Changes To Power Sources
The Arcane power source becomes the Hypertech power source. Hypertech deals primarily with the manipulation of raw forces and elements through high-tech scientific devices, like nanobots and portable force generators.
The Divine power source becomes the Tech power source. Tech deals more with the application of technology to enhance combat effectiveness and heal the wounded through more comprehensible and practical means than Hypertech. Instead of nanobots and force generators, Tech uses chemical injectors and skin sealant to heal and energy fields and beam focusers to enhance weapon use.
The Arcana skill becomes the Science skill and all Detect DCs are increased by +5, and the Religion skill becomes the Philosophy skill and the DC to discern information about undead is increased by +5. The DCs for all Monster Knowledge checks are increased by +5 (this stacks with the +5 DC increase in the Philosophy skill, for a net +10 DC increase). Skills remain unchanged beyond this.
Changes To Classes
Rangers and rogues add proficiency in lasers and guns.
The Wizard is renamed the Mad Scientist. He uses science to alter and control the field of battle and manipulate his foes.
Show
An Eladrin Mad Scientist prepares to release a blast of energy.
An Eladrin Mad Scientist prepares to release a blast of energy.
For me, I think the most interesting part of a game like this would be realizing that the magic and healing techniques you've been throwing around are bastardizations of ancient science, the 'aberrant' are genetically engineered aliens, that the great castle of the good king is the head of an enormous war machine...and the mad villain has the rest of it constructed, and only needs the last component to reactivate the beastly device. Sort of like in Wizards, when the evil wizard broadcast WWII propaganda films to shock the elf army into inaction long enough for his troops to move in and sneak attack them.
Another suggestion is to have the modern and futuristic weapons target a character's reflex score, not his Armor Class. There will be two sorts of weapons and two types of armor, the regular D&D type armor and weapons and the Modern/Futuristic weapons and armor. The modern/futuristic armor adds bonuses to both Armor Class and Reflex scores while the D&D armor only adds to armor class, this simulates the fact that bullets and laser beams will cut or burn right through the medeaval stuff. Also I think the range of your laser pistol is too small, you might as well use a dagger or fire a crossbow. Modern and futuristic stuff should be better that the medeaval stuff as both will exist side by side in a post-appocaliptic campaign, the modern/futuristic stuff should be rarer that the stuff you can buy at a weaponsmith's shop or an armorer. I think the designers had a possible futuristic add on in mind when they designed the D&D 4e system, I can tell by the 4 different defense scores they use now.
Arrows, swords and other sorts of low velocity weapons must penetrate the opponent's armor class.
A magic missile, fireballs lightning bolts must penetrate a character's reflex score because armor can't hope to stop them, at least the garden variety D&D stuff can't.
A fortitude roll might be called for as well, especially if a critical hit is achieved.
A roll against will might be called for if an enemy uses mind influencing drugs, or possibly psionics or psionic-like mutant powers for instance.
This is an optional module for those who want to introduce Modern Weapons to your D&D 4e campaign. It turns out that D&D 4e is very compatible with the old d20 Modern game, it appears alot of the ideas taken in developing d20 Modern were incorporated into the new D&D 4e, in particular Action points come to mind. To simulate the penetrating power of Modern weapons, when making an attack vs a target in Medeaval armor an attack roll is a d20 + attack bonus vs Reflex, not Armor Class! This is because the armor bonus is incorporated in AC but not in reflex, magical enhancement bonuses are however.
Using the Equipment list in the d20 Modern Core rulebook I have come up with the following interpretation for the equipment presented. We'll start with handguns:
Handguns (require the Personal Firearms Proficiency Feat)
Handgun ----------------------------- Prof -- Dmg --- Rng(sq) RoF* Weight
Beretta 92F (9mm autoloader) --------- +2 --- 2d6 --- 8/80 --- S ---- 3 lb.
Beretta 93R (9mm machine pistol) ------ +2 --- 2d6 --- 6/60 --- S,A -- 3 lb.
Colt Double Eagle (10mm autoloader) --- +2 --- 2d6 --- 6/60 --- S ---- 3 lb.
Colt M1911 (.45 autoloader) ----------- +2 --- 2d6 --- 6/60 --- S ---- 3 lb.
Colt Python (.357 revolver) ------------ +3 --- 2d6 --- 8/80 --- S ---- 3 lb.
Derringer (.45) ------------------------ +2 --- 2d6 --- 2/20 --- Single - 1 lb.
Desert Eagle (.50 AE autoloader) ------- +2 --- 2d8 --- 8/80 --- S ---- 4 lb.
Glock 17 (9mm autoloader) ------------- +3 --- 2d6 --- 6/60 --- S ---- 2 lb.
Glock 20 (10mm autoloader) ------------ +3 --- 2d6 --- 8/80 --- S ---- 3 lb.
MAC Ingram M10 (.45 machine pistol) --- +2 --- 2d6 --- 8/80 --- S,A -- 6 lb.
Pathfinder (.22 revolver) --------------- +2 --- 2d4 --- 4/40 --- S ---- 1 lb.
Ruger Service-Six (.385 revolver) ------- +2 --- 2d6 --- 6/60 --- S ---- 2 lb.
S&W M29 (.44 magnum revolver) ------- +2 --- 2d8 --- 6/60 --- S ---- 3 lb.
SITES M9 (9mm autoloader) ------------ +2 --- 2d6 --- 6/60 --- S ---- 2 lb.
Skorpion (.32 machine pistol) ----------- +2 --- 2d4 --- 8/80 --- S,A -- 4 lb.
TEC-9 (9mm machine pistol) ------------ +2 --- 2d6 --- 8/80 --- S,A -- 4 lb.
Walther PPK (.32 autoloader) ----------- +2 --- 2d4 --- 6/60 --- S ---- 1 lb.
*RoF: There are three possible rates of fire for handguns, longarms, and heavy weapons, they are: Single for single shot, S for semiautomatic, and A for automatic.
For a Single Shot handgun you simply roll d20 add attack bonuses and compare the result against the targets Reflex score, if the result is equal to or greater than the target's Reflex score you roll the listed damage under the Dmg column.
For a Semiautomatic the treatment is the same as for single shot weapons except for people with the Semiautomatic feat in which the user may fire up to 5 rounds per round rolling an attack roll for each shot in rapid succession or empty the magazine in that round, whichever is the lesser.
For Automatic the user instead targets 4 adjacent squares, the Reflex for each square is by default 10, if there is hard cover then the situation will modify the square Reflex score upwards, a brick wall might give a +5 cover bonus to the target square it is in front of for example. For every square the Automatic burst hits, each character must make a Reflex saving throw in order to avoid getting hit and taking damage: Each rolls a D20 adding modifiers and if the result is below the target's Reflex score, he avoids taking damage from the Automatic fire for that round.
Notice how most of these weapons have greater ranges than your laser pistol and they all do about 2 hit dice of damage, futuristic weapons should do even better than this, perhaps 3 hit dice or have greater ranges or perhaps both. In a post-appocalyptic campaign, most characters will start off with swords, armor, and bows and arrows, and as they find treasures, they will encounter the above, and some laser pistols and rifles. The thing that balances out the modern/futuristic weapons greater effectiveness is that you can fire them only so long as you have good ammo, with laser pistols, you'll need charged battery packs and a means to recharge them, a generator with an electrical outlet would be the most likely source, and that generator will require fuel.
Finding these things are what adventures are all about!
Also, there were a few more weapons and another magic weapon quality that I posted on the GitP forum version of this thread that I intend to copy onto this thread. Unfortunately, their server is down for the next few days or so, so that'll have to wait. In the meantime, I'm adding a few more things that incorporate some of what you mentioned.
[EDIT] Forget to mention this as well. All those different guns you have there, I'd personally just use one basic pistol and say that different kinds of guns are guns that have special qualities, like a magic properties or the off-hand quality or high-crit quality. I suppose that there could be some advantage somewhere to statting out every single gun and trying to differentiate them and legitimize why they aren't just the same things, but I find that simply saying they're different guns is a lot easier than making it a mechanical issue.
This is, in addition to changing it around so as to remove magic from the equation, a springboard for other 4e settings that have little to no 'magical magic,' instead using science or the Force or whatever. For example, the above rules with minor tweakage can change 4e into Star Wars (I know there's already Saga for that, but I was less than impressed with that...) or any other sci-fi setting. It can also make for an acceptable near-future or modern setting. And, if you're really feeling crazy, it works quite nicely for a steampunk setting with mad scientists and monsters and other crazy stuff (a la Girl Genius).
So, yes, while the settings can be magical and dark without changing anything, simple reflavorings and minor changes can further change whats written out above into even more settings with even crazier things.
Also, does anybody feel like writing up some paragon paths that fit any of the aforementioned themes?
I like the idea about using reflex instead of armor class, but on the damage aspect of the weapons, I opted for balance with the other phb weapons instead of the perhaps somewhat more realistic strength. The special quality of laser weapons that lets them be used as implements by what are in normal D&D clerics and paladins in place of a melee weapon. This gives the characters range that they otherwise wouldn't have, and the weapons also deal half their damage in energy damage.
Also, there were a few more weapons and another magic weapon quality that I posted on the GitP forum version of this thread that I intend to copy onto this thread. Unfortunately, their server is down for the next few days or so, so that'll have to wait. In the meantime, I'm adding a few more things that incorporate some of what you mentioned.
[EDIT] Forget to mention this as well. All those different guns you have there, I'd personally just use one basic pistol and say that different kinds of guns are guns that have special qualities, like a magic properties or the off-hand quality or high-crit quality. I suppose that there could be some advantage somewhere to statting out every single gun and trying to differentiate them and legitimize why they aren't just the same things, but I find that simply saying they're different guns is a lot easier than making it a mechanical issue.
What if you were to do this with the above weapons stats I mentioned? Target the opponent's reflex score instead of his armor class when shooting him with a gun, but the medeaval armor still has some benefit, subtract the armor defense bonus from the damage inflicted by the gun on the target. in other words that suit of plate mail slows down the bullet subtracting 8 hit points from whatever the damage that is inflicted after a hit is achieved, so if you roll 2d8 and get a 12, the suit subtracts 8 hit points of damage leaving 4 points inflicted on the character inside the suit, that means if you shoot someone wearing no armor he takes the full damage.
I still think 1d4 points of damage is too puny for a laser pistol, perhaps a laser pistol we might build now, but the point is, if laser pistols were so inferior, then people would stick with guns firing bullets. Also consider the point that 4e characters start with more hit points than the old 3e characters, they add their constition scores to their initial hit points, and constitution averages around 10 points, 4 hit points from a laser pistol is only going to injure him and would have no chance of knocking him out with the first shot, maybe one of the 1-hit point wonder NPCs might be knocked down in this way.
The other point is the range of that laser pistol is way too short, instead of having the maximum range being only twice the initial short range number, you should consider making it ten times that amount like in my above examples. One of the factors involved with the maximum range of medeaval ranged weapons is the fact that the fall to Earth and don't go any further, a laser beam keeps on going in a straight line, the only limiting factors here is the precision at increased distances and the fact that the beam itself eventually spreads out and loses its intensity, bullets likewise travel much faster than arrows, the range drops off way before the bullets hit the earth due to gravity. You can shoot a bullet much further than you can reliably hit a target in other words, pistols aren't know for their long ranges, but surely that can do better than a bow and arrow. The advatage of modern weapons is primarily that their reach is much greater than primitive weapons that rely on human muscle.
While its true that post-apocolyptic doesn't necessitate a lack of magic, this is intended for games without magic. If a person wants to run a magical apocolypse game, they don't have to change wizards and warlocks and clerics, they can just make them rarer or...more common...I don't know, they could do something.
This is, in addition to changing it around so as to remove magic from the equation, a springboard for other 4e settings that have little to no 'magical magic,' instead using science or the Force or whatever. For example, the above rules with minor tweakage can change 4e into Star Wars (I know there's already Saga for that, but I was less than impressed with that...) or any other sci-fi setting. It can also make for an acceptable near-future or modern setting. And, if you're really feeling crazy, it works quite nicely for a steampunk setting with mad scientists and monsters and other crazy stuff (a la Girl Genius).
So, yes, while the settings can be magical and dark without changing anything, simple reflavorings and minor changes can further change whats written out above into even more settings with even crazier things.
Also, does anybody feel like writing up some paragon paths that fit any of the aforementioned themes?
I think a Post-Apocolyptic setting shouldn't have "mumbo jumbo" magic in it, effects shouldn't be achieve simply by waving your hands around and saying the right magic words, the "magic" is in all the artifacts left behind, technological "magic" in other words. Another possibility is to introduce mutants, in this way we would be reintroducing the old GammaWorld setting as we would then have all the elements for one. I for one would like to reintroduce the Star Frontiers setting compatible for the 4e game. Much of what we might use for GammaWorld, might also be used for Star Frontiers. I see no reason to reinvent the wheel with personal weapons.
I think if your going to make a laser pistol a 1 hit dice weapon make it do 1d12 points of damage, make the laser rifle do the same but give it a greater range to reflect its greater accuracy. I would want a certain sense of dread if characters going up against someone with a laser pistol had only arrows and swords.
I like your idea, and dark future settings in general, but just wanted to point out that "Post-Apocolyptic" does not have to mean high tech/low magic if you prefer low tech/high magic (or psionic) settings. See "Dark Sun" or "Earthdawn", which is coming out for 4e incidently, as an example. Just substitute nuclear war with magical catastrophe, global pandemic with zombies/vampires/mutants, planetoid/asteriod collision with angry deities and you've got an apocolypse.
There is another sort of Post Apocolyptic setting that would be the Biblical Post Apocolypse, involving the four horsemen and angles passing judgement, they main problem with this for me is that I don't like to play God with a capital 'G', especially the judgemental all-knowing Christian God passing judgment on mankind and weighing each characters sins and determining whether he goes to Heaven or is damned for all eternity to Hell, that is a bit much for me in a game setting.
I am currently working on Gunslinger paragon path, gonna post it when I have more done.
What if you were to do this with the above weapons stats I mentioned? Target the opponent's reflex score instead of his armor class when shooting him with a gun, but the medeaval armor still has some benefit, subtract the armor defense bonus from the damage inflicted by the gun on the target...
I still think 1d4 points of damage is too puny for a laser pistol, perhaps a laser pistol we might build now, but the point is, if laser pistols were so inferior, then people would stick with guns firing bullets...
The other point is the range of that laser pistol is way too short, instead of having the maximum range being only twice the initial short range number, you should consider making it ten times that amount like in my above examples...
I added a weapon quality that can be added onto lasers to do the first thing, and I also added a quality to target fortitude (so the beam is more like a wide area of intense heat than a focused point of energy). I might think about trying to change the armor like that when I have access to my books, but for now, armor continues to boost AC and doesn't provide any resistances unless its enhanced/enchanted (sci-fi/magic setting) to do so.
The 1d4 and the damage with the rest of the weapons is so that they'll be balanced with the rest of the weapons. You need to remember that all of the laser weapons can change a melee range paladin power into a ranged paladin power with no loss to effectiveness. The laser pistol wouldn't be a character's main weapon anyways, but a backup weapon like the sling. You could use it as your main weapon, but you would probably be better off switching to something else.
That's how ranges are handled in 4ed, but, now that you mention it, I think I'll change that. Maximum gun range is three times normal range, maximum laser range is four times normal range. After that point, the guns are less than accurate, and the laser are little more than warm laser pointers or flashlights.
Mongrel
Without a homeland of their own, Mongrel blend into other societies and try their best to adapt.
Average Height: As human
Average Weight: As human
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Abilities: +2 to any one ability score chosen at the beginning of each day
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low Light
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Languages: Common
Skills: +2 Disguise
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Bonus Feat: Any one bonus feat
Emulate Ability: At the beginning of every day, choose a racial power usable on a per encounter basis. For the remainder of the day, you have access to this power as though you were a member of that race.
Imitation: A Mongrel is treated as a member of the race whose power they are emulating. This does not allow you to take feats that require being a member of a given race, however.
Mutable Defense: At the beginning of the day, choose Fortitude, Reflex, or Will. You gain a +1 bonus to that defense. At the end of each Short Rest period, you may change to which defense this applies.
Mongrels have no natural dwelling grounds, mixing freely with all the races of the world. Some prefer the deep homes of the dwarves, while other enjoy the treetop abodes of the elves. Their natural talent for altering themselves comes in handy, helping them to be almost as lithe, almost as clever, and almost as strong as whoever their neighbors happen to be.
Play a Mongrel if you want...
- A race that can be good at a different thing every day
- An adventurer who can adapt his fighting style with ease
- A race with many rogues and wizards. Classes that give the adventurer multiple things to do in and out of battle are very common among Mongrels
Physical Qualities:
Their features range from baseline human to vaguely elven to brutally orcish to calmly draconic. Some are tall, some are short. Some are thin, some are wide. Generally, however, they tend to appear like some sort of variation of human.
Playing Mongrels:
Playing a Mongrel can be a challenge. They don't have as many bonuses as other races, but their daily choice of bonus points and racial power means that they can prepare for encounters much better than many other characters.
Mongrel Characteristics: Unique, wild, demure, mysterious, odd, excited
Male Names: Stan, Hy'thrael, Keethrax, Llewenhooke, Clyde, Albertus
Female Names: Uunundia, Jill, Hash'kissar, Missy, Alexis
[u]Racial Feats[/u]
Heroic Teir
Toughened Shifting [Mongrel]
Prerequisites: Mongrel
Benefit: Your bonus from Mutable Defense increases to +2.
Paragon Teir
Versatile Shifting [Mongrel]
Prerequisites: Mongrel, Character Level 11
Benefit: You may choose two defense to apply the bonus from Mutable Defense to.
Special: If you took the Toughened Shifting feat, both defenses chosen are increased by +2.
Racial Shifting [Mongrel]
Prerequisites: Mongrel, Character Level 11
Benefit: This feat allows you to emulate a Heroic Teir feat every day from the race whose power you are emulating that day. You choose the feat to be emulated at the beginning of each day.
Special: If you choose a feat that modifies an ability you do not possess, the feat is wasted and no benefit is gained.
Reposting my mongrel race as a starting point for designing a build-a-mutant race.
Also while were on this subject, what are the origins of fantasy races in a post-apocolyptic world.
How do you get elves for instance?
Presumably they are the result of genetic manipulation or mutation of some sort. There is an understandable desire of some in the pre-apocolyptic world to extend their lifespan and elves have long lives.
Dwarves were engineered to live underground, I'd also add that in a post Apocolyptic they are probably more resistant to radiation and mutation, they could handle substances and tolerate radiation levels that would kill or sicken normal humans, this was engineered to dwarves could mine uranium out of the mountain side, they are also more resistant to poisonous gases such as carbon monoxide and so forth.
With the depletion of the World's natural resources, some effort when into engineering small humans that use less of that, and thus the halfling was born, at an average stature of around 4 feet, some eco-mined people felt that with the less food intake that these beings require, their would be less inpact on the environment by their agriculture. Halfling never quite caught on, and were always a minority of sorts.
The Dragonborn, who knows? Just plain mutants perhaps.
Some people who wanted to live under the sea made some merfolk.
Also what other races can we expect to find?
Members of other races with mutations are called mutants, and are, at best, strange.
Average Height: As base race
Average Weight: As base race
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Abilities: +2 to an ability score the base race has a bonus to, +2 to another ability score from a different set (If the bonus from the race was physical (STR, CON, or DEX), the other bonus must be mental (INT, WIS, CHA) and a bonus the base race doesn't receive, and vice versa)
Size: As base race, unless player chooses to change it (if small, mutant may choose medium. If medium, mutant may choose large or small. If large, mutant may choose medium)
Speed: As base race, -1 if size decreases, +1 if size increases
Vision: As base race
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Languages: Common
Skills: +2 to a skill that uses the key attribute of the bonus derived from the race if the character isn't large. If no size change was chosen, the mutant receives a +2 to a skill that uses the second chosen bonus attribute.
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Bonus Feat: Any one bonus feat
Racial Ability: Mutants posess the base race's racial ability.
Racial Aspect: Mutants choose one special ability possesed by the base race (like a Dwarf's Second Wind).
As an example of what mutants can be, I'm going to make Elditch_Lord's 4e Minotaurs into two very different kinds of mutants. (Follow the link to see the base minotaur race)