Massive Damage Rule - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Massive Damage Rule

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
heathan_v20
Dec 15, 2009 16:48:18 Ok ok, I know there are going to be alot of people out there who will call Foul on this, however I do want to use it in a campaign. So I've come for some insight on what you guys think.

Here is what I have, if you are hit with an attack and the damage is equal to or greater then your Bloodied score you have to roll a save.
If you pass no ill effect occurs other then alot of HPs being taken. However if you fail the roll, the DM or you rolls 1d20 and you suffer some ill effect.
01-05     -2 to your next attack roll.
05-10     -2 to the targeted Defense against the next attack.
11-13     Character is Knocked Prone
14-15     Character is Blinded for 1 round.
16-17     Character is Deafened for 1 round.
18-19     Character is Slowed for 1 round.
20          Character is Stunned.

Ok now this is by no means complete or set in stone and in all honesty needs more work, it is not balanced by any means however I am looking to make it a little more fair. For instance Deafened has no real effect, were as Blinded can be pretty nasty (-5 penalty to attack rolls), Stunned is powerful but it fits.

Anyways any constructive critisism is appreciated in making this work out.
#2
slobo777a
Dec 15, 2009 17:08:15 One thing this will do is add extra effects to high damage powers that have no other efffects by RAW, because they are "damage only" powers.

It also favours strikers, giving them extra effects that they can trigger more often than other classes.
#3
heathan_v20
Dec 15, 2009 17:16:49
Yes I know this will slightly tip the scales, however I don't think it will overpower the system as a whole. Yes strikers will more likely get these little effects, however this is only one aspect of the game. Perhaps make it where it only happens on a crit as well???? This would mean not only do they have to score massive damage but a crit as well.
#4
generalhenry
Dec 15, 2009 20:10:12 it only benefits PC strikers.

they have enough toys.
#5
cloudtle
Dec 16, 2009 1:34:53 In my opinion this will make the fights more intresting for PC's as it is only sometimes that you deal enough damage to get a monster to below blooded in one hit as it tends to happen to PC's.

For PC's i would make it a Paragon Feat for the general classes. Have it require some finesse for the pre-req's though.

For the monsters, you can balance the issue with having a recharge on it or lowers some of the more powerful moves so it doesn't happen every 2 rounds.

As for Deafened it actually does affect game play;
"• You can’t hear anything.
• You take a -10 penalty to Perception checks."

So a Invisible character, PC or NPC, would be able to retain combat advantage easier.
#6
heathan_v20
Dec 16, 2009 8:16:51 Deafened does have an effect but the effect is very situational compaired to for instance Blind which is very functional in any combat situation.
#7
pluisjen
Dec 16, 2009 10:35:01 Since Blinded has no serious effect on a Blaster (doesn't do anything to a Blast or Burst) it's also situational (though less so then deafened)

Anyway. Agree with the rest; this is only useful for strikers, and the occasional Brute monster. Personally I'd consider it too much work; just give the monster a power to apply a little effect like this, lot easier.
#8
bone_naga
Dec 16, 2009 15:22:26 I agree that this favors strikers too much. I would say have it happen on a crit, regardless of damage, but give the target a saving throw to avoid receiving the effect. It does still favor some classes more than others, but at least everyone would have a shot at it.
#9
heathan_v20
Dec 16, 2009 17:46:49 I thought about it just happening on crits, but you already recieve a benefit for crits, tons of damage. I do see the point in it favoring strikers or heavy damage powers.
Also it does already require a saving throw.
#10
PrimeSonic
Dec 21, 2009 6:43:41 Sounds interesting and I would suggest a few changes to the list of effects, but let me address something else first:

This will probably only be used by PCs and sparingly through sessions. It's rare they'll ever find a monster that will hit them that hard unless direct combat is not the encounter is to be resolved. The DM (and hence NPCs) will almost never get to use this.

Moving on, it does seem to add more power to attacks that are supposed to sacrifice effects for extra damage. Looking at how attacks are balanced, those with the most powerful effects always do the least base damage. Adding this rule would undo that balance for sure, even if only occasionally. I agree with the others in saying that only strikers (or really good secondary strikers) will really get to use this.

Now, here's the problems I foresee for a typical 4 person party:
Only one or two of the players will be using this new rule.
The others will either forget about it or resent that they don't get to use it.
Strikers already tend to take most of the recognition in an encounter with their high damage numbers, giving them more will just make it worse unless it's a very team oriented group of PCs.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a massive damage rule or something like that, I'm just not sure that the execution needed in 4e is as clear cut as "damage greater than bloodied value".
I'll chew on this and post again later if I can think of anything else that may be able to trigger the rule in such a way that it doesn't undo the game's balance and allows equal access to that rule for all PC classes.
#11
heathan_v20
Dec 21, 2009 9:24:01 Well after thinking about the trigger being a critical hit, I also thought about 3.5 critical hits. I think making the trigger a 2nd roll on a critical hit might fix the problem of it favoring strikers.
#12
PrimeSonic
Dec 22, 2009 0:27:56 Now that's an idea. Roll a crit, deal ubber damage. Target fails a saving throw, extra punishment gets delt out.

Sounds like it could work without overshadowing the basic mechanics. I like it and might try something like it next time I sit in the DM chair.
#13
heathan_v20
Dec 22, 2009 7:17:11 Well what I'm thinkin' is that if you roll a critical hit.
You roll the attack again, if it is a hit, then the target takes massive damage...no save. That would be to much rolling to include the save to.
What do you guys think, save or no save???

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 heathan_v20 Dec 15, 2009 16:48:18	Ok ok, I know there are going to be alot of people out there who will call Foul on this, however I do want to use it in a campaign. So I've come for some insight on what you guys think. Here is what I have, if you are hit with an attack and the damage is equal to or greater then your Bloodied score you have to roll a save. If you pass no ill effect occurs other then alot of HPs being taken. However if you fail the roll, the DM or you rolls 1d20 and you suffer some ill effect. 01-05 -2 to your next attack roll. 05-10 -2 to the targeted Defense against the next attack. 11-13 Character is Knocked Prone 14-15 Character is Blinded for 1 round. 16-17 Character is Deafened for 1 round. 18-19 Character is Slowed for 1 round. 20 Character is Stunned. Ok now this is by no means complete or set in stone and in all honesty needs more work, it is not balanced by any means however I am looking to make it a little more fair. For instance Deafened has no real effect, were as Blinded can be pretty nasty (-5 penalty to attack rolls), Stunned is powerful but it fits. Anyways any constructive critisism is appreciated in making this work out.
#2 slobo777a Dec 15, 2009 17:08:15	One thing this will do is add extra effects to high damage powers that have no other efffects by RAW, because they are "damage only" powers. It also favours strikers, giving them extra effects that they can trigger more often than other classes.
#3 heathan_v20 Dec 15, 2009 17:16:49	Yes I know this will slightly tip the scales, however I don't think it will overpower the system as a whole. Yes strikers will more likely get these little effects, however this is only one aspect of the game. Perhaps make it where it only happens on a crit as well???? This would mean not only do they have to score massive damage but a crit as well.
#4 generalhenry Dec 15, 2009 20:10:12	it only benefits PC strikers. they have enough toys.
#5 cloudtle Dec 16, 2009 1:34:53	In my opinion this will make the fights more intresting for PC's as it is only sometimes that you deal enough damage to get a monster to below blooded in one hit as it tends to happen to PC's. For PC's i would make it a Paragon Feat for the general classes. Have it require some finesse for the pre-req's though. For the monsters, you can balance the issue with having a recharge on it or lowers some of the more powerful moves so it doesn't happen every 2 rounds. As for Deafened it actually does affect game play; "• You can’t hear anything. • You take a -10 penalty to Perception checks." So a Invisible character, PC or NPC, would be able to retain combat advantage easier.
#6 heathan_v20 Dec 16, 2009 8:16:51	Deafened does have an effect but the effect is very situational compaired to for instance Blind which is very functional in any combat situation.
#7 pluisjen Dec 16, 2009 10:35:01	Since Blinded has no serious effect on a Blaster (doesn't do anything to a Blast or Burst) it's also situational (though less so then deafened) Anyway. Agree with the rest; this is only useful for strikers, and the occasional Brute monster. Personally I'd consider it too much work; just give the monster a power to apply a little effect like this, lot easier.
#8 bone_naga Dec 16, 2009 15:22:26	I agree that this favors strikers too much. I would say have it happen on a crit, regardless of damage, but give the target a saving throw to avoid receiving the effect. It does still favor some classes more than others, but at least everyone would have a shot at it.
#9 heathan_v20 Dec 16, 2009 17:46:49	I thought about it just happening on crits, but you already recieve a benefit for crits, tons of damage. I do see the point in it favoring strikers or heavy damage powers. Also it does already require a saving throw.
#10 PrimeSonic Dec 21, 2009 6:43:41	Sounds interesting and I would suggest a few changes to the list of effects, but let me address something else first: This will probably only be used by PCs and sparingly through sessions. It's rare they'll ever find a monster that will hit them that hard unless direct combat is not the encounter is to be resolved. The DM (and hence NPCs) will almost never get to use this. Moving on, it does seem to add more power to attacks that are supposed to sacrifice effects for extra damage. Looking at how attacks are balanced, those with the most powerful effects always do the least base damage. Adding this rule would undo that balance for sure, even if only occasionally. I agree with the others in saying that only strikers (or really good secondary strikers) will really get to use this. Now, here's the problems I foresee for a typical 4 person party: Only one or two of the players will be using this new rule. The others will either forget about it or resent that they don't get to use it. Strikers already tend to take most of the recognition in an encounter with their high damage numbers, giving them more will just make it worse unless it's a very team oriented group of PCs. Now, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a massive damage rule or something like that, I'm just not sure that the execution needed in 4e is as clear cut as "damage greater than bloodied value". I'll chew on this and post again later if I can think of anything else that may be able to trigger the rule in such a way that it doesn't undo the game's balance and allows equal access to that rule for all PC classes.
#11 heathan_v20 Dec 21, 2009 9:24:01	Well after thinking about the trigger being a critical hit, I also thought about 3.5 critical hits. I think making the trigger a 2nd roll on a critical hit might fix the problem of it favoring strikers.
#12 PrimeSonic Dec 22, 2009 0:27:56	Now that's an idea. Roll a crit, deal ubber damage. Target fails a saving throw, extra punishment gets delt out. Sounds like it could work without overshadowing the basic mechanics. I like it and might try something like it next time I sit in the DM chair.
#13 heathan_v20 Dec 22, 2009 7:17:11	Well what I'm thinkin' is that if you roll a critical hit. You roll the attack again, if it is a hit, then the target takes massive damage...no save. That would be to much rolling to include the save to. What do you guys think, save or no save???