troll or some such)
Firbolgs (again, as weird trolls)
Troll, Troll worgmaster, Troll runt, Fell Troll, War Troll, Warren Troll
Ogres
Ettins
Formorians (troll substitutes)
wolves, winter wolves, Dire Wolf, Vicious Dire Wolf
Worgs
Forest beings:
- Treant,
- Blackroot Treant,
- Elm Skirmisher,
- Shambling Mound, Massive Shambling Mound,
- Oak Brute,,
- vine horror
- wood woad
Trebuchet and crew (although perhaps too advanced technologically speaking for the books, it fits the movies)
a few chromatic dragons sprinkled throughout the world,
An angelic creature or two (sparingly)
An Aspect of one of the demon/devils could be used for Sauron (or modified).
For the various Undead within Tolkien's work you might use:
- Astral Stalker, Astral Render, Astral Shade
- Wights, wraiths, specters, Deathlock Wight, Mad Wraith, Lost Wraith, Moon Wraith, Oblivion Wraith, Sword Wraith
- Ghost Legionaire
- Death Knigts might make ideal Ringwraiths
- Ethereal Marauder
- Nightmares (for mounts of undead)
- keening spirit
- Nightwalker
- Wailing Ghost, Watchful Ghost
- Traitorous Spirit (a nice minion for the hosts)
One Demon (Balor) (as an additional Balrog the party can interact with)
Spiders
Dryad, Hamadryad
perhaps a few Wyverns
Gargoyle (while we never see any, they seem to fit in flavor)
Humans (and plenty of 'em), Thug
Lich (very rare of course -- Sauron in his earliest forms might have been something similar)
Raven Swarm re-purposed as Crebian.
will-o-wisp
Giant Squid (Watcher in the Water type creature)
Roc (repurposed, re-aligned (Lawful Good), and downsized (Large) for Giant Eagle)
Elephant
*Refrain from using the arcane/divine iterations of these monsters (Ogre Shaman, etc), except in very rare cases. One might encounter a shaman amongst the Pukel men in Southern Rohan for example.
That's my list of monsters. There might be a few more, but I think that's pretty exhaustive. I couldn't think of an appropriate winged mount for the Nazgul, but I'm sure there's one.
The bulk of encounters seems like it will be Humans and Orc types. Also, I don't see such an campaign getting very advanced into Paragon tier. That could be fun though.
That's why I would strongly suggest one of the characters play as a Deva and choose either Wizard or Swordmage. Swordmage is probably closer in flavor to Gandalf, but maybe the character can be one of the other Istari that we never get to meet in the books. Or if the game is in the future, the character can be an entirely new Istari to face a new threat.
As for what new threat, I think this provides ample hooks:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagor_Dagorath
As for the Barbarian class, it certainly fits in Middle Earth, but does it fit in a Fellowship? If you were to run a spectator campaign where the characters just run around fighting monsters and looting treasure, the Barbarian works fine. But that sounds lots more like Conan than it does Aragorn. If the player wants to make a barbaric character who bands together with civilized folk to do great good, then you're getting closer to a Tolkienesque story. Perhaps the barbarian is like Gollum, and is conflicted?
I think the Eladrin is too close a fit to be discarded because of one power's flavor conflict. If you do that, nothing will work. Just think of Feystep as jumping up the side of a giant elephant.
(Granted, Legolas is a wood elf, but you get the idea.)While Heroic Tier adventures could be fun, I think a true fellowship would best be modeled with a Paragon Tier campaign that goes into Epic. I was thinking there might be a brief low-level adventure for when the characters are young, but that then they'll all start off at level 11. Other than the hobbits, all of the first Fellowship's members were incredibly awesome from the get-go.
Thanks for the thoughts on monsters, that's awesome stuff, I'll definitely be using that!
Gandalf was no doubt powerful, but that power was greatly restricted via dictum from the Valar themselves. In 4e terms, he was probably higher than 30lvl (Drizzt is 21 for comparison), likely on the scale of Bahamut at 36lvl. Gandalf is such an anomoly to the everyday Middle Earth citizen that to use him as the basis of magic, both diminishes his stature and completely changes the tone of Middle Earth.
Finally, as to starting level, it has nothing, again, to do with the pejorative 'spectator' campaign. The perception that one is somehow not powerful at 1st level ignores the fact that most human/sentient creatures in the word are on the scale of Minion in power. The four hobbits certainly began their adventuring career near the level of 1st, whilst the nobles (Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, Boromir) began theirs more near the middle of Paragon in my estimation. Having one's characters start in Paragon removes any of the threat from the most likely of opponents: Orcs. At Paragon level, Trolls and Giants become fodder, a single creature of which even Aragorn feared to face. Thus starting at such high levels again fails to capture the flavor of Middle Earth.
This will be my final entry to this project. I'm glad you appreciated the monster suggestions. But this being the internet, and the need to win internet discussions is so paramount, that I'm convinced you'll not take any of my above analysis to heart as it appears you're set in your desires. Good luck with your project.
You could run the Middle Earth or a Middle Earth flavoured game if you wanted to. You could even "reimagine" the War of the Ring trilogy if it helps - for example imagine Boromir got the ring off Frodo - the first Fellowship fails and the players have to step in with a second fellowship. Their first mission is to retrieve the ring from Boromir. Lots of TV shows and film franchises (such as the new Robin Hood movie) do drastic things to the perceived canon. It will certainlty stop players from saying "that didn't happen in the book"
Alternativelty, you need to set the players up as some kind of team who carry out missions for the good guys - they might get involved as decoys - distracting the Nazgul from their search for the ring, recruiting allies and such like.
I agree with DD on the creatures, although I think a scaled (instead of feathered) Roc would be a great mount for the Nazgul.
ME is my favorite world and love running games in it. I've done early 3rd Age and 1st age senarios but kept away from The War of the Ring timeline. 4E in the 4th Age would be interesting.
Good luck!
All in all you can do Middle Earth/ Lord of the Rings fine with any of the classes. Just because we didn't see them in the movies or read about them as drastic powers or figures in the books doesn't mean they never existed.
I always love when people say LoTR didn't have magic in it, or only had 7 mages.
Wormtounge was totally a beguiler, whispering dark words into theodin's ears. He also happened to be Saruman's apprentice. Saruman was known for having magic spells based on his voice. Grima clearly knew some of these spells.
The mouth of Sauron was clearly described as a mage. According to wikipedia because my books are across the room and I don't want to leaf through them... "Also known as the Lieutenant of Barad-dûr, he had served Sauron for much of his life, learning great sorcery but forgetting his own name"
You could, and I would, argue that Aragorn knew minor magic. After all the hands of a healer thing he can do. Sure you could say he knew he right alchemical process, but I think one of those steps as "hit it with magic" otherwise those nursemaids who talked about "Old ledgends say it can heal, but we haven't seen any proof" would have figured that out.
Denethor clearly has some magical prowess. He is able to use the palintir without going crazy, and even uses it to scry on the enemy. Sure it doesn't work out well in the end, but the fact that he is able to use this thing that even Gandalf is afraid of, is a sign that he knows some magic. Then there are all the times gandalf and denethor have their debates, and Merry (Pippin?) talks about how it looks like they were involved in some sort of mental battle of wills. They were probably engaged in some form of psychic/magic wrestling contest to charm the other person.
A huge thing I think is often forgotten. The mouth of Sauron is someone who studied magic under Sauron. Clearly this shows 2 things. 1- Magic can be taught, and 2- Sauron teaches people. Odds are good he doesn't just teach one guy and drop the issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see a mage per thousand men/orcs in his armies.
Secondly along those same lines. Are we expected to believe that Saruman also only trained wormtounge and that was it. He lives in what looks a lot like a wizard school/enclave, and he is the head of it. But apparently the only guy under him is wormtounge. (And the gandalf, radagast, and the other guys). No, its pretty evident that this tower/complex was a center or hub of magical teachings. As soon as Saruman took power/became evil, he closed the doors and lived there alone, locking the other people out. (Heck gandalf talks about how he used to like going there and just strolling the grounds, imagine how many others did as well)
Basically what I'm getting at is, magic is all over LoTR. Its just always done in a very subtle way, so that when something like a fireball is done, it is a huge deal. Sure cloud of daggers is probably not going to fit, but that doesn't mean the setting is devoid of mages outside the big 7.
Anyone's examples of Magic thus far have centered around the Istari (of which there were only 5) who were Maiar, which were GODS. Yes, gods can perform magic, very good. Sauron (or his master Morgoth) were also lessser and a major god respectively.
Tom Bombadil is a bad example as he is something greater than the gods of Middle-Earth.
Wormtongue is a good example of magic in the hands of mortals in Middle-Earth, but Wormtongue has no good analog class-wise in the 4th edition classes. He is certainly not more than a mid-heroic tier creature on the basis of what he was capable of doing, as manipulation with a couple of magical bonuses to telling lies need not mark him any higher than that.
The Mouth of Sauron is another candidate, as he was a mortal human perverted and taught magic. Specific examples of his "great sorcery" are sporadic at best and meet no criteria comparable to 4th edition examples of magic.
Aragorn is a terrible example of a mortal to use as any reasonable analog. He is elf-blooded, a dunedain, taught by Elrond, and the super-protagonist of the series. Even as one of the most powerful MORTALS during the third age he has super limited magic ability, and his hands of the healer ability was more like a ritual that he used to cure those affected, rather than any sort of 4e arcane / primal / divine effect from a power. He is a great analog for a ranger with the knowledge of a special ritual but not a good analog for 4e magic as a whole.
Denethor is no magic user. He used a magic device. So he blew an item's daily power to scry, one doesn't need to be a magic user in 4e to do this. Furthermore, he did go crazy from it, as Sauron used his palantir to intercept and send perverted visions of the future / what was going on to Denethor. He was a paragon fighter at best.
The Elves as a whole have some magic inherent to their race, but their uses for magic (including foresight, empathy, and controlling nature) are subtle and more akin to rituals than a class that can use magic to harm foes.
All-in-all in can be seen that magic-using CLASSES don't particularly make sense for player characters as only GODS in the setting are really seen with the ability to wield offensive magic, but perhaps allowing martial classes to more easily access rituals would fit the flavor of a 4e Middle-Earth.
As far as 4e classes working perfectly into a middle-earth campaign yes they never will. But how often do the dnd 4e or 3.5 classes every translate perfectly? If you want to model a world after thundar the barbarien you'd need to flavor somethings. If you wanted to rewrite the whole van Helsing/Count dracula series you'd need to flavor somethings. If you wanted to rewrite earthsea/the series merlin/or any sci-fi series to date, youd need to reflavor things.
ultimatley to say Arcane/divine/Primal classes CAN NOT fit into middle-earth is absurd. Yes i would say rarity would be requires as well as making sure it wasn't an all over the world type of thing. I also believe that sorceror would make a better fitting then wizard. Wizard would definatly have to be reserved for someone very aged, very powerful, and trained by someone or thing just as great. In otherwords id require the player to make a darn good explanation of a background to work. But to completley cut it out is absurb.
I mean at the defense of Helm's Deep a company of Elves was present ... and none of them cast spells. Seems like one of those useful times in which they may have wanted to ... if they could have.
Name one time in the cannon that Arwen uses a spell. One. Please don't say Rivendell with the drowning the Nazgul in the river scenario, because that was a movie-adaptation. In actuality it was Elrond that had set it up in advance knowing that the Nazgul were arriving.
Aragon DID need a component: Kings Foil.
Many of the protection spells did need runes, like the door to enter Moria, or any of the magical weapons.
On that note, name any mortal creature short of a god that cast a spell.
Furthermore, Gandalf WAS a god. He was a maiar, meaning that he was a lesser Ainur, creatures that entered Ea at the beginning of time. So, no, not really a demi-god.
Rituals make a much better approximation of mortal magic in LoTR / middle-earth.
The closest thing to overt magical use I can think of was in the Hobbit when Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves were stuck in the trees. Gandalf hurled colored fire bolts at the wargs. Also, when Bilbo and the Dwarves were stumbling into the elven celebrations. All light blinked out at once as if a darkness spell had been cast but Tolkien never lets the reader "see" it being cast.
Tolkien's magic was in the world itself. The flora and fauna of Middle Earth was the greatest magic, and most visible, done by the Maiar.
Though it was Elrond and Gandalf that called upon the defenses at the Ford of Bruinen. Perhaps you are thinking of Glorfindel's horse? Frodo was riding it on his way to Rivendall as Glorfindel was there protecting the Fellowship.
ABK, the discussion was whether it makes sense for power sources such as arcane and divine to be included in a 4e LoTR game. I think it doesn't make sense for a true rendition of Arda (particularly Middle-Earth), and that you should probably make it just martial classes with access to rituals.
Again, examples of Gandalf doing things are bad examples because he is a Maiar.
Now, if one wants to include arcane and divine and primal classes for PC's, I posit that you can visit the names and places and characters that exist in Middle-Earth but it wouldn't capture the essence of ME.
There are no gods, other than Eru, the creator. The Maiar are basically angels. They sing in choirs, were created first, and were entrusted with nurturing the world after Eru created it. Melkor was one of the greatest of the higher choir of angels before his pride caused him to rebel against the creator (sound familiar?).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melkor
Some of the Valar are worshiped as gods on Middle Earth, but they most definitely are not. Thus divine classes don't fit exactly (but I agree with those that suggest keeping an open mind to good ways to justify or reskin these classes).
The Valar (the greatest of the Maiar) sent several lesser Maiar to Middle Earth to contest the rule of Sauron, of whom Gandalf and Sarumon were members. "They had great skills of hand and mind but were cloaked in the guise of men, seemingly old but of great vigour." Thus as angels embodied in the form of mortal men, the Deva race is a nearly perfect fit.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maiar
So roll up an Istari and have fun, I say. "But Gandalf should be super high level!" Well in D&D all the PCs are the same level. It's just one of those conventions that aren't realistic but makes for a more fun game.
Best of luck to the OP!