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Marching Order Initiative

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thecasualoblivion
Jul 04, 2009 10:31:04 I'm contemplating a new initiative system that factors in marching order. Those in front should be able to act a little faster than those in the back. What I'm thinking is that one person would roll initiative for the entire party, and hand out the results from lowest to highest in the party's marching order. Those in front would get the highest numbers, and those in back would get the lowest.
#2
Nerpherder
Jul 04, 2009 12:35:26 I can see the merits of your idea, I think however you might need make it the PCs closer to the action get to react quicker.

I got a couple of ideas for you. Instead of rolling multiple d20 for every player, the “Leader” could roll 1 d20 then each PC adds their respective Initiative bonuses. Then you as the DM give out the Marching Order Initiative bonus. To make thinks easy Id say quickly divide the party in to three; Front, Middle, and Rear. Then give each PC a “Marching Order” Initiative bonus say a +4 for the Front, a +2 for the Middle and no modifier for the rear.

As a side note, are you enemies also going to get “Marching Order” bonuses?

-Nerp
#3
countesskathleen
Jul 04, 2009 18:58:25 The question is what good would it do for you or your party?

Usually the controllers will want to act early so they can place their Area Effects before the enemies spread out. However they probably don't want to be on the front line.
The Rogue's First Strike feature would pretty much force him to march up front so he can benefit from it. But if he doesn't, why would the Fighter act fast just because the Rogue in the back has good reflexes. Does he tell the Fighter to get moving while hanging back and awaiting the action?

What is a party likely to do? Won't they just alter their marching order according to who wants to go first and then the character just takes his move action to move to where he actually want's to be during the fight?

I believe that fiddling with the Initiative like that is going to lead to some wacky results that are likely to corrupt what I perceive to be your valid intent to make those closer to the action act sooner.
Is there any specific issue you have with marching order and initiative that made you think about this houserule? Perhaps it can be adressed differently.
#4
AbdulAlhazred
Jul 05, 2009 18:06:52 Given that PCs can move through each other's spaces I don't really see why you need this. If the melee ranger happens to be behind the fighter and has higher init, he just moves up through the fighter to get into position. Or if he wants the fighter to go first, then he delays.

I could maybe see the logic of having some PC that is straggling far back from the action when combat starts going later, but in that case he's probably going to have to spend his turn moving up anyhow.

I think your scheme will work OK, or some form of it will. I just don't know what it accomplishes. Go for it if it assuages some need your group has to feel like combat is more realistic (though I don't think this is especially more realistic than the RAW version). Personally I don't need more complexity added to things though. Not for such a marginal return.
#5
quiterjon_dup
Jul 06, 2009 12:08:07 Dm: "what's the marching order again?"
Players: "5 abreast"
#6
gregt_314
Jul 06, 2009 18:41:34 I'm not sure it actually IS realistic for those at the front to act before those at the back; you're assuming that visual contact is the trigger for everyone starting to act, and that attacks always come directly from in front, but I don't think that's always a safe assumption.

If - if - you were to do it your way, I assume it's just handing out the rolls - that is, everyone still applies their individual bonuses to the rolls they get. Otherwise it's just flat out terrible.

The rest of what I have to say on initiative I've said before - you can check it out at my blog.
#7
thecasualoblivion
Jul 06, 2009 21:16:10 Yes it is handing out the rolls in party order, and everybody gets their individual modifiers.

I've tried it in one game so far and it didn't work too bad. There was a party discussion on who was to stand where and who was going to have the best chance to go first. That a character like a Wizard or Rogue can take point and go sooner is a choice if they want to risk it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thecasualoblivion Jul 04, 2009 10:31:04	I'm contemplating a new initiative system that factors in marching order. Those in front should be able to act a little faster than those in the back. What I'm thinking is that one person would roll initiative for the entire party, and hand out the results from lowest to highest in the party's marching order. Those in front would get the highest numbers, and those in back would get the lowest.
#2 Nerpherder Jul 04, 2009 12:35:26	I can see the merits of your idea, I think however you might need make it the PCs closer to the action get to react quicker. I got a couple of ideas for you. Instead of rolling multiple d20 for every player, the “Leader” could roll 1 d20 then each PC adds their respective Initiative bonuses. Then you as the DM give out the Marching Order Initiative bonus. To make thinks easy Id say quickly divide the party in to three; Front, Middle, and Rear. Then give each PC a “Marching Order” Initiative bonus say a +4 for the Front, a +2 for the Middle and no modifier for the rear. As a side note, are you enemies also going to get “Marching Order” bonuses? -Nerp
#3 countesskathleen Jul 04, 2009 18:58:25	The question is what good would it do for you or your party? Usually the controllers will want to act early so they can place their Area Effects before the enemies spread out. However they probably don't want to be on the front line. The Rogue's First Strike feature would pretty much force him to march up front so he can benefit from it. But if he doesn't, why would the Fighter act fast just because the Rogue in the back has good reflexes. Does he tell the Fighter to get moving while hanging back and awaiting the action? What is a party likely to do? Won't they just alter their marching order according to who wants to go first and then the character just takes his move action to move to where he actually want's to be during the fight? I believe that fiddling with the Initiative like that is going to lead to some wacky results that are likely to corrupt what I perceive to be your valid intent to make those closer to the action act sooner. Is there any specific issue you have with marching order and initiative that made you think about this houserule? Perhaps it can be adressed differently.
#4 AbdulAlhazred Jul 05, 2009 18:06:52	Given that PCs can move through each other's spaces I don't really see why you need this. If the melee ranger happens to be behind the fighter and has higher init, he just moves up through the fighter to get into position. Or if he wants the fighter to go first, then he delays. I could maybe see the logic of having some PC that is straggling far back from the action when combat starts going later, but in that case he's probably going to have to spend his turn moving up anyhow. I think your scheme will work OK, or some form of it will. I just don't know what it accomplishes. Go for it if it assuages some need your group has to feel like combat is more realistic (though I don't think this is especially more realistic than the RAW version). Personally I don't need more complexity added to things though. Not for such a marginal return.
#5 quiterjon_dup Jul 06, 2009 12:08:07	Dm: "what's the marching order again?" Players: "5 abreast"
#6 gregt_314 Jul 06, 2009 18:41:34	I'm not sure it actually IS realistic for those at the front to act before those at the back; you're assuming that visual contact is the trigger for everyone starting to act, and that attacks always come directly from in front, but I don't think that's always a safe assumption. If - if - you were to do it your way, I assume it's just handing out the rolls - that is, everyone still applies their individual bonuses to the rolls they get. Otherwise it's just flat out terrible. The rest of what I have to say on initiative I've said before - you can check it out at my blog.
#7 thecasualoblivion Jul 06, 2009 21:16:10	Yes it is handing out the rolls in party order, and everybody gets their individual modifiers. I've tried it in one game so far and it didn't work too bad. There was a party discussion on who was to stand where and who was going to have the best chance to go first. That a character like a Wizard or Rogue can take point and go sooner is a choice if they want to risk it.