Minion + Crit = Not A Minion - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Minion + Crit = Not A Minion

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
clark411
Jul 12, 2008 22:45:09 Part of me would like to think the dice should alter the narrative. If a minion happens to roll a 20, maybe he's destined to have a little bit of a bigger role in the fight.

Please tell me what could happen with this House Rule beyond making fights possibly a bit more swingy than planned.

Minion Exaltation
If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly.
#2
dalzig
Jul 12, 2008 22:52:25 Do the players earn the old minion XP or the new XP?
Do the monsters get to use encounter/daily powers?
Do you tell the players that it has changed?

Really, the only negative outcome I can see is making battles potentially a lot more swingy. If you have a combat with 4 minions and go on a natural 20 spree, the characters have 4 more creatures to deal with. These creatures are fully refreshed and raring to go.
#3
clark411
Jul 12, 2008 23:04:39 I'd award appropriate xp for an additional standard monster... I think the players would clue in that a standard monster is in the mix when they don't drop it in one hit, so don't really need to say what happened.

Right now, even at level 2 I've seen my players saying "Oh- there's 12 of them.. That means minions!" and then they tear in, with little regard. I'd like to remove the absolute certainty of their meta-game logic in these situations.
#4
theonlyjett
Jul 12, 2008 23:13:53 If you are just doing it for flavor, then only "level up" the first minion to score a crit, and not any others. I doubt you'd ever have problems with that. It seems to me that I've seen movies with minions where it takes a little more than a few hits to keep them down. But it was mostly for comic relief sort of stuff. For all intents and purposes, they were still pretty much minions as far as the heros were concerned.
#5
machmoth
Jul 13, 2008 0:19:42 The main problem I see is frequency. Part of the reason minions don't crit is that they would do so a lot. It's not a totally unrealistic setup to see maybe a controller with 10 minions. Assuming they manage to get in an average of 2 attacks each (some won't go at all, some will go more than once), you've got 20 die rolls. You're probably going to get a 20. Realistically more than that.

While I personally like the "oh boy, minions!" reaction (it makes my players so happy, and I just can't bring myself to deny them that pleasure), I do tend to mix in similar non-minions to keep people on their toes, or sometimes I'll make some two-shot minions that count as two minions for XP purposes and get bloodied instead of killed on their first hit.
#6
thegreaterbad
Jul 13, 2008 8:07:19 I like to mix in non-minions into minion hordes. There's nothing like a PC blinking and after a moment swearing as the realized their brilliant plan has failed. However, I think I may give the OPs idea a try instead next session. It sounds interesting.
#7
feyberry
Jul 13, 2008 8:13:28 I have a better name for Minion Exaltation... cookies for the reference.

I Have a Name
"Do you have a last name?"
"Yeah, but I think I should save it for an emergency."
"Good idea."
Benefit: If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly.
#8
generalhenry
Jul 13, 2008 8:35:32 there are four times as many minions as normal monsters.

that's four times the rolls and four times the potential crits.

Random factors favor the underdog, and the monsters are always the underdog.

there's a reason minions don't crit.
#9
feyberry
Jul 13, 2008 9:07:15 Minions do crit. They just already deal non-variable damage.
#10
generalhenry
Jul 13, 2008 9:10:56 .... well depends on what you want to call a crit.

they do technically 'crit' but their crits are identical to their normal hits.

The other funny thing is a crit on a minion is identical to a hit on a minion.
#11
clark411
Jul 13, 2008 9:13:16
I have a better name for Minion Exaltation... cookies for the reference.

I Have a Name
"Do you have a last name?"
"Yeah, but I think I should save it for an emergency."
"Good idea."
Benefit: If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly.

OotS. Yay cookies! I like that name better too.
#12
wyld_mutation
Jul 13, 2008 9:33:32 How about: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20 they ignore the next hit against them.

Just a suggestion so that my Hydra minion doesn't become a Hydra.
#13
clark411
Jul 13, 2008 9:59:17
How about: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20 they ignore the next hit against them.

Just a suggestion so that my Hydra minion doesn't become a Hydra.

I think turning a Solo brute into a minion is an entirely different can of worms... but this is a smoother form of the house rule. I like it.
#14
wyld_mutation
Jul 13, 2008 11:31:00 Well I intended on having a newborn hydra try to eat my group. Thus it would be a minion.... Kinda....
#15
martel732
Jul 13, 2008 14:31:59 How about as a balance the creature takes a penalty or worse if it rolls a 1.

Prove them Right
Everyone always said you would die in a horrendously embarrassing manner. At least you didn't make liars of them.

If a minion rolls a natural one it dies.
#16
vestrial
Jul 13, 2008 14:44:42
I Have a Name
"Do you have a last name?"
"Yeah, but I think I should save it for an emergency."
"Good idea."
Benefit: If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly.

Love it.

I already use some two-hit minions as well, but I like this idea a lot. I will probably restrict it to one minion per fight, just because streaky dice rolls could turn a horde of minions into a death squad pretty quickly...

Prove them Right
Everyone always said you would die in a horrendously embarrassing manner. At least you didn't make liars of them.

If a minion rolls a natural one it dies.

I like this one as well, but I think I'll have them kill an adjacent minion instead of themselves.
#17
wyld_mutation
Jul 13, 2008 14:53:10 Jack: Nup-Nup what are you doing? *ach*
Nup-Nup: Oops...
#18
generalhenry
Jul 13, 2008 14:54:53
Jack: Nup-Nup

No you fool! giving them names quadruples their power!
#19
wyld_mutation
Jul 13, 2008 14:56:57 Well at least ghe's not Pun-Pun...

Cause then you might have some real problems...
#20
machmoth
Jul 13, 2008 16:33:38
How about: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20 they ignore the next hit against them.

Just a suggestion so that my Hydra minion doesn't become a Hydra.

I like this one best, though after my last minion-heavy session, I've decided I no longer want to track anything on them. (A 30 minion fight will do that to you.) So, I might go a step further and say: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20, the next minion hit lives. Then even I don't have to know which one is the tough guy.

Edit: Hmm, though as after thought, that could mean being the fighter who's after the minions in initiative means never killing anything.
#21
wyld_mutation
Jul 13, 2008 16:53:53 Seriously? How often does a minion roll a natural 20 for you? Your fighter will get plenty of killing in even if he's dead last.
#22
Goober4473
Jul 13, 2008 18:10:10 I love this idea.

One note though: minions don't have roles besides minion, so as is, you'd need to pick a role and assign hit points acordingly.

How about a new role, called Unique Minion or somesuch? They could get 4 + Con + (level X 4) hit points, and like a +1 bonus to attacks due to a morale boost. About half an average monster's hit points. They could be worth like half a normal monster's XP as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 clark411 Jul 12, 2008 22:45:09	Part of me would like to think the dice should alter the narrative. If a minion happens to roll a 20, maybe he's destined to have a little bit of a bigger role in the fight. Please tell me what could happen with this House Rule beyond making fights possibly a bit more swingy than planned. Minion Exaltation If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly.
#2 dalzig Jul 12, 2008 22:52:25	Do the players earn the old minion XP or the new XP? Do the monsters get to use encounter/daily powers? Do you tell the players that it has changed? Really, the only negative outcome I can see is making battles potentially a lot more swingy. If you have a combat with 4 minions and go on a natural 20 spree, the characters have 4 more creatures to deal with. These creatures are fully refreshed and raring to go.
#3 clark411 Jul 12, 2008 23:04:39	I'd award appropriate xp for an additional standard monster... I think the players would clue in that a standard monster is in the mix when they don't drop it in one hit, so don't really need to say what happened. Right now, even at level 2 I've seen my players saying "Oh- there's 12 of them.. That means minions!" and then they tear in, with little regard. I'd like to remove the absolute certainty of their meta-game logic in these situations.
#4 theonlyjett Jul 12, 2008 23:13:53	If you are just doing it for flavor, then only "level up" the first minion to score a crit, and not any others. I doubt you'd ever have problems with that. It seems to me that I've seen movies with minions where it takes a little more than a few hits to keep them down. But it was mostly for comic relief sort of stuff. For all intents and purposes, they were still pretty much minions as far as the heros were concerned.
#5 machmoth Jul 13, 2008 0:19:42	The main problem I see is frequency. Part of the reason minions don't crit is that they would do so a lot. It's not a totally unrealistic setup to see maybe a controller with 10 minions. Assuming they manage to get in an average of 2 attacks each (some won't go at all, some will go more than once), you've got 20 die rolls. You're probably going to get a 20. Realistically more than that. While I personally like the "oh boy, minions!" reaction (it makes my players so happy, and I just can't bring myself to deny them that pleasure), I do tend to mix in similar non-minions to keep people on their toes, or sometimes I'll make some two-shot minions that count as two minions for XP purposes and get bloodied instead of killed on their first hit.
#6 thegreaterbad Jul 13, 2008 8:07:19	I like to mix in non-minions into minion hordes. There's nothing like a PC blinking and after a moment swearing as the realized their brilliant plan has failed. However, I think I may give the OPs idea a try instead next session. It sounds interesting.
#7 feyberry Jul 13, 2008 8:13:28	I have a better name for Minion Exaltation... cookies for the reference. I Have a Name "Do you have a last name?" "Yeah, but I think I should save it for an emergency." "Good idea." Benefit: If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly.
#8 generalhenry Jul 13, 2008 8:35:32	there are four times as many minions as normal monsters. that's four times the rolls and four times the potential crits. Random factors favor the underdog, and the monsters are always the underdog. there's a reason minions don't crit.
#9 feyberry Jul 13, 2008 9:07:15	Minions do crit. They just already deal non-variable damage.
#10 generalhenry Jul 13, 2008 9:10:56	.... well depends on what you want to call a crit. they do technically 'crit' but their crits are identical to their normal hits. The other funny thing is a crit on a minion is identical to a hit on a minion.
#11 clark411 Jul 13, 2008 9:13:16	I have a better name for Minion Exaltation... cookies for the reference. I Have a Name "Do you have a last name?" "Yeah, but I think I should save it for an emergency." "Good idea." Benefit: If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly. OotS. Yay cookies! I like that name better too.
#12 wyld_mutation Jul 13, 2008 9:33:32	How about: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20 they ignore the next hit against them. Just a suggestion so that my Hydra minion doesn't become a Hydra.
#13 clark411 Jul 13, 2008 9:59:17	How about: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20 they ignore the next hit against them. Just a suggestion so that my Hydra minion doesn't become a Hydra. I think turning a Solo brute into a minion is an entirely different can of worms... but this is a smoother form of the house rule. I like it.
#14 wyld_mutation Jul 13, 2008 11:31:00	Well I intended on having a newborn hydra try to eat my group. Thus it would be a minion.... Kinda....
#15 martel732 Jul 13, 2008 14:31:59	How about as a balance the creature takes a penalty or worse if it rolls a 1. Prove them Right Everyone always said you would die in a horrendously embarrassing manner. At least you didn't make liars of them. If a minion rolls a natural one it dies.
#16 vestrial Jul 13, 2008 14:44:42	I Have a Name "Do you have a last name?" "Yeah, but I think I should save it for an emergency." "Good idea." Benefit: If a minion rolls a natural 20, the minion becomes an equally leveled standard creature. Alter HP accordingly. Love it. I already use some two-hit minions as well, but I like this idea a lot. I will probably restrict it to one minion per fight, just because streaky dice rolls could turn a horde of minions into a death squad pretty quickly... Prove them Right Everyone always said you would die in a horrendously embarrassing manner. At least you didn't make liars of them. If a minion rolls a natural one it dies. I like this one as well, but I think I'll have them kill an adjacent minion instead of themselves.
#17 wyld_mutation Jul 13, 2008 14:53:10	Jack: Nup-Nup what are you doing? ach Nup-Nup: Oops...
#18 generalhenry Jul 13, 2008 14:54:53	Jack: Nup-Nup No you fool! giving them names quadruples their power!
#19 wyld_mutation Jul 13, 2008 14:56:57	Well at least ghe's not Pun-Pun... Cause then you might have some real problems...
#20 machmoth Jul 13, 2008 16:33:38	How about: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20 they ignore the next hit against them. Just a suggestion so that my Hydra minion doesn't become a Hydra. I like this one best, though after my last minion-heavy session, I've decided I no longer want to track anything on them. (A 30 minion fight will do that to you.) So, I might go a step further and say: Whenever a minion rolls a natural 20, the next minion hit lives. Then even I don't have to know which one is the tough guy. Edit: Hmm, though as after thought, that could mean being the fighter who's after the minions in initiative means never killing anything.
#21 wyld_mutation Jul 13, 2008 16:53:53	Seriously? How often does a minion roll a natural 20 for you? Your fighter will get plenty of killing in even if he's dead last.
#22 Goober4473 Jul 13, 2008 18:10:10	I love this idea. One note though: minions don't have roles besides minion, so as is, you'd need to pick a role and assign hit points acordingly. How about a new role, called Unique Minion or somesuch? They could get 4 + Con + (level X 4) hit points, and like a +1 bonus to attacks due to a morale boost. About half an average monster's hit points. They could be worth like half a normal monster's XP as well.