Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gmhack Oct 04, 2010 10:07:37	I have been running a homebrew game since 4e came out and there is one conclusion that has slapped me in the face: Daze & Stun have a much larger effect on defenders than any other role. Essentially both of these statuses say "You don't get to meaningfully contribute as your role is intended to, try again later." And to me this is not a fun thing to have to say at all, much less with the frequency that those two effects show up in the game. That being the case I am toying with some changes to the two, and was curious to get some feedback. [Note: I have been playing with the stun change for a few weeks now and it seems workable] Daze: You grant combat advantage, cannot flank, and until the end of the daze effect you may only take one action per round. This may be a standard, move, minor or opportunity or immediate action. Stun: You grant combat advantage, cannot flank, and until the end of the Stun effect you may only take one action per round. This may only be a move or minor action. I would be interested in seeing what people think. Thanks in advance for your time.
#2 pluisjen Oct 04, 2010 10:27:36	I don't see how the Daze change helps a Fighter, who still can't contribute meaningfully. It helps most of the others though, so it's a step up. I don't see how the Stun helps Fighters either, and I think most of the other Defenders also can't defend with a Minor Action only, except for maybe the Paladin.
#3 gmhack Oct 04, 2010 10:36:28	I don't see how the Daze change helps a Fighter, who still can't contribute meaningfully. It helps most of the others though, so it's a step up. I don't see how the Stun helps Fighters either, and I think most of the other Defenders also can't defend with a Minor Action only, except for maybe the Paladin.  With the daze still allowing an opportunity attack it still lets the fighter do his mark punishment. I am curious as to why you feel this is more limiting to the fighter than others.   And as far as the stun goes, being that it is a less common effect, I feel that it is appropriate to have it be more limiting, but the aim is to attempt to give people something to do rather than just saying "My turns over." [My issues with Stun were more general and not specifically defender, which if why I applied it already]
#4 mplindustries Oct 04, 2010 10:44:46	I don't see how the Daze change helps a Fighter, who still can't contribute meaningfully. It helps most of the others though, so it's a step up. I don't see how the Stun helps Fighters either, and I think most of the other Defenders also can't defend with a Minor Action only, except for maybe the Paladin.  With the daze still allowing an opportunity attack it still lets the fighter do his mark punishment. I am curious as to why you feel this is more limiting to the fighter than others.   Because the Fighter and Warden have to actively mark, as their marks only last one turn and require either an attack, or a special action, so they are left to choose between marking or punishing (meaning they still can't punish).
#5 gmhack Oct 04, 2010 11:05:30	I hadn't thought of that. (We haven't had any fighters in any of the campaigns yet, and the one warden we had seemed to not be bothered by effects much due to the Font of Life Ability) Any ideas on how to tweek it to be more fighter friendly?
#6 pluisjen Oct 04, 2010 15:58:26	You could always give them One standard + One off-turn action (a single Opportunity Action or a single Immediate Action before their next turn). That's severely limiting, but not crippling. But this is messing with the core of the system... if you feel that you want Defenders to be less limited, perhaps you are better off giving them access to an extra Feat/Class Feature/Item/Whatever that allows them to partially ignore these features. It's a more direct fix, rather then a large one that's bound to hit on other parts of the system as well Best way to find out though, is to just try.
#7 DanTracker Oct 07, 2010 6:48:29	best option is to reduce how often it is being used. If the PCs have powers that create dazed or stunned conditions for enemies, the enemies ought to have about the same ratios of access to the condition.