Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 UsagiYojimbo Aug 14, 2008 7:11:15	I never used monks in 3rd but I did use fighters that fought unarmed. 4th edition has taken great steps to balance the system and at times that has meant the removal of options available in 3rd. Unarmed combat had some problems, but I liked it. Using these helpful house-rules posted by Pinnacle as a basis for balance I have created this. Please keep this in mind when evaluating.: Pinnacle;16389989 wrote:
#2 ymuckluck Aug 15, 2008 0:46:52	I don't want to totally abandon the 3.5 monk: Consider adding these: Free Armor Specialization(Hide) at 11th level. Also If you're wearing light armor or no armor you may add your dexterity, intelligence, or wisdom modifier whichever is higher to your armor class. When fighting in light armor and unarmed you get a +1 bonus to your attack rolls. These are in addition to what you have. Also: Attack 11 Catch Blade Martial Artist Attack 11 Your enemy slips up and you grab his weapon as he swings at you, throwing it to the side and gaining the advantage. Daily * Martial, Stance Minor Action Personal Effect: When an enemy attack misses you they take a -2 penalty to attacks against you until the end of their next turn.
#3 UsagiYojimbo Aug 15, 2008 4:10:02	I don't mean to say that monks are bad or unworthy, but I never played one so I don't really know what to keep. They were a crazy class, Quivering Palm being a good example. I am looking to make more of a fighter that chooses to use his fists instead of a weapon. I want this path to available to a character that uses Asian style martial arts as well as a bar-room brawler or a boxer. For that reason I am moving the abilities away from mobility/striker abilities. I want to move it into more of a Defender direction. For that reason I am thinking of replacing Tumble and Rumble with something else and I would love suggestions. I was thinking of monks when I did this, sorta by accident and you helped me see that. Thank you, and thanks for catching the problem with my stance power. Also I love your Gnomish Champion Path, I have it sticky noted into my players handbook in the Fighter Paragon Path section (Just because it's the first Defender in the book).
#4 ymuckluck Aug 15, 2008 4:28:49	Do you plan on this path having guys wearing plate/scale and fighting with gauntlets? This was my idea for quivering palm. I just liked the name actually. Quivering Palm Encounter. Martial, Weapon Standard Action melee weapon Target: One Creature Attack: Strengh vs. Fortitude Hit: 3[W] + Wisdom Modifier Damage. The target is marked (Save ends). When the target makes his save the target then takes a -2 penalty for all attacks that do not include you as a target (save ends). Miss: Wisdom modifier damage.
#5 ymuckluck Aug 15, 2008 4:34:22	Ridiculously cool cloth fighting style Utility 12 Daily. Martial, Stance minor action Effect: While in this stance you get a +2 Bonus to AC and Fortitude and a +1 Bonus to Reflex. If an enemy misses you with a melee attack as an immediate reaction you may shift one square and then make a melee basic attack against that opponent if they are within range.
#6 UsagiYojimbo Aug 15, 2008 7:34:59	Well you could play the character with Cloth Armor specialty and some mobility feats or you could bust into combat wearing black spiky Plate Mail and crushing skulls with your bare hands. I want to build abilities that could be Ki based karate strikes as well as brutal right hooks and knees to the groin.
#7 vonklaude Aug 15, 2008 11:19:05	Catch Blade Martial Artist Attack 11 Your enemy slips up and you grab his weapon as he swings at you, throwing it to the side and gaining the advantage. If he persists you monopolize on his disorientation and strike him. Daily * Martial, Stance, Weapon Minor Action Personal Effect: When an enemy attack misses you they take a -2 penalty to attacks against you until the end of their next turn. If the enemy makes an attack while this penalty is in effect they take 1[W]. [b] . I like this. Has a good feel. -vk
#8 toastedamphibian Aug 15, 2008 19:30:20	Can you take a minor action when it isnt your turn? I think it should probably be an imediat action on catch blade. Edit: oh, its a stance. Nevermind) Also this path is much more benificial to a rogue. Epect to see alot of rogues with the first multiclass fighter feat in your games. They have less to lose from wearing no armor and no weapons. The extra mobility is nice, but the +4 to defences for moving around in comat, something they are gonig to be doing anyways, is great. Its a good thing SA only works once a round. The initial attack on throat punch should really be AC or mabey Reflex. The secondary attack works as good vs fort.
#9 UsagiYojimbo Aug 15, 2008 20:18:07	I agree about the attack type for Throat Punch, I'm going to go with Reflex because its supposed to be a strike to a vulnerable spot and it wouldn't work through armor so well... However I didn't write anything about no armor. Is there some sort of ruling I missed that is related to one of my powers or features. I don't intend for Martial Artists to not wear armor. I expect to add some additional feats designed to give some more benefits to not using traditional weapons. I was thinking about something to do with throwing opponents or knocking them prone. As a related question would a Rogue with the Multiclass Fighter feat count as a fighter for the purposes of a Paragon path. If so I might add in something that would prevents this. I want this to be a Defender Path. I don't mind the other way around-Fighter with the Rogue Multiclass feat.
#10 jopustopin Aug 15, 2008 20:43:04	Prerequisite: You must have the ability to mark an opponent multiple times per encounter?
#11 toastedamphibian Aug 15, 2008 20:57:29	Hmm, my apologies. For some reason i assumed you had to be unarmored to get the defense bonouses. Just my own leftover 3e prejudices. Yes, the multi class feat does let anyone take this path, as it is currently written. If you want it to be a strictly defender paragon path, why does it screeam striker? You know, extra attacks, extra mobility, extra damage. It has nothing that really increases stikyness. Mostly it just increases your ability to strike at the best spots and strike them more soundly. Have you considered Throat Punch Combo Martial Artist Attack 20 You strike swiftly and viciously into your opponent’s most vulnerable spot and then kick them when they’re down. Daily * Martial Standard Action Melee Weapon Target: One Creature Attack: Strength vs. Reflex Hit: 3[W]+Strength modifier damage Effect: Make a secondary attack. Secondary Attack: Strength+3 vs. Fortitude Hit: 2[W]+Strength modifier damage and the target is stunned and weakened (save ends both). Now you need to hit them to use the attack, which makes sense, and also your odds of suceeding on the rider effect is slightly increased as a result. Somehow attacking their fortitude with a fist, without having to hit them first, just seems wrong to me.
#12 UsagiYojimbo Aug 15, 2008 21:48:40	Part of the Strikerness is that in order to make being unarmed worthwhile their need to be damage bonuses. I wanted Pugilistic Specilization to make Opportunity attacks better as I feel they are central to being a good fighter. Catch Blade is meant to make you more bulwarky so that anyone adjacent to you pretty much take a penalty to attacks. The the more I think about it the more I want to replace Tumble and Rumble, it's too mobility based. I want it to be something where you can grab opponents or trip them to hold the line. The problem I am facing is that I can't for the life of me find a clear explanation of what happens when you are grabbed. My understanding is that you can't move unless you escape and that the person grabbing you can move you around. Is this accurate? It feels like I'm missing something. Have you considered Throat Punch Combo Martial Artist Attack 20 You strike swiftly and viciously into your opponent’s most vulnerable spot and then kick them when they’re down. Daily * Martial Standard Action Melee Weapon Target: One Creature Attack: Strength vs. Reflex Hit: 3[W]+Strength modifier damage Effect: Make a secondary attack. Secondary Attack: Strength+3 vs. Fortitude Hit: 2[W]+Strength modifier damage and the target is stunned and weakened (save ends both). Now you need to hit them to use the attack, which makes sense, and also your odds of suceeding on the rider effect is slightly increased as a result. Somehow attacking their fortitude with a fist, without having to hit them first, just seems wrong to me. I went back and edited it to be like this but I screwed up and changed the secondary attack to Reflex. I agree with you and will do it right this time. Should I change Combo Action to something more Defendery? And if so can I have to suggestions as to what to change it too. Same thing with Tumble and Rumble. I want something that really works for a Defender.
#13 UsagiYojimbo Aug 15, 2008 21:53:46	Prerequisite: You must have the ability to mark an opponent multiple times per encounter? Good suggestion, added it in.
#14 UsagiYojimbo Aug 16, 2008 6:07:02	Here is my updated Martial Artist. I have changed up the least Defenderlike abilities. However I am not entirely sure that the Feature or the Power that I added are really legal. In case it is unclear Tripping Action is supposed to make it so when you use an action point to attack again in a round it knocks them prone. Intense Defense is a little more complicated I think. What I was hoping for is a power that makes it so when your Mark moves you make an opportunity attack, then as an Immediate Reaction to the opportunity attack you can move so you are then next your Mark again. Then if your mark keeps moving you can make another opportunity or if they stay where they are then you are still next to them. "My body is the perfect weapon. While you need steel to cut your enemies down. I am always armed. Prerequisite: Fighter Class, You must be able to Mark an opponent multiple times in an encounter. Your body is a weapon. You can move through the battlefield and strike with a fluidity other warriors could never achieve because you and your weapon truly are one. Martial Artist Path Features: Tripping Action: When you spend an action point to take an extra attack action the attack gains: Effect: Opponent is knocked prone. Pugilistic Specialization(11th Level): You gain a +1 bonus to unarmed attacks. In addition your opportunity attacks are more fluid, whenever you make an opportunity attack you may add your Wisdom modifier as bonus damage. Fists of Iron (16th Level): You gain a +4 bonus to damage rolls with unarmed attacks. Catch Blade Martial Artist Attack 11 Your enemy slips up and you grab his weapon as he swings at you, throwing it to the side and gaining the advantage. If he persists you monopolize on his disorientation and strike him. Daily * Martial, Stance, Weapon Minor Action Personal Effect: When an enemy attack misses you they take a -2 penalty to attacks against you until the end of their next turn. If the enemy makes an attack while this penalty is in effect they take 1[W]. Intense Defense Martial Artist Utility 12 You lock eyes with your foe. By focusing your mind on his movements you can keep him boxed in to a small area. Daily*Martial Immediate Interrupt Personal Trigger: Your make an opportunity attack against your mark. Effect: You may shift one square. Throat Punch Combo Martial Artist Attack 20 You strike swiftly and viciously into your opponent’s most vulnerable spot and then kick them when they’re down. Daily * Martial Standard Action Melee Weapon Target: One Creature Attack: Strength vs. Reflex Hit: 3[W]+Strength modifier damage Effect: Make a secondary attack. Secondary Attack: Strength+3 vs. Fortitude Hit: 2[W]+Strength modifier damage and the target is stunned and weakened (save ends both).
#15 ymuckluck Aug 16, 2008 12:57:27	Unarmed attacks have no innate proficiency. What this means is that a kensei using a longsword has +4 to hit. A martial artist paragon using his fist have a +1 to hit.
#16 UsagiYojimbo Aug 16, 2008 21:50:10	Not if you get the Improved Unarmed Strike feat presented at the beginning of this post.