Master Thrower Paragon Path P.E.A.C.H. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Master Thrower Paragon Path P.E.A.C.H.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragon9
Jul 24, 2008 13:55:37 I loved the Master Thrower in 3.x. So I am looking to house rule it into 4e. Before it was suited to a Fighter build, although a Fighter/Rogue could get there slightly faster. In 4e I see it as more of a Striker PP. Lookign at the three Strikers we have right now (Warlock, Ranger, and Rogue) the only one that fits well in my mind is Rogue. Here's what I came up with:

Master Thrower
Prerequisite: Rogue class

Master Thrower's Action (11th): When you spend an action point, you can add one extra target to your attack instead of taking an extra action. The extra target must be adjacent to the enemy you attacked and does not suffer any extra effects from the attack power used. Resolve the hit against it with a separate attack roll. You only need one thrown weapon for this attack. (note: This was an attempt to recreate the Two with One Blow ability of the Master Thrower.)
Throwing Precision (11th): Anytime you attack with a thrown weapon, you score a critical on a roll of 18-20.
Throwing Arm (16th): You suffer no range penalties when using a thrown weapon.

Distracting Throw Master Thrower Attack 11
You manage to stick your weapon in an unprotected area, causing your enemy to lose focus from the great pain.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
standard Action Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a thrown weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity Modifier damage, and the target grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn.
(Note: this is meant to simulate, to some extent, the Sneaky Throw ability of the MT class)

It's Mine Now Master Thrower Utility 12
With unerring grace, you snatch the weapon thrown at you out of mid-air.
Encounter * Martial
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Trigger: You are hit with the thrown weapon attack
Effect: Make a saving throw. If successful, you catch the thrown weapon in an open hand and take no damage.
(Note: This was an attempt to recreate the Snatch arrows feat that the class gained for free. I had toyed with the idea of allowing the player to immediately throw the weapon at the creature who attacked them as a basic ranged attack. Not sure if that would be overpowered as an encounter power, of it it would be a Daily power with that included.)

Deadeye Shot Master Thrower Attack 20
With great precision, you place your weapon in an open wound and open it even further.
Daily * Martial Weapon
Standard action Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a thrown weapon
Target: One Bloodied Creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 4[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and ongoing 10 damage (save ends). On a critical hit, ongoing 20 damage (save ends).
Miss: 2[W] + Dexterity damage and no ongoing damage.
(Note: This is meant to simulate, to a certain extent, the Deadeye Shot ability of the MT class.)

Let me know what you think.
#2
machmoth
Jul 27, 2008 18:45:16 I'd say Master Thrower's Action is actually underpowered, since most level 11 throwers will have a magical throwing weapon by then, which returns to their hand after each throw. It doesn't serve to offer any real advantage outside of the already acquired extra action. Some sort of extra bonus might be nice.

Throwing Arm is easily outmatched by the Distant Shot Paragon Feat, which is available at level 11 with no requirements and works on all ranged attacks.

It's Mine Now, just as a nit-pick, probably shouldn't say "make a saving throw," just because I think that wording is reserved for granting the ability to make a save versus an effect. Ranged defenses seem far less common than melee defenses, so it's hard to judge exactly how balanced it is. If you were considering it as a Daily with a counter, I think it would be acceptable to be similar to the Shadow Assassin's "Bad Idea, Friend". (p128)

The rest looks good to me.
#3
Dragon9
Jul 27, 2008 22:40:00 Thanks for the critique. So here's some ideas I have in response.

MT Action: Allow extra features of the attack used to carry over to the other target. Normally, using an action point would mean havingot use a seperate power. What if you want to use that really powerful attack on two different targets when it only allows for one target?

Throwing Arm: Somehow I blanked out on Distance Shot. Maybe make it a blanket +2 to hit with a thrown weapon? That seems kind of weak for a lvl 16 feature. Unless maybe I switched Throwing Arm with Thrown Precision and made Precision lvl 16? Maybe if I made Throwing Arm allow you to treat any thrown weapon as a high crit weapon? That seems to fit the idea of a master thrower well.

It's Mine Now: I see your point on the saving throw. Still kind of in the 3.x mindset. :P New thoughts: I could make it a daily and allow for it to be thrown back at the thrower. Ideas on mechanics though... make it a stance with no bonus to AC vs. thrown and everytime a thrown weapon attack misses you return it at the enemy? Maybe not so overpowered since it only lasts for that encopunter and you can only have one interrupt per turn.

Too over the top? I do admit I tend to err on the side of the underpowered when thinking up abiilties.

So maybe make it this:

It's Mine Now Master Thrower Utility 12
With unerring grace, you snatch the weapons thrown at you out of mid-air and send them back to their owners in one smooth motion.
Daily * Martial, Stance
Immediate Reaction Personal
Effect: Until the end of the encounter you gain a +2 power bonus to your defenses against ranged attacks made with thrown weapons. Any time a thrown weapon attack misses you, you may immediately make a ranged basic attack against the target using the weapon that was just thrown at you. You must be able to use the weapon thrown at you to be able to do so.

IOW a halfling Master Thrower wouldn't be able to catch and return a boulder or huge sized throwing axe hurled at him by a Giant. This still leaves it open to other special things such as (if it ever shows up in 4e) a javelin of lightning. Which it would seem fitting if a higher level master Thrower was able to redirect such a weapon.

I like that version... but seems too strong for an 11th level ability... then again, it;s only a ranegd basic attack...
#4
Dragon9
Nov 08, 2008 10:49:04 I changed up some things based on the old feedback, so here's the new PP

Master Thrower
Prerequisite: Rogue class

Master Thrower's Action (11th): When you spend an action point, you can add one extra target to your attack instead of taking an extra action. The extra target must be adjacent to the enemy you attacked, and the power used may not be an blast or burst. Resolve the hit against t with a separate attack roll. You only need one thrown weapon for this attack.

Throwing Arm (11th): You treat any light or heavy thrown weapon as a high crit weapon.

Throwing Precision (16th): Anytime you make a ranged attack with a light or heavy thrown weapon, you score a critical on a roll of 18-20.

Master Thrower Exploits

Distracting Throw Master Thrower Attack 11
You manage to stick your weapon in an unprotected area, causing your enemy to lose focus from the great pain.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light or heavy thrown weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC or Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity or Strength modifier damage, and the target grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn.

It's Mine Now Master Thrower Utility 12
With unerring grace, you snatch the weapon thrown at you out of mid-air and send it back to it’s owner in one smooth motion.
Daily * Martial, Stance
Minor action Personal
Effect: Until the end of the encounter you gain a +2 power bonus to your defenses against ranged attacks. In addition, any time a thrown weapon attack misses you, you may immediately make a ranged basic attack against the target using the weapon that was just thrown at you as an immediate interrupt. You must be able to use the weapon thrown at you to be able to do so, regardless of proficiency. For example, a Halfling could not return a boulder thrown by a giant.

Deadeye Shot Master Thrower Attack 20
With great precision, you place your weapon in an open wound and open it even further.
Daily * Martial, Weapon
Standard action Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light or heavy thrown weapon
Target: One Bloodied Creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex or Strength vs. Reflex
Hit: 4[W] + Dexterity or Strength modifier damage, and ongoing 10 damage (save ends). On a critical hit, ongoing 20 damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage and no ongoing damage.
#5
wyld_mutation
Nov 08, 2008 16:33:59 Throwing Precision should say

"Anytime you make a ranged attack with a light or heavy thrown weapon, you score a critical on a roll of 18-20. "

Otherwise it applies in melee making it considerably better than the similar ability of the daggermaster.
#6
ff6shadow
Nov 08, 2008 17:04:24 What Wyld said. Also, you should include Strength options, since you included Heavy Thrown weapons.
#7
Dragon9
Nov 08, 2008 21:21:25 Thanks for the heads up. Fixed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragon9 Jul 24, 2008 13:55:37	I loved the Master Thrower in 3.x. So I am looking to house rule it into 4e. Before it was suited to a Fighter build, although a Fighter/Rogue could get there slightly faster. In 4e I see it as more of a Striker PP. Lookign at the three Strikers we have right now (Warlock, Ranger, and Rogue) the only one that fits well in my mind is Rogue. Here's what I came up with: Master Thrower Prerequisite: Rogue class Master Thrower's Action (11th): When you spend an action point, you can add one extra target to your attack instead of taking an extra action. The extra target must be adjacent to the enemy you attacked and does not suffer any extra effects from the attack power used. Resolve the hit against it with a separate attack roll. You only need one thrown weapon for this attack. (note: This was an attempt to recreate the Two with One Blow ability of the Master Thrower.) Throwing Precision (11th): Anytime you attack with a thrown weapon, you score a critical on a roll of 18-20. Throwing Arm (16th): You suffer no range penalties when using a thrown weapon. Distracting Throw Master Thrower Attack 11 You manage to stick your weapon in an unprotected area, causing your enemy to lose focus from the great pain. Encounter * Martial, Weapon standard Action Ranged weapon Requirement: You must be wielding a thrown weapon Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. AC Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity Modifier damage, and the target grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn. (Note: this is meant to simulate, to some extent, the Sneaky Throw ability of the MT class) It's Mine Now Master Thrower Utility 12 With unerring grace, you snatch the weapon thrown at you out of mid-air. Encounter * Martial Immediate Interrupt Personal Trigger: You are hit with the thrown weapon attack Effect: Make a saving throw. If successful, you catch the thrown weapon in an open hand and take no damage. (Note: This was an attempt to recreate the Snatch arrows feat that the class gained for free. I had toyed with the idea of allowing the player to immediately throw the weapon at the creature who attacked them as a basic ranged attack. Not sure if that would be overpowered as an encounter power, of it it would be a Daily power with that included.) Deadeye Shot Master Thrower Attack 20 With great precision, you place your weapon in an open wound and open it even further. Daily * Martial Weapon Standard action Ranged weapon Requirement: You must be wielding a thrown weapon Target: One Bloodied Creature Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex Hit: 4[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and ongoing 10 damage (save ends). On a critical hit, ongoing 20 damage (save ends). Miss: 2[W] + Dexterity damage and no ongoing damage. (Note: This is meant to simulate, to a certain extent, the Deadeye Shot ability of the MT class.) Let me know what you think.
#2 machmoth Jul 27, 2008 18:45:16	I'd say Master Thrower's Action is actually underpowered, since most level 11 throwers will have a magical throwing weapon by then, which returns to their hand after each throw. It doesn't serve to offer any real advantage outside of the already acquired extra action. Some sort of extra bonus might be nice. Throwing Arm is easily outmatched by the Distant Shot Paragon Feat, which is available at level 11 with no requirements and works on all ranged attacks. It's Mine Now, just as a nit-pick, probably shouldn't say "make a saving throw," just because I think that wording is reserved for granting the ability to make a save versus an effect. Ranged defenses seem far less common than melee defenses, so it's hard to judge exactly how balanced it is. If you were considering it as a Daily with a counter, I think it would be acceptable to be similar to the Shadow Assassin's "Bad Idea, Friend". (p128) The rest looks good to me.
#3 Dragon9 Jul 27, 2008 22:40:00	Thanks for the critique. So here's some ideas I have in response. MT Action: Allow extra features of the attack used to carry over to the other target. Normally, using an action point would mean havingot use a seperate power. What if you want to use that really powerful attack on two different targets when it only allows for one target? Throwing Arm: Somehow I blanked out on Distance Shot. Maybe make it a blanket +2 to hit with a thrown weapon? That seems kind of weak for a lvl 16 feature. Unless maybe I switched Throwing Arm with Thrown Precision and made Precision lvl 16? Maybe if I made Throwing Arm allow you to treat any thrown weapon as a high crit weapon? That seems to fit the idea of a master thrower well. It's Mine Now: I see your point on the saving throw. Still kind of in the 3.x mindset. :P New thoughts: I could make it a daily and allow for it to be thrown back at the thrower. Ideas on mechanics though... make it a stance with no bonus to AC vs. thrown and everytime a thrown weapon attack misses you return it at the enemy? Maybe not so overpowered since it only lasts for that encopunter and you can only have one interrupt per turn. Too over the top? I do admit I tend to err on the side of the underpowered when thinking up abiilties. So maybe make it this: It's Mine Now Master Thrower Utility 12 With unerring grace, you snatch the weapons thrown at you out of mid-air and send them back to their owners in one smooth motion. Daily * Martial, Stance Immediate Reaction Personal Effect: Until the end of the encounter you gain a +2 power bonus to your defenses against ranged attacks made with thrown weapons. Any time a thrown weapon attack misses you, you may immediately make a ranged basic attack against the target using the weapon that was just thrown at you. You must be able to use the weapon thrown at you to be able to do so. IOW a halfling Master Thrower wouldn't be able to catch and return a boulder or huge sized throwing axe hurled at him by a Giant. This still leaves it open to other special things such as (if it ever shows up in 4e) a javelin of lightning. Which it would seem fitting if a higher level master Thrower was able to redirect such a weapon. I like that version... but seems too strong for an 11th level ability... then again, it;s only a ranegd basic attack...
#4 Dragon9 Nov 08, 2008 10:49:04	I changed up some things based on the old feedback, so here's the new PP Master Thrower Prerequisite: Rogue class Master Thrower's Action (11th): When you spend an action point, you can add one extra target to your attack instead of taking an extra action. The extra target must be adjacent to the enemy you attacked, and the power used may not be an blast or burst. Resolve the hit against t with a separate attack roll. You only need one thrown weapon for this attack. Throwing Arm (11th): You treat any light or heavy thrown weapon as a high crit weapon. Throwing Precision (16th): Anytime you make a ranged attack with a light or heavy thrown weapon, you score a critical on a roll of 18-20. Master Thrower Exploits Distracting Throw Master Thrower Attack 11 You manage to stick your weapon in an unprotected area, causing your enemy to lose focus from the great pain. Encounter * Martial, Weapon Standard Action Ranged weapon Requirement: You must be wielding a light or heavy thrown weapon Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. AC or Strength vs. AC Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity or Strength modifier damage, and the target grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn. It's Mine Now Master Thrower Utility 12 With unerring grace, you snatch the weapon thrown at you out of mid-air and send it back to it’s owner in one smooth motion. Daily * Martial, Stance Minor action Personal Effect: Until the end of the encounter you gain a +2 power bonus to your defenses against ranged attacks. In addition, any time a thrown weapon attack misses you, you may immediately make a ranged basic attack against the target using the weapon that was just thrown at you as an immediate interrupt. You must be able to use the weapon thrown at you to be able to do so, regardless of proficiency. For example, a Halfling could not return a boulder thrown by a giant. Deadeye Shot Master Thrower Attack 20 With great precision, you place your weapon in an open wound and open it even further. Daily * Martial, Weapon Standard action Ranged weapon Requirement: You must be wielding a light or heavy thrown weapon Target: One Bloodied Creature Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex or Strength vs. Reflex Hit: 4[W] + Dexterity or Strength modifier damage, and ongoing 10 damage (save ends). On a critical hit, ongoing 20 damage (save ends). Miss: Half damage and no ongoing damage.
#5 wyld_mutation Nov 08, 2008 16:33:59	Throwing Precision should say "Anytime you make a ranged attack with a light or heavy thrown weapon, you score a critical on a roll of 18-20. " Otherwise it applies in melee making it considerably better than the similar ability of the daggermaster.
#6 ff6shadow Nov 08, 2008 17:04:24	What Wyld said. Also, you should include Strength options, since you included Heavy Thrown weapons.
#7 Dragon9 Nov 08, 2008 21:21:25	Thanks for the heads up. Fixed.