Mass Combat Homebrew Work-In-Progress - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Mass Combat Homebrew Work-In-Progress

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
neechen
Aug 22, 2008 19:46:53 I've seen a few threads asking for a mass combat system and I know that sometimes I'd love to have the PCs involved in larger more global battles, so here is my first thoughts for making a mass combat system for 4e.

I’ve decided to use Skill Challenge mechanic to make it different than just combat and to speed up the process.

This way, depending on the battle situation and relative size or composition, the DM can set a difficulty level and complexity level. For the difficulty level, use average PC level at Hard level for most battles. (Of course, the specific DC should really depend on how hard DM feels the action should be). For complexity level, I suggest using the number that gives each PC in the party 2chances to perform in a skirmish, 3 chances in a battle and 4 chances in a major war.

In battle, all PCs must say what they will do to help their side. This can include attack (use attack bonus as modifier) or defend (use bonus to AC as modifier), use a skill, etc. Really good ideas that seem consistent with character concept will gain +2 bonus.

If a PC fails a Skill Check, the PC will take battle damage according to how large the conflict is. (For this, DM can use the table in DMs guide - page 42 - to assign proper damage per level). If a PC goes down, other PCs can try to heal just like in combat or Clerics, Paladins, or other PCs with healing powers can use their powers instead of taking a Skill Check turn.

If the party incurs 3 failures, before they succeed, they must fall back and regroup. This resets the Skill Challenge, but it also causes each character to take battle damage. In this case, the enemy forces are pushing the PCs and their forces back.

Discuss, advise, use if you like.
#2
UsagiYojimbo
Aug 23, 2008 13:44:11 What are the numbers your thinking of here. Because I'm thinking that there should be sort of a floating NPC aspect to represent the PC's allies. I don't know if the allies should have separate rolls, just because it might end up stealing the PC's thunder as it were, but maybe they have a flat number value depending on their size and skill level which determines what checks they succeed at. That way you could include them in the struggle without taking up any extra time or having them dominate the battle. Just throwing that idea out there, if anyone has a cooler way of incorporating allies I yield to you.
#3
neechen
Aug 23, 2008 17:59:55 I see what you mean. The PCs should have most of the responsibility, but there will be hundreds if not thousands of others fighting in the battle or war.

On the other hand, if one army is fighting another army of equal strength, then the masses on each side, kind of cancel each other out. That makes the PCs the unaccounted for variable so they should be in the spot light.

If there are any significant NPCs with the PCs, they could join the skill challenge, but in most conflicts, I'd assume that for every key NPC on the PCs side, there will be an equally talented NPC on the other side, and they would cancel each other out too.

If the army sizes are not comparable, say the PCs side only have 100 but the evil army has 1000, this should be reflected in the DC that the DM sets for the skill challenge. Instead of 15 at 1st through 3rd level, perhaps it will be 20.

Keep the ideas coming. We may be on to something with this mass combat "game within the game."
#4
UsagiYojimbo
Aug 23, 2008 18:36:16 Okay, I can see that.

I see that your going for simplicity here so I am tending away from my normal style which can be quite complex. Battles might be more fun though if they took place in sections. Not like a three part TV episode but like a game board. Say three parts. That way the PC's could fail and be pushed back and then turn the battle around in a triumphant flourish. Or if they won too easily then the enemy could suddenly bring in a big, trained monster or siege engine to make the second-half of the battle more interesting.

Also there was an interesting mechanic in one of the Adventures in the Savage Tide adventure path. The PC's had a couple weeks to prepare for a siege, during that time they accrued special points for a number of different preparations they could do. Actually the one that I remember was capturing and domesticating Dinosaurs from the nearby jungle. Then when the battle started they had some special events they had to interact with, fighting major NPC's, supporting allies, sabotaging enemy ships. After all that they had a score which determined the battles outcome and the direction that the rest of the campaign went. Not so much what you are talking about but I think it's a good variant for when the PC's have prep time or are defending a position.
#5
neechen
Aug 25, 2008 8:14:17 Great ideas. With a simple system, DM has freedom to add and change whatever he likes. So, if DM wants to make PCs prepare for battle, he can add that as a skill challenge. If PCs lose first part of a mass combat and are pushed back, they can regroup and perhaps DM can let them get ready for the 2nd wave. Thanks for the ideas.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 neechen Aug 22, 2008 19:46:53	I've seen a few threads asking for a mass combat system and I know that sometimes I'd love to have the PCs involved in larger more global battles, so here is my first thoughts for making a mass combat system for 4e. I’ve decided to use Skill Challenge mechanic to make it different than just combat and to speed up the process. This way, depending on the battle situation and relative size or composition, the DM can set a difficulty level and complexity level. For the difficulty level, use average PC level at Hard level for most battles. (Of course, the specific DC should really depend on how hard DM feels the action should be). For complexity level, I suggest using the number that gives each PC in the party 2chances to perform in a skirmish, 3 chances in a battle and 4 chances in a major war. In battle, all PCs must say what they will do to help their side. This can include attack (use attack bonus as modifier) or defend (use bonus to AC as modifier), use a skill, etc. Really good ideas that seem consistent with character concept will gain +2 bonus. If a PC fails a Skill Check, the PC will take battle damage according to how large the conflict is. (For this, DM can use the table in DMs guide - page 42 - to assign proper damage per level). If a PC goes down, other PCs can try to heal just like in combat or Clerics, Paladins, or other PCs with healing powers can use their powers instead of taking a Skill Check turn. If the party incurs 3 failures, before they succeed, they must fall back and regroup. This resets the Skill Challenge, but it also causes each character to take battle damage. In this case, the enemy forces are pushing the PCs and their forces back. Discuss, advise, use if you like.
#2 UsagiYojimbo Aug 23, 2008 13:44:11	What are the numbers your thinking of here. Because I'm thinking that there should be sort of a floating NPC aspect to represent the PC's allies. I don't know if the allies should have separate rolls, just because it might end up stealing the PC's thunder as it were, but maybe they have a flat number value depending on their size and skill level which determines what checks they succeed at. That way you could include them in the struggle without taking up any extra time or having them dominate the battle. Just throwing that idea out there, if anyone has a cooler way of incorporating allies I yield to you.
#3 neechen Aug 23, 2008 17:59:55	I see what you mean. The PCs should have most of the responsibility, but there will be hundreds if not thousands of others fighting in the battle or war. On the other hand, if one army is fighting another army of equal strength, then the masses on each side, kind of cancel each other out. That makes the PCs the unaccounted for variable so they should be in the spot light. If there are any significant NPCs with the PCs, they could join the skill challenge, but in most conflicts, I'd assume that for every key NPC on the PCs side, there will be an equally talented NPC on the other side, and they would cancel each other out too. If the army sizes are not comparable, say the PCs side only have 100 but the evil army has 1000, this should be reflected in the DC that the DM sets for the skill challenge. Instead of 15 at 1st through 3rd level, perhaps it will be 20. Keep the ideas coming. We may be on to something with this mass combat "game within the game."
#4 UsagiYojimbo Aug 23, 2008 18:36:16	Okay, I can see that. I see that your going for simplicity here so I am tending away from my normal style which can be quite complex. Battles might be more fun though if they took place in sections. Not like a three part TV episode but like a game board. Say three parts. That way the PC's could fail and be pushed back and then turn the battle around in a triumphant flourish. Or if they won too easily then the enemy could suddenly bring in a big, trained monster or siege engine to make the second-half of the battle more interesting. Also there was an interesting mechanic in one of the Adventures in the Savage Tide adventure path. The PC's had a couple weeks to prepare for a siege, during that time they accrued special points for a number of different preparations they could do. Actually the one that I remember was capturing and domesticating Dinosaurs from the nearby jungle. Then when the battle started they had some special events they had to interact with, fighting major NPC's, supporting allies, sabotaging enemy ships. After all that they had a score which determined the battles outcome and the direction that the rest of the campaign went. Not so much what you are talking about but I think it's a good variant for when the PC's have prep time or are defending a position.
#5 neechen Aug 25, 2008 8:14:17	Great ideas. With a simple system, DM has freedom to add and change whatever he likes. So, if DM wants to make PCs prepare for battle, he can add that as a skill challenge. If PCs lose first part of a mass combat and are pushed back, they can regroup and perhaps DM can let them get ready for the 2nd wave. Thanks for the ideas.