Magic available to high-level characters only (4e). - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Magic available to high-level characters only (4e).

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
perseus_stoned
Jan 25, 2009 22:16:23 Hello,

I am writing a campaign world (in 4th edition) where you can only use magical abilities after reaching level 10. That means that anything with "arcane" or "divine" cannot be produced, except by a 10th level character. You can use magic items created by high level characters fine (i.e. magic weapons or even wands), but just don't have the ability to generate that magic yourself.

What are potential balance (or any, really) problems with eliminating character classes like Paladin, Warlock, Wizard, etc? Thanks for your help.
#2
perseus_stoned
Jan 26, 2009 20:20:41 Bump.
#3
nunchuckgun
Jan 26, 2009 21:26:28 Erm, basically, your party is dead.
At least, mine would be.
Clerics are essential to the survival of a party. The ability to grant healing surges during combat has been 100% nessessary every time my players get into combat... and I'm using DMG/MM sanctioned "normal" encounters.

you'd have to take it easy on them for a couple encounters to see what an all martial group is capable of... in my opinion.
#4
perseus_stoned
Jan 26, 2009 21:31:26 Great, thank you. Your experience is exactly what I was looking for. Do you think I could possibly modify the Warlord class and just offer some of the Cleric's encounter abilties only "martialed"?

Additionally do you feel perhaps healing potions could help "ease" the loss of a party cleric?
#5
nunchuckgun
Jan 26, 2009 22:06:00 Yes, I would say that they could ease, but remember, it's an action to drink a potion, and a cleric at mid heroic can AoE heal multiple allies in a single turn, leaving them the time and actions to deal with monsters.
#6
oxybe
Jan 26, 2009 23:24:47 easiest way to handle low magic?

give all characters a bonus +1 to hit and to all defenses at level 1 and another at level 6. from then on just drop the magic bonus from all weapons/armor/ect... by 2. this way they stay at the curve while not having access to magic gear.
#7
perseus_stoned
Jan 28, 2009 15:10:38 Thank you, but I'm more concerned about the lack of healing and other utilities. They'll be fairly major characters, so they'll have easy access to rituals and items created by magic, but won't have it so easily when it comes to combat.
#8
oxybe
Jan 28, 2009 16:16:15 you could allow 2 uses of the second wind option per combat, maybe turning it into a move action instead of standard.

also remember that you can use any amount of surges during a short rest to heal up, so while mid-combat will be harsh, they should be nearly full HP at the next combat. note you also have the warlord, a martial character who has access to some healing.
#9
Lord_Ventnor
Jan 30, 2009 14:26:34 Should work, if you restrict your players to Martial Classes only. From what I've heard, Warlords can fill in for clerics just fine.
#10
serphet
Jan 30, 2009 14:31:47 Martial classes only, allow MC and Paragon MC'n at level 10.

no real problems, still have the warlord leader class.
#11
rikiji
Jan 30, 2009 16:30:05 Warlords work just fine for healers. Also keep in mind, you won't have any controllers - so keep the minions down as well.
#12
Neutronium_Dragon
Jan 31, 2009 7:29:27 Before you proceed with this, check with your players to ensure that they're okay with playing in a setting/game like that - "Help! My players don't like the nifty but unusual campaign idea I had!" is one of the more common pleas (in various forms) that float around the boards.
#13
the-antediluvian
Jan 31, 2009 15:49:57 How did the high level magic users get to high level? If they can't use their powers till tenth level, were they just born into paragon roles, or what? Otherwise, it looks like all the magic users would simply be multiclassed martial heroes.

Wands aren't going to help anyone. They're implements for arcane classes, so if a martial class finds a wand, he's not getting a bang out of it.

And yeah, ask your players if they want to play in this world.
#14
ambulacetus
Feb 01, 2009 15:48:34 Clerics are nice, but hardly necesary - in my experience, a warlord can do a fine job as the party's leader. If your players are ok with this campaign just go ahead and limit them to martial classes their is enough variety for it to work out fine.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 perseus_stoned Jan 25, 2009 22:16:23	Hello, I am writing a campaign world (in 4th edition) where you can only use magical abilities after reaching level 10. That means that anything with "arcane" or "divine" cannot be produced, except by a 10th level character. You can use magic items created by high level characters fine (i.e. magic weapons or even wands), but just don't have the ability to generate that magic yourself. What are potential balance (or any, really) problems with eliminating character classes like Paladin, Warlock, Wizard, etc? Thanks for your help.
#2 perseus_stoned Jan 26, 2009 20:20:41	Bump.
#3 nunchuckgun Jan 26, 2009 21:26:28	Erm, basically, your party is dead. At least, mine would be. Clerics are essential to the survival of a party. The ability to grant healing surges during combat has been 100% nessessary every time my players get into combat... and I'm using DMG/MM sanctioned "normal" encounters. you'd have to take it easy on them for a couple encounters to see what an all martial group is capable of... in my opinion.
#4 perseus_stoned Jan 26, 2009 21:31:26	Great, thank you. Your experience is exactly what I was looking for. Do you think I could possibly modify the Warlord class and just offer some of the Cleric's encounter abilties only "martialed"? Additionally do you feel perhaps healing potions could help "ease" the loss of a party cleric?
#5 nunchuckgun Jan 26, 2009 22:06:00	Yes, I would say that they could ease, but remember, it's an action to drink a potion, and a cleric at mid heroic can AoE heal multiple allies in a single turn, leaving them the time and actions to deal with monsters.
#6 oxybe Jan 26, 2009 23:24:47	easiest way to handle low magic? give all characters a bonus +1 to hit and to all defenses at level 1 and another at level 6. from then on just drop the magic bonus from all weapons/armor/ect... by 2. this way they stay at the curve while not having access to magic gear.
#7 perseus_stoned Jan 28, 2009 15:10:38	Thank you, but I'm more concerned about the lack of healing and other utilities. They'll be fairly major characters, so they'll have easy access to rituals and items created by magic, but won't have it so easily when it comes to combat.
#8 oxybe Jan 28, 2009 16:16:15	you could allow 2 uses of the second wind option per combat, maybe turning it into a move action instead of standard. also remember that you can use any amount of surges during a short rest to heal up, so while mid-combat will be harsh, they should be nearly full HP at the next combat. note you also have the warlord, a martial character who has access to some healing.
#9 Lord_Ventnor Jan 30, 2009 14:26:34	Should work, if you restrict your players to Martial Classes only. From what I've heard, Warlords can fill in for clerics just fine.
#10 serphet Jan 30, 2009 14:31:47	Martial classes only, allow MC and Paragon MC'n at level 10. no real problems, still have the warlord leader class.
#11 rikiji Jan 30, 2009 16:30:05	Warlords work just fine for healers. Also keep in mind, you won't have any controllers - so keep the minions down as well.
#12 Neutronium_Dragon Jan 31, 2009 7:29:27	Before you proceed with this, check with your players to ensure that they're okay with playing in a setting/game like that - "Help! My players don't like the nifty but unusual campaign idea I had!" is one of the more common pleas (in various forms) that float around the boards.
#13 the-antediluvian Jan 31, 2009 15:49:57	How did the high level magic users get to high level? If they can't use their powers till tenth level, were they just born into paragon roles, or what? Otherwise, it looks like all the magic users would simply be multiclassed martial heroes. Wands aren't going to help anyone. They're implements for arcane classes, so if a martial class finds a wand, he's not getting a bang out of it. And yeah, ask your players if they want to play in this world.
#14 ambulacetus Feb 01, 2009 15:48:34	Clerics are nice, but hardly necesary - in my experience, a warlord can do a fine job as the party's leader. If your players are ok with this campaign just go ahead and limit them to martial classes their is enough variety for it to work out fine.