Miss something from 3/3.5e? Get it converted here

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

pyromancer999

Jun 30, 2009 9:42:23
Okay, so here's the thing. Most of the 4th edition material is transitioning something from 3rd or 3.5 edition. However, seeing as there is a tiny amount of 4th edition material as compared to the stuff from 3 or 3.5 edition, there's still a lot of stuff that people want converted to 4th edition.

That being noted, I'm offering to convert any material that you want from 3rd or 3.5 edition to 4th edition. All you have to do is ask for it on this thread and I will convert it. Races, classes, anything. However, any class that you ask for will most likely be converted into a paragon path, a series of feats, and/or maybe some powers.
#2

LordViscera

Jun 30, 2009 9:49:54
How about the dragon shaman
#3

MusicOfCreation

Jun 30, 2009 9:59:25
Here is a really easy one. The Leadership feat.
#4

tylara67

Jun 30, 2009 10:23:58
Here is a really easy one. The Leadership feat.

Trick question. Nothing can provide a PC with another creature that takes a full set of actions.
#5

kieferz

Jun 30, 2009 11:31:23
Perhaps convert Leadership as a way to establish a home base or organization, but not have additional allies in your adventures? It could let you build a small support system: sages to do research when you need to know about an abandoned temple, weaponsmiths to do the work upgrading your weaponry (maybe a small discount, maybe not), a few guards to keep everything secure, and the facilities to rest up and heal between adventures. More "feudal lord" than "Master's of Battle Administration."

EDIT: Gave it some more thought:

Leadership
Prerequisite: 5th level, Cha 15
Benefit: You attract the services of a number of noncombatants. You may have a maximum of 2 associates per level. The DM has control over the exact makeup of your associates, including events that increase or decrease the numbers following you, but guidelines are presented below:

Leadership Score:
Base: 10 + Charisma modifier
You treat your associates well, keeping them safe as best you can: +2
You are an ally to an established nation: +2
You treat your associates poorly, putting them in unnecessary danger on a regular basis: -2
You are a criminal or otherwise oppose a lawful government: -2
Attacks are made on your organization: -2
(Needs additional modifiers, covering both your actions and world events)

Number of associates:
Leadership score 10 or less: 50% of maximum
Leadership score 11-15: 70% of maximum
Leadership score 16-20: 90% of maximum
Leadership score 21+: Maximum

Associate Types:
Craftsman: Can supply mundane equipment.
Sage: Has a +8 modifier in Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Nature, or Religion
Enchanter: Can perform the Enchant Magic Item or Alchemy ritual
Healer: Has a +8 modifier in Heal
Guard: Is a level 1-5 Soldier, Skirmisher, or Brute

Improved Leadership
Prerequisite: Paragon Tier, Cha 17
Benefit: You can have up to 5 associates per level.

Epic Leadership
Prerequisite: Epic Tier, Cha 19
Benefit: You can have up to 10 associates per level.
#6

magus_stragus

Jun 30, 2009 12:34:37
Miss something from 3/3.5e?

Yeah, I miss the roleplaying factor of D&D.

Any roads, though that leadership feat is nice, how do I do, as a player, if I want to hire any numbers of mercenaries to protect me in my adventures? Let's say, I'm a wizard, and I want a meat shield that can block enemies while I destroy them from afar. How can I do that? And, don't answer "get a party", because that's not what I want. I want mercenaries, payblades that have no opinion in my decisions or a part of the treasures I found in my adventures (other than their payment).

Also, I would want to see the paladin's mount.
#7

doneisi

Jun 30, 2009 14:10:52
Miss something from 3/3.5e?

Yeah, I miss the roleplaying factor of D&D.

Easy, just take out skill chalanges and you are back down to the roleplaying factor of 3.x.

Any roads, though that leadership feat is nice, how do I do, as a player, if I want to hire any numbers of mercenaries to protect me in my adventures? Let's say, I'm a wizard, and I want a meat shield that can block enemies while I destroy them from afar. How can I do that? And, don't answer "get a party", because that's not what I want. I want mercenaries, payblades that have no opinion in my decisions or a part of the treasures I found in my adventures (other than their payment).

Ask your DM to introduce some NPCs for you. They can be fighters or rouges or whatever you want. Remember they are effectively party members so they can be payed with some of the treasure parcels you get.

Also, I would want to see the paladin's mount.

You can wait for Divine power to get a mount paladin, or you can use a horse or the other mounts in Adventure's Vault. Also don't forget the mounted combat feat.
#8

kieferz

Jun 30, 2009 14:31:24
Oh yeah...I should have thought of that. If you want to have companions, sure, hire them...but the DM gets control of them, down to the roleplaying. I actually did that in a campaign I run, and just added on extra monsters to liven things up.
#9

pyromancer999

Jun 30, 2009 17:04:35
Alright, the Leadership feat isn't that easy to replace in the grand scheme of 4e. However, amongst the lines of meat shields here is a little feat to grant you some meat shield(s) of sorts:

Leader's Cohort
Prerequisites: Cha 13
Benefit: When traveling, and before each dungeon crawl, you gain the services of a special companion. This companion has hit points equal to twice your level + your Cha modifier. It has a standard attack that deals 1d8 + your Cha modifier damage. Its defenses are equal to your own - 1. If killed, the companion reappears as soon as you start traveling or are about to enter a dungeon. The cohort has its own turn, but is only allowed one standard action and move action per turn. If your cohort dies, you must pay 10 gold per level to regain it.
Special: You can not select or have selected Posse in order to have this feat.

Improved Leader's Cohort
Prerequisites: Leader's Cohort
Benefit: Your cohort gains a multiclass feat, and its hit points increase by 2.

Posse
Prerequisites: Cha 13
Benefit: You gain a number of minions equal to your Cha modifier. They have a number of hit points equal to half your level, and an attack that deals 1d6 damage. They have defences equal to your own. The minions have their own turns, but may only take one move or standard action on its own.
Special: You can not select or have selected Leader's Cohort in order to have this feat.

Now, for Dragon Shaman....

Dragon Shaman

Prerequisites: Training in Arcana

You have often looked at the order of things in the world, and have noticed one thing: Dragons tend to come out on top. You have often admired the power and audacity of dragons, and try to channel their energy to become more like them.

Before entering this paragon path, you must choose a type of dragon. All powers and class features that involve energy are the same type of energy as the dragon you choose.

Dragon Shaman Class Features

Dragon Shaman's Action(11th level): When you spend an action point, make a basic melee or ranged attack against the closest enemy.

Dragon's Attack(11th level): When you make a basic melee or ranged attack, add an amount of damage to the attack equal to your Strength modifier. The damage type is the same of the dragon's energy type.

Blessing of the Dragon(16th level): You add your Constitution modifier to your healing surge value, and gain scales that give you a +2 AC bonus

Dragon's Breath____________________Dragon Shaman Attack 11
Encounter[] Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning

Standard Action Close Blast 4

Target: Each creature within blast

Attack: Strength +2 vs. Reflex

Hit: 2d8 + Con modifier energy damage



Dragon's Wings__________Dragon Shaman Attack 12
Encounter

Standard Action Personal

Effect: You gain a fly speed equal to your regular speed + your Con modifier. This lasts until the end of the encounter



I'm the Dragon Now!________________Dragon Shaman Attack 20
Daily [] Arcane,Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning

Standard Action Personal/ Close blast 2(see power for details)

Hit: 3d6 + Con modifier energy Damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Effect: You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed, and +1 to AC. Also, your size increases by one size for the duration of the power.
Sustain: The power's effect continues. You can't sustain this power on a miss. In the event of a miss, the effect granted by this power persists for two rounds or until the encounter ends, whichever first.

What do you all think of that?
#10

LordViscera

Jul 01, 2009 0:33:34
awesome thanks
#11

pyromancer999

Jul 01, 2009 9:21:27
No problem Viscera. Now, any more requests/ comments on "Leadership" feats?
#12

Chris24601

Jul 01, 2009 10:34:54
kieferz posted:
EDIT: Gave it (the Leadership feat) some more thought:

I think that's definitely a good start, though I'd actually dump a lot of the complex mechanics and the level requirement for the feat and instead just have a fixed number of followers per level and have all the available follower types be non-combatant minions rather like the minion created by the undead servant ritual.

This would make them useful for performing non-combat tasks like making camp, holding your torch, carrying your treasure, or standing watch at night while you sleep. But you're a hero and they're not. When the nasty stuff comes around they're going to be backing off and letting you do your job.
#13

pyromancer999

Jul 01, 2009 10:53:03
Um, there's no level requirement for the leadership feat. And the reason that they have combat ability is because someone on here wanted meat shields. This makes sense as cohorts and followers in 3.5e had combat ability.
#14

fey_feline

Jul 01, 2009 11:04:15
The Quori Mindhunter Prestige Class as a Paragon Path.
#15

pyromancer999

Jul 01, 2009 11:14:51
Um, can you tell me which book that's from? I'm not familiar with the prestige class
#16

fey_feline

Jul 01, 2009 11:24:11
Um, can you tell me which book that's from? I'm not familiar with the prestige class

Magic of Eberron.
Great book.
#17

pyromancer999

Jul 01, 2009 12:09:40
Well, I don't think I can quite convert it into a paragon path, but I can manage a few feats based on it:

Feats with [Quori] require you to first take the Vessel feat.

Vessel
Prerequisites: Int 13, Con 13
Benefits: You gain a +1 to Int, and you may use Int in place of Con or Str when making checks.

Thought Shield[Quori]
Benefits: You gain a +2 to powers with the Psychic keyword.

Quori's Power[Quori]
Prerequisites: have a multi-class feat
Benefit: The quori inside your mind brings its own knowledge to your abilities. Select a class that you have not multi-classed into. You are treated as having multi-classed into it for the purpose of the Acolyte, Adept, and Novice Power feats.

Does this satisfy you?
#18

Chris24601

Jul 01, 2009 17:09:11
[
Um, there's no level requirement for the leadership feat. And the reason that they have combat ability is because someone on here wanted meat shields. This makes sense as cohorts and followers in 3.5e had combat ability.

I was quoting kieferz' version of the feat (note the top of the "quote" box in my previous post), not yours. His version included a requirement of 5th level or higher. I think that version of the feat was pretty close to what I'd expect out of WotC should they ever decide to "grace" us with the leadership feat again.

Second, your version of the feat is extremely more powerful than ANY other feat I've seen in 4E. Its on par with class features like the ranger's animal companion or a shaman's spirit, only it doesn't take actions from the PC to have them function which makes it even better (and you get them back without having to expend any resources?).

Take a look at familiars in "Arcane Power" and the Undead Servant ritual in "Open Grave" for an idea of what the power-level of followers gained via a feat should probably look like.

Honestly? I'd be more inclined to expect Leadership to be handled as some sort of paragon path option with the features, attack, and utility powers centered around your minions being able to take actions in combat.

Leadership was one of those things that was incredibly prone to abuse 3E and that's why I'm really glad they did away with it. I've sat through games where the PC with leadership's turn lasted ten times longer than any other player's just due to controlling all their followers.

4E put Leadership, cohorts, and followers where they belong... in the hands of the DM. They get to determine rates for hirelings, and what other heroes might be willing to accompany you on your adventures and whether or not they get to be run by players at the table or by the DM exclusively. From my experience, way too many DM's forgot that Leadership was an OPTIONAL feat in 3E... allowed only on the DM's approval.

The only way I'd want it back at all is if it were conforming to the same design philosophy that animal companions, mounts, familiars, summoned creatures, etc. abide by.
#19

pyromancer999

Jul 01, 2009 18:14:39
I don't have Arcane Power nor Open Grave, so I had no frame of reference. Still, you have to look at the hit points total for each. They aren't going to last long in a fight, which is why they get the special turns. Still, you have a point on the resources. I've changed the feats so that you are required to pay a gold cost to regain the cohort or minion. Also, I've changed it so that you can only select Leader's Cohort or Posse.

Does this satisfy you?
#20

Chris24601

Jul 01, 2009 20:12:10
I don't have Arcane Power nor Open Grave, so I had no frame of reference. Still, you have to look at the hit points total for each.

I did look at the hit point total and that's the problem. No other feat or ritual creates a servant creature that has more than a single hit point (i.e. minions). Only class features and powers offer servants any tougher than a minion.

The Undead Servant ritual creates a non-combatant minion (defenses of 11 and one hit point) able to take only move actions in combat. Familiars can do many things, but combat is not one of them (unless they happen to be channeling one of their master's powers) and require their owner to expend actions to direct them.

While having to pay for your followers is a possible solution, I think 10 gp/level is way too low. Consider that even an allied minion is able to grant you combat advantage against any foe simply by flanking and even a low-level follower should be at least as valuable as a magic item capable of granting combat advantage for a turn as a daily power (especially given that yours return when conditions are met and do not consume a daily item slot via their use in that fashion).

Check out the rules for the Bags of Tricks from "Adventurer's Vault" (p. 183-4) for a guide to pricing a follower such as what you have in mind as a magic item. Bear in mind that these summoned creatures are minions, take minor action of yours for each action it takes, and count as a use of daily magic item power by the character.

Similarly the Figurines of Wonderous Power follow similar rules, though you may spend a healing surge when summoning them to give them temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value.

If you intend Leadership to be a feat it should be balanced around similar feats or rituals (which create non-combat minions). If you intend the followers to be purchasible I'd look at the prices for the Figurines and Bag of Tricks, as well as the value of various mounts in determining prices (an Elephant; a level 8 brute; costs 3400 gp for example).

Regardless, I think to keep with the current rule structure, any combat capable follower should require the expenditure of a minor action for each action they take in combat (this isn't a problem for non-combatant followers whose actions in combat will be move actions to stay out of the way). Any form of follower who is capable of performing combat actions without using at least a minor action from the player to accomplish it runs 180 degrees out of phase with the 4E design paradigm which has been 100% consistant across mounts, summoned creatures, familiars, and similar beings.
#21

pyromancer999

Jul 02, 2009 8:54:20
Look, I don't have any of the supplements you are referencing. If you don't like how I make the "Leadership" feats, then fine. You can always make your own.

So, does anyone have any more material they wish to have converted?
#22

ekio

Jul 02, 2009 9:03:56
Miss something from 3/3.5e?

Yeah, I miss the roleplaying factor of D&D.

If you need a book to tell you how to role play, then maybe this isn't the game for you. I always saw that 4e facilitated RP moreso than 3.x because it didn't have unnecessary and arbitrary mechanical requirements to play the character you want.

Also. Templates made for PCs. :o
#23

magus_stragus

Jul 02, 2009 13:36:12
I'm sorry, but I never stated that I needed a book to roleplay. The TC asked in the topic title if I missed something from 3/3.5e, and I answered honestly. And, I beg to differ with you: 4e killed the RP factor of D&D, at least for me.
#24

Mechalibur

Jul 02, 2009 13:41:12
Explosive Runes

Wish
#25

AbdulAlhazred

Jul 02, 2009 14:43:21
Explosive Runes

Wish

Explosive Runes are pretty easy. It would be a fairly simple ritual. How about something like this:

Explosive Runes
You scribe a set of glowing mystic runes onto an object or a location, imbuing them with magical power. Once you finish the runes fade from ordinary sight.

Level: 4 Component Cost: 100 gp
Category: Warding Market Price: 150 gp
Time: 10 minutes Key Skill: Arcana
Duration: Permanent

You trace a set of mystic runes onto an object or a specific square of ground.
When you cast the ritual you must describe the conditions under which the runes will be triggered. These conditions must pertain to the item or location where the runes are placed. They can be any simple set of conditions such as when an item is opened, when the runes are read, when a creature sets foot in the square, etc. The triggering conditions may also specify negative conditions of the following types:

1) A password which may be spoken in order to prevent the runes from triggering. This password must be spoken within 5 squares of the warded location and will disarm the runes for 1 minute.

2) A list of up to 10 individuals who will not trigger the runes.

3) Descriptions of specific categories of creatures which will not trigger the runes. The description must be based on specific observable traits such as species, type, size, clothing, etc.

In addition to specifying the trigger conditions the caster must select a damage type keyword. All damage done by the runes when triggered will have this keyword.

The runes effectively constitute a magical trap. They may be noticed by making an Arcana check and overcoming the caster's ritual casting success roll. If the roll is overcome by 5 or more then the damage type of the runes will be known. If the check is overcome by 10 or more then the triggering conditions are known, but any password etc will not be specifically known, only that such a condition exists.

Disarming the runes can also be accomplished with an Arcana check which overcomes the caster's ritual casting success roll by 3 or more. A thievery check may also be used with a -5 to the roll unless the thief is also trained in arcana.

When triggered explosive runes do damage as follows:
Ritual success roll Damage Area
1-9 none (ritual fails) N/A
10-15 1d6+3 warded square
16-20 2d6+3 burst 1
21-30 3d6+3 burst 2
31-50 4d6+3 burst 3
51+ 5d6+3 burst 4

In addition the runes will have a secondary effect depending on the damage keyword chosen.

Keyword Effect
Air dazed (save ends)
Earth immobilized (save ends)
Fire 5 ongoing fire damage (save ends)
Water slowed (save ends)
Lightning 5 lightning damage
Thunder Deafened and 3 thunder damage
Poison 5 ongoing poison damage (save ends)
Force Prone and 3 force damage
Necrotic Weakened (save ends)
Radiant Blinded (save ends)

Naturally you may want to tweak all of this, it could be made more elaborate, but I think the general basic mechanics are reasonable.
#26

AbdulAlhazred

Jul 02, 2009 14:46:16
Wish... feh, not going there. Who actually needs rules for wishes? They are just absolute DM fiat. They are also beyond the power level of even 30th level PCs to demand. I would suggest a quest to find an artifact and only then perhaps grant a wish, within reason. It doesn't need a game mechanic and it never worked well to start with.
#27

pyromancer999

Jul 02, 2009 16:16:02
Well, along the lines of wish, here is a sort of randomized wish a few guys I know came up with(it's a feat, but look closer):

Randomness(paragon tier?)
Benefit: Once per encounter, you may choose to expend a power,but not receive its benefit. Instead, choose 4 powers of the same level and type of power(for example, you expend a lvl 1 daily power, you choose lvl 1 daily powers). You can not have already known these powers, and they need not be chosen from your class. Assign each power a number(1-4), then roll a d6.
Here's what you do if you roll:
1-4: You instead use the power you assigned to the number rolled
5: Your DM selects one of the powers you chose, but choses the target. This target can be anyone, even if the normal target of the power would be yourself.
6: Nothing happens.

Does this satisfy?
#28

Chris24601

Jul 02, 2009 16:31:12
Explosive Runes
You scribe a set of glowing mystic runes onto an object or a location, imbuing them with magical power. Once you finish the runes fade from ordinary sight.

Level: 4 Component Cost: 100 gp
Category: Warding Market Price: 150 gp
Time: 10 minutes
Key Skill: Arcana
Duration: Permanent

The biggest concern I have here is that even the 3E version of Explosive Runes did not have a duration of permanent. They had a duration of "Until Discharged" (which is also a duration used by some 4E Rituals). Permanent implies it can be triggered multiple times.

My second concern is that while certain conditions may keep a ritual from being completed, they never fail due to a poor Ritual check (a skill boosted by a ritual may still fail, but the ritual doesn't fail to provide it's bonus). The standard results tables from the PHB pretty much lay out that a 19 or less produces the weakest effect, 20-29 produces a moderate effect, 30-39 a strong effect, and a 40 or better gives the best result.

Similarly, the 3E version of explosive runes had a 10 foot radius which would translate in 4E to a close burst 1 (certainly not a close burst 4). The damage to those not directly reading the runes could also be reduced or avoided with a reflex save, which also suggests that in converting it to 4E there should be an attack roll versus Reflex to determine whether the runes inflict damage.

Perhaps the damage should be a fixed amount; ongoing 5 fire (save ends) per tier of the caster (so epic explosive runes would be ongoing 15 fire) would probably be appropriate; and the ritualist's Arcana check instead serves as the attack roll against a target's Reflex defense. Obviously, the higher damage versions would need to use more expensive ritual components (rather like Raise Dead does) to maintain game balance. I'd suggest that the price be 800 gp for paragon tier and 21,000 gp for epic tier (making them the equivalent to level 14 and 24 level alchemical items in terms of price).

Who actually needs rules for wishes? They are just absolute DM fiat. They are also beyond the power level of even 30th level PCs to demand.

Pretty much my feelings as well. Anything capable of providing anyone their deepest wish should probably be a McGuffin in an ongroing story rather than just a spell any wizard might know.

Indeed, a better term for most uses of Wish/Miracle in 3E would probably be "True Anyspell" in that most of its uses involved duplicating some spell the character didn't normally have (just as the Lesser and Greater Anyspells did, only it could duplicate even other 9th level spells).

An "Anyspell" ritual might actually have merit as a 4E Ritual. For a given price the caster may replace any power they know with another power of a similar type and lower level of any class, using the ability score of their choice instead of the power's normal ability to determine success when the power is used.

The ritual would last until the replaced power was discharged, whereupon the PC would regain their normal power the next time they take the appropriate type of rest to regain that power and a seperate price depending on whether an Encounter or Daily power was replaced would probably make balancing the ritual a bit easier.
#29

jesterg86

Jul 02, 2009 16:51:22
I miss skill ranks, but like the new format of skill challenges, as well as the new skill list (with the sole exception of stealing Escape Grab and Escape Restraints from Acrobatics and Pick Pocket and Sleight of Hand from Thievery and putting them in a new skill called Legerdemain. Overall agility is different from manual dexterity is different from mechanical adroitness). Can you recommend a way to scale DCs of skill checks to use the 4e skill challenge with the 3.x method of gaining skills? Also, can you recommend how many skill ranks each class should have?

Thanks.
#30

strudel_lumpycakes

Jul 02, 2009 17:16:08
Miss something from 3/3.5e?

Yeah, I miss the roleplaying factor of D&D.

Any roads, though that leadership feat is nice, how do I do, as a player, if I want to hire any numbers of mercenaries to protect me in my adventures? Let's say, I'm a wizard, and I want a meat shield that can block enemies while I destroy them from afar. How can I do that? And, don't answer "get a party", because that's not what I want. I want mercenaries, payblades that have no opinion in my decisions or a part of the treasures I found in my adventures (other than their payment).

How much you want to pay them would be up to you and the GM, but they talk about how to do this in the mount section. If you add additional, functional NPCs to your party, the DM just adds however much XP your ally is worth to the encounter XP budgets from then on. You could have anything from Kobold Minions to Pit Fiends tagging along, and wouldn't suck up any magic items either.
#31

amthyst_fire

Jul 02, 2009 21:02:14
I am currently missing

Dimensional Anchor.

I think it would go well as a higher level ritual, but lacking access to anything other than the three core 4.0 books, I am at a loss as to how to create it.
#32

AbdulAlhazred

Jul 03, 2009 9:37:18
I miss skill ranks, but like the new format of skill challenges [...]. Can you recommend a way to scale DCs of skill checks to use the 4e skill challenge with the 3.x method of gaining skills? Also, can you recommend how many skill ranks each class should have?

Thanks.

Hmmm. There are actually quite a few ways to get small bonuses to various skills in 4e, but I presume you mean you don't like the fairly hefty +5 trained skill bonus? There are a few ways to create some additional level of flexibility. For example you can certainly use a background to give a skill bonus focused on some specific use of a given skill, like say +4 to swim checks or lock picking.

The real issue is that a feat is a fairly decent amount of character resources. So it really needs to give a pretty hefty bonus to be worth that cost. You could reasonably allow characters to split up their +5 amongst several skills. I don't see that as being a problem.
#33

pyromancer999

Jul 03, 2009 16:07:26
For the Dimensional Anchor, I would recommend you look at the Dimensional Shackles Ritual.

With Skill Ranks, here's what me and my group do: You gain a +1 to a skill you choose every 2 levels. That works, right?

Also, any more requests?
#34

powerattackfortwenty

Jul 03, 2009 18:20:49
I'd like to see some stats for Kender.


Vessel
Prerequisites: Int 13, Con 13
Benefits: You gain a +1 to Int, and you may use Int in place of Con or Str when making checks.

No feat gives a bonus to a stat, so this needs to be changed.
#35

nachtsieger

Jul 03, 2009 19:31:45
I'd like to see some stats for Kender.

Why in God's name would you do this?
#36

powerattackfortwenty

Jul 03, 2009 20:01:41
Why in God's name would you do this?

Kender rule
#37

nachtsieger

Jul 03, 2009 21:27:48
Kender rule

I'm pretty sure this violates a fundamental law of reality, and common sense.
#38

vebrandsson

Jul 03, 2009 22:23:21
I'm pretty sure this violates a fundamental law of reality, and common sense.

Doesn't being able to spontaneously create balls of fire out of nothing also violate these?
#39

amthyst_fire

Jul 03, 2009 22:41:54
For the Dimensional Anchor, I would recommend you look at the Dimensional Shackles Ritual.

Where do you find this? it's not in the PH1, I only have the core books.
#40

ff6shadow

Jul 04, 2009 8:50:13
For kender, just use halfling. They've got the resistance to fear, and the racial power tha epitomizes luck. What else do you need?
#41

Ogiwan

Jul 04, 2009 9:22:01
Aren't you aware that Kender have the racial ability to irritate EVERYONE, both in-game and out-of-game, instantaneously?

Concerning Leadership: Stop trying to get more actions in combat.

Concerning "missing roleplaying": :headexplo

I have quite a few requests! All Uberon Awesomeness!

Thunder Guide: Explorer's Handbook, 64. It's like a class distilled into sweet, sweet Pulp action!

Order of Rekkenmark: Five Nations, 106. It's an affiliation. Just not sure how the changes would differ from 3.5 to 4.

Eldeen Ranger: Eberron Campaign Setting (3.5), 74. It's a nice, Rangery PrC.

Extreme Explorer: Ibid, 79. It's.....extreme.

Longstride Shifters: Ibid, 18-20. I was disappointed that they didn't have them, because I was also a huge fan of....
Reachrunner: Races of Eberron, 153. Speed kills.

The last one is a challenge, but it's also one of the most beautiful PrCs I've seen: the Argent Fist (Faiths of Eberron, 70). The Monk hasn't come out yet, fully, so you have your work cut out for you.
#42

ff6shadow

Jul 04, 2009 9:26:29
Aren't you aware that Kender have the racial ability to irritate EVERYONE, both in-game and out-of-game, instantaneously.

Thats not a kender racial power. Thats the racial power of the type of player who plays kender. :P
#43

Ogiwan

Jul 04, 2009 12:27:34
....po-TAY-to po-TAH-to.
#44

AbdulAlhazred

Jul 04, 2009 13:26:46
Where do you find this? it's not in the PH1, I only have the core books.

No, it is in the Manual of The Planes. If you have access to DDI you can probably find it in the Compendium.
#45

AbdulAlhazred

Jul 04, 2009 13:40:13
With Skill Ranks, here's what me and my group do: You gain a +1 to a skill you choose every 2 levels. That works, right?

Well, the problem with this is that it throws off the maximum expected skill bonuses someone can get a higher levels. Basically you're throwing an extra +15 at 30th onto a skill, potentially.

One of the things with skill bonuses is that they vary a lot from one character to another already. Anything you add into the game that can potentially increase those bonuses even more tends to cause problems.

Think about it this way. The maximum variance in to-hit is generally only a few points for equal level characters. Even at the most extreme it won't go beyond 7 or 8 points except in really far-fetched scenarios for equal level characters. Even at 1st level though skill bonus variance is already as much as +/- 15 points and easily hits more than 10 points. That variance already increases a lot as you go up to epic tier and in some cases it can already reach 40 points. Throwing another source of extra variance in on top of that only makes things worse, especially one that can reach 15 points and is 8 points already at 16th level, which is a lot of points.

Basically what will happen is you get a party where some PCs can succeed without even rolling on skill checks where other PCs have no hope of success at all at the same DC. There are also certain skills that come into play in combat like Athletics, Acrobatics, and Perception which with extra free boosts will just be so high that the monsters are deprived of the use of entire categories of tactics. Imagine a party where all the PCs have another +8 to perception at 16th level. There isn't going to be any stealthing around that party, so forget ambushes or lurkers, they're pretty much useless.

I guess that was a lot of words to say I think this isn't a great idea.
#46

tiwaztyrsfist

Jul 05, 2009 16:15:35
So, the 3.5 Dragonmarks gave bonus powers, where as the 4e dragonmarks give access to rituals.

3.5 Dragonshard items, in particular Syberis Dragonshard items, granted bonuses to the Dragonmark powers, and often allowed Extra Uses of those Daily powers.

The 4e Dragonshard items we have so far (all 9 of them, weapon augments only) grant small bonuses, but little more.


I'd like to see some 4e style items that have the same flavor as 3.5 dragonshard items.
#47

AbdulAlhazred

Jul 06, 2009 8:00:23
So, the 3.5 Dragonmarks gave bonus powers, where as the 4e dragonmarks give access to rituals.

3.5 Dragonshard items, in particular Syberis Dragonshard items, granted bonuses to the Dragonmark powers, and often allowed Extra Uses of those Daily powers.

The 4e Dragonshard items we have so far (all 9 of them, weapon augments only) grant small bonuses, but little more.


I'd like to see some 4e style items that have the same flavor as 3.5 dragonshard items.

Well, if you want marks that grant powers you can use the tattoos that were Dragon a while back. They are just magic items that are tattooed onto your skin.

Then you can simply make up an item that works with that. There are I believe a couple of existing magic items that operate in families.

Really there aren't any specific rules on what can or can't be done with items in 4e. There is a pattern, they generally have no more than a daily power plus properties and enhancement depending on what they are, but that leaves plenty of scope.
#48

pyromancer999

Jul 06, 2009 8:57:24
Changes:

Vessel: Change the +1 to Int to +2 to Int-based checks

Skill Ranks: I think it'd actually be better to change it to +1 to a skill every 3 or 5 levels.


Also, I'm willing to work on the Kender, provided someone directs me to where I can find the 3.5 racial stats for it.
#49

powerattackfortwenty

Jul 06, 2009 21:21:09
Kenders are from the Dragonlance setting
#50

pyromancer999

Jul 07, 2009 11:04:53
Where do I find the DragonLance setting material?
#51

countesskathleen

Jul 07, 2009 14:05:36
I always found the Mystic Wanderer (Magic of Faerûn p.35) to be an interesting concept. How would you imagine that working under 4E as a Paragon Path?
#52

kharanax

Jul 07, 2009 14:36:58
I kind of miss the Duskblade from PHB 2.

I think it might be feasible with a Fighter/Warlock Hybrid, but I am not sure how it would turn out.
#53

fey_feline

Jul 07, 2009 17:57:10
Well, I don't think I can quite convert it into a paragon path, but I can manage a few feats based on it:

Feats with [Quori] require you to first take the Vessel feat.

Vessel
Prerequisites: Int 13, Con 13
Benefits: You gain a +1 to Int, and you may use Int in place of Con or Str when making checks.

Thought Shield[Quori]
Benefits: You gain a +2 to powers with the Psychic keyword.

Quori's Power[Quori]
Prerequisites: have a multi-class feat
Benefit: The quori inside your mind brings its own knowledge to your abilities. Select a class that you have not multi-classed into. You are treated as having multi-classed into it for the purpose of the Acolyte, Adept, and Novice Power feats.

Does this satisfy you?

Yes, quite.

Now....


hrm...

Cataclysm Mage.

Also, the Psiforged race.

I was thinking a Warforged "-Body" feat, that replaces +2 STR with +2 WIS.
#54

nurro

Jul 08, 2009 13:42:23
Also, the Psiforged race.

I was thinking a Warforged "-Body" feat, that replaces +2 STR with +2 WIS.

I agree Psiforged is needed, but something like that won't really help psionic characters that don't use WIS (e.g. the telepath psion). Maybe it could be more along the lines of:

Psiforged [Warforged]
Prerequisites: Warforged, any psionic class
Benefits: You lose your racial +2 bonus to STR and in exchange gain a +2 racial bonus to either INT, WIS, or CHA
#55

elondir

Jul 08, 2009 14:02:57
Here are a few things I'd like to see:

Factotum. As in, when you gain a new power, you can select any power from any class of the appropriate level.

Half-fey template, complete with full flight from the start and spamming charm person at will.

Long-term (1 day/level duration) dominate person.
A programmed amnesia ritual.

A whip of curing. Used to be a +1 spell storing whip in 3.5 that held a cure x wounds spell.

Level 30 rituals on par with 3.5e epic spells or 2e psionic enchantments.

Fast play rules for playing without a battle grid.

A basic attack only class that is balanced to the other classes. (All powrs are completely passive and calculated before battle).

A hottie fey creature like old school dryads, sirines, nymphs, hamadryads, petals, or the Lhiannan Sidhe.

Old school celestials (planetars, solars, astral devas, etc.) or at least with the old style fluff.

Lastai and Scharossar.

A means to have an army of undead at your disposal, or just an army.

Stronghold rules with wondrous architecture.

D20 Future Mutations.

D20 Modern & Future equipment (laser rifles and stuff like that).
#56

pyromancer999

Jul 08, 2009 14:38:25
I haven't seen the regular warforged in 4e, so, sorry, can't help with that. Although, if they have a racial power, I'd replace it with something that allows them to shoot crystals within a burst.

also, where's Catacalsym Mage?

and Elondir, you're going to have to choose only a few of those things that you really want converted, seeing as that is a pretty large list of stuff.
#57

Ogiwan

Jul 08, 2009 14:44:14
A whip of curing. Used to be a +1 spell storing whip in 3.5 that held a cure x wounds spell.

I'm fairly sure they already have a mechanic very similar to Spell Storing. It's something like you channel it into the thing, and then you can use it in combat as an encounter power, unusable until you channel it again. Or whatever.
#58

pyromancer999

Jul 08, 2009 15:00:55
I imagine the whip would be something like: Expend an encounter or daily power, then regain X hp per Y levels of power.
#59

nurro

Jul 08, 2009 16:40:56
I haven't seen the regular warforged in 4e, so, sorry, can't help with that. Although, if they have a racial power, I'd replace it with something that allows them to shoot crystals within a burst.

They can be found in a dragon article (364 if I remember correctly) and in the Eberron Player's Guide.

As for me, the crystal's in a burst thing seems like it would be too similar to the Bladeling racial power.
#60

pyromancer999

Jul 08, 2009 17:47:05
I don't have access to either of those. Also, The Psiforged racial could be targeted against two or three enemies.
#61

ff6shadow

Jul 08, 2009 17:49:52
Dragon 364 was free, wasn't it?
#62

pyromancer999

Jul 08, 2009 17:59:11
I have no idea where Dragon 364 is. And I doubt it's free
#63

ff6shadow

Jul 08, 2009 18:11:20
I'm almost 100% positive 364 is free. Dragon 364.

I think 365 was free as well, possibly even 366.
#64

pyromancer999

Jul 08, 2009 18:25:47
Oh. Well, just replace Warforged Resolve with the shard racial power thing, and modify it according to the Psiforged feat listed earlier.
#65

tiwaztyrsfist

Jul 08, 2009 19:43:54
Psiforged - Race
Similar to the Warforged, these living constructs were also birthed from the Creation Forges of House Cannith. Most people do not realize the difference, though all note the unusual crystals jutting from their form.

Ability Scores: +2 Con, +2 INT or CHA
Size: Med
Speed: 6
Language: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Arcana
Living Construct: as Warforged
Unsleeping Watcher: as Warforged
Warforged Resilience: as Warforged
Creation Forge Birthed: Counts as a warforged for the purposes of feat, powers, Paragon paths, Etc.
Psyforged Mind: +1 to will defense
Psyforged Power: You DO NOT gain the Warforged Resolve Encounter power. INSTEAD, choose one Level 1 At-Will attack power with the Psionic and Augment Keywords. You can use this power once per encounter. You gain 1 PP.

EDIT: Changed the word Psychic to Psionic, I'd used the wrong keyword.
#66

AbdulAlhazred

Jul 09, 2009 8:26:48
Here are a few things I'd like to see:

Factotum. As in, when you gain a new power, you can select any power from any class of the appropriate level.

Dunno what would be so interesting about that... But the 4e bard is pretty darn close. You can't literally take any arbitrary power, but you can multi-class an unlimited number of times. Certainly allows for a huge range of power selections, especially with half-elf.

Half-fey template, complete with full flight from the start and spamming charm person at will.

Yes, well, just do it. Of course there is pretty much no DM in his or her right mind that will let it within 3000 planes of existence of their campaign...

Long-term (1 day/level duration) dominate person.
A programmed amnesia ritual.

Its perfectly feasible. Just write it up. Rituals are simple to invent and I've created dozens of them myself. Honestly the only use I can see for this is as a plot hook for NPCs to use, so why even actually write it up? Just define what the limitations are and have the NPC "cast the ritual" offstage. As something the PCs could ever get their hands on it would need to be horribly expensive.

A whip of curing. Used to be a +1 spell storing whip in 3.5 that held a cure x wounds spell.

You have 2 simple alternatives right now, a Mace of Healing or a Medic's Weapon. I can't see any reason why the Mace couldn't just be a Whip of Healing, it really isn't going to change anything.

Level 30 rituals on par with 3.5e epic spells or 2e psionic enchantments.

There aren't any defined limits on the power of rituals except the common sense of the DM. You can allow anything you want and rituals are dirt simple to make up. You can pretty much lift the description of what it does from your 3.x material if you want. I suppose you MIGHT need some adjustment of mechanics to match 4e in that case. Should be trivial.

Fast play rules for playing without a battle grid.

I doubt there will ever be an official set of rules for this kind of thing, but I've seen people use skill challenges as a core mechanic to do this. Define a certain number of successes that are required to beat the encounter and a certain amount of resource losses for every failure. Put the combatants into 3 ranges, long, short, and close. Powers that have a range of say 10 or more can be used at long range, etc. It will never give you the tactical subtlety of the real thing, but with a few tweaks it can be made to work well enough.

A basic attack only class that is balanced to the other classes. (All powrs are completely passive and calculated before battle).

I don't understand what this is. You want the 3e "all I can do is a basic attack" fighter? Why play 4e? It doesn't strike me as something that is appropriate to 4e and while it is possible in 3e it was uninteresting even then...

A hottie fey creature like old school dryads, sirines, nymphs, hamadryads, petals, or the Lhiannan Sidhe.

Simply describe the 4e versions this way. Monster creation is a very simple system in 4e anyway. Check page 189 of your DMG (and chapter 10 generally).

Old school celestials (planetars, solars, astral devas, etc.) or at least with the old style fluff.

Ummm, then use the old style fluff... lol. They happen to all basically be labeled as Angels now, but there are a wide variety and you can certainly call them anything you want.

Lastai and Scharossar.

Sorry, I have no idea what these are ;)

A means to have an army of undead at your disposal, or just an army.

Stronghold rules with wondrous architecture.

These are issues for role play, not game mechanics. If you want to allow PCs to make armies of undead and run around with them in a party? Well, I think you'll just have to write up some sort of ritual(s) for that. It really doesn't require any new game mechanics.

There must be at least 20 threads around here with various iterations of converting or designing rules for strongholds and such. I think the easiest way to do it is just use the 3.x material on that. It shouldn't require a whole lot of tinkering with.

D20 Future Mutations.

D20 Modern & Future equipment (laser rifles and stuff like that).

Again there have been dozens of threads on fire arms and futuristic weapons use in 4e. I haven't seen anything on mutations, but I expect it should be pretty easy to adapt them from one of the other d20 based apocalypse genre games that are out there. Isn't there a d20 Gamma World?
#67

pyromancer999

Jul 09, 2009 9:16:27
Psyforged Power: You DO NOT gain the Warforged Resolve Encounter power. INSTEAD, choose one Level 1 At-Will attack power with the Psychic and Augment Keywords. You can use this power once per encounter. You gain 1 PP.

I don't think this is a feasible racial class feature. Currently, the only power with the Psychic and Augment keywords(that I know of) is Eyebite. So, I'd replace it with an actual racial power of some sort. I've made the actual racial power I suggested, and another. I'd suggest allowing them access to both, but only able to use one per encounter:

Crystal Shards_________Psiforged Racial Power
A couple of shards elongate and pop out of your body. You throw these shards at your enemies.

Encounter[]Psionic

Standard Action Ranged 10

Target: Two enemies within range
Attack: Dex +2 vs. Reflex

Hit: 1d6 + Dex damage.
Special: This damage changes to 2d6 + Dex damage at 11th level, and 3d6 + Dex damage at 21th level.


Shard Armor___________Psiforged Racial Power
The crystal shards in your body elongate slightly and sharpen. Anyone trying to hit you is going to regret it

Encounter[]Psionic

Standard Action Personal
Trigger: An enemy attacks you using a melee basic attack, or targets you with a melee power.
Attack: Dex +2 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Dex damage. This power is in effect until the start of your next turn.
Sustain(Minor): The power persists until the start of your next turn.
Special: You can only sustain this power a number of times equal to the tiers you have(This means Heroic = sustain once, Paragon + sustain twice, Epic = sustain thrice)


What do you think of those?
#68

tiwaztyrsfist

Jul 09, 2009 14:55:11
Augment, not Implement.

I.E. the At Wills from the Psion class, and probably the at wills from the other non-monk psionic classes to come from PHB3.
#69

pyromancer999

Jul 09, 2009 16:20:32
True, but those classes haven't been released yet, so the racial feature isn't feasible right now.
#70

fey_feline

Jul 09, 2009 19:55:11
I haven't seen the regular warforged in 4e, so, sorry, can't help with that. Although, if they have a racial power, I'd replace it with something that allows them to shoot crystals within a burst.

also, where's Catacalsym Mage?

and Elondir, you're going to have to choose only a few of those things that you really want converted, seeing as that is a pretty large list of stuff.

Magic of Eberron again-should be an ED though, not a PP.

Should be... requires an Arcane class, and INT 20<.

You chose a "destiny". It's pretty damn skimpy.
#71

pyromancer999

Jul 10, 2009 8:47:39
Magic of Eberron again-should be an ED though, not a PP.

Should be... requires an Arcane class, and INT 20<.

You chose a "destiny". It's pretty damn skimpy.

Whaaaaat??? I'm confused.
#72

sushijunkie

Jul 13, 2009 15:48:38
How about a Hellfire Wyrm? It can be found on page 125 of the Monster Manual 2. It was by far my favorite monster in 3.0/3.5 and I was quite depressed to find that it was not in any of the books or magazines thus far.

The level, etc. are all up to whatever you can come up with. no limits so long as it is as close to the 3.0 version as possible without breaking 4.0.
#73

pyromancer999

Jul 14, 2009 9:29:30
Ooookay. Though, just so you know, I'm still not completely familiar with 4e monsters, so this could take a while.