mkill's big bag of 4th edition feats

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

mkill

Jan 28, 2009 10:26:08
Like the similar thread for 3rd edition feats a while back, I've started this thread to post my ideas for new feats for your 4th edition D&D game. I'll post the feats in batches, and collect the ones that found community approval here in the first posts.

Feel free to comment and point out any weaknesses, broken combos, hard to understand rules and any other criticism you have. Praise is welcome too.
#2

mkill

Jan 28, 2009 10:26:41
Heroic Feats

(final versions)

Arcane Beastspeak
Prerequisite: trained in Arcana and Nature
Benefit: You can communicate by spoken language with all creatures of the magical beast type.

Carnival of Carnage
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to attacks against minions.

Cenobite Apprentice [Githzerai]
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Benefit: You gain a +2 proficiency bonus to unarmed strikes, and the damage die of your unarmed attacks is increased to 1d8.

Fey Tongue [Elf, Eladrin]
Prerequisite: Fey Origin racial trait
Benefit: You can communicate by spoken language with all creatures of fey origin.

Fire and Ice
Prerequisites: Con 13, Dex 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the fire or cold keyword.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Gish Assault [Githyanki]
Prerequisite: Githyanki, Swordmage, Aegis of Assault
Benefit: When taking a melee basic attack as part of your aegis of assault, that attack deals psychic damage equal to your Intelligence modifier on a miss.

Improved Feint
Prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: You can use the Bluff maneuver to gain combat advantage as a minor action.

Light and Shadow
Prerequisites: Wis 13, Cha 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the radiant or necrotic keyword.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Mental Fortress [Githzerai]
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Benefit: You gain resistance against psychic damage equal to 5 + half your level.

Mindfire
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the fire or psychic keyword.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Orc Brutality [Orc]
Prerequisite: Orc
Benefit: You treat the battleaxe, the flail, the greataxe and heavy flail as Brutal 2

Pest Control
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to attacks against creatures with the swarm keyword. If you use a power with the poison keyword against them, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage dealt (if any).

Rogue Shooter [Rogue]
Prerequisite: Rogue
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the shortbow. You can use the shortbow with all powers and class features that can be used with a crossbow.

Sacred Cloak [Cleric]
Prerequisite: Cleric, Channel Divinity class feature
Benefit: When wearing cloth armor or no armor, you can use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity or Intelligence for armor class.

Saracen Stalker [Rogue]
Prerequisite: Rogue
Benefit: You gain proficiency with Scimitars. You can use any rogue power that allows a light blade with the scimitar.

Screaming Aegis [Githyanki]
Prerequisite: Githyanki, Swordmage, Aegis of Shielding
Benefit: When an enemy triggers your aegis of shielding, that enemy takes psychic damage equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Shadar-Kai Soldier [Shadar-Kai]
Prerequisite: Shadar-Kai
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all light blades and all flails. You gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with Katars and Spiked Chains.

Shadow Harvest [Shadar-Kai]
Prerequisite: Shadar-Kai
Benefit: Once per round, when you use a power with the teleportation keyword, you can heal yourself a number of hit points equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Shadow Walker
Benefit: Add +2 to the number of squares you can move with all powers with the teleportation keyword.

Spell Precision
Prerequisite: Dex 13, arcane power source
Benefit: When you attack an ally with a burst, blast or area attack power, the ally gains a +2 bonus to defense against that attack.

Note: This was written before I found the feat War Wizardry in the FRPG p. 139.

Undead Hunter
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to hit against creatures with the undead keyword.

Vitriolic Venom
Prerequisites: Con 13, Wis 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the acid or poison keyword.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Weapon Finesse
Benefit: When wielding a light blade, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier for basic attacks.
#3

mkill

Jan 28, 2009 10:27:17
Paragon Feats

Cenobite Master [Githzerai]
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Special: If you score a critical hit with an unarmed strike, that enemy is stunned until the end of your next turn.

Deafening Sound
Benefit: If you score a critical hit with a power that has the sonic keyword, that enemy is deafened (save ends).

Fiery Dance
Prerequisites: Int or Cha 17, Dex 15
Benefit: If you miss with an attack that has the fire keyword, and you wouldn’t otherwise still deal damage on the miss, you deal fire damage to your original target equal to your Dexterity modifier. This damage receives no modifiers or other benefits you normally gain on damage.

Goblin's Escape [Goblin]
Benefit: When you use your Goblin Tactics racial power, you also negate any mark placed on you.

Orcish Battle Magic
Prerequisite: Orc, arcane power source, Int 15
Benefit: When you charge, you can use an arcane close blast at-will or encounter power instead of a melee basic attack.

Orcish Grunt Command [Orc]
Prerequisite: Orc, Warlord
Benefit: Once per round, when you grant an ally an extra melee basic attack with a Warlord power, that ally can add your Constitution modifier to the damage of the attack.

Shadow Cut [Shadar-Kai]
Prerequisite: Shadar-Kai
Benefit: When you use your Shadow Jaunt racial power, you gain a +3 bonus to the next melee attack within the same turn.

Set on Fire
Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a power that has the fire keyword, that enemy takes 5 points of ongoing fire damage (save ends).

Swashbuckler Style
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Cha 15
Benefit: You gain a +1 shield bonus to armor class if you wear light armor and wield a light blade and nothing in your off-hand.
#4

mkill

Jan 28, 2009 10:27:49
Epic Feats

Enlarge Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: If you spend an action point, you can double the size of any blast, burst or area power you use that round instead of taking an extra action.

Epic Mobility
Prerequisite: Dex 19
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to AC and Reflex defense until the start of your next turn if you move more than 3 squares during your turn.

Epic Iron Mind [Githzerai]
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Benefit: When you use Iron Mind as an interrupt against an attack, you can immediately make a saving throw against any condition caused by the attack (except dying).

Epic Warrior's Surge [Orc]
Prerequisite: Orc, Con 17, Warrior's Surge, one martial encounter power
Benefit: If you hit with your Warrior's Surge racial power, you regain the use of one martial encounter power you have spent.

Fateful Grasp of the Reaper
Benefit: You ignore necrotic resistance up to 20 with your necrotic powers.

Impaling Force
Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a power that has the force keyword, that enemy is restrained and takes 5 points of ongoing damage (save ends both).

Magic Missile Madness
Prerequisite: Magic Missile
Benefit: Once per round, you can use the Magic Missile at-will power as a minor action.
#5

mkill

Jan 28, 2009 10:41:02
First Batch

Heroic Feats

Arcane Tongue
Prerequisite: trained in Arcana
Benefit: You can communicate by spoken language with all creatures with the magical keyword.

Carnival of Carnage
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attacks against minions.

Fey Tongue [Elf, Eladrin]
Prerequisite: Fey Origin racial trait
Benefit: You can communicate by spoken language with all creatures with the fey keyword.

Light and Shadow
Prerequisites: Wis 13, Cha 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the radiant or necrotic descriptor.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Pest Control
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attacks against creatures with the swarm keyword. If you use a power with the poison keyword against them, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage dealt (if any).

Rogue Shooter [Rogue]
Prerequisite: Rogue
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the shortbow. You can use the shortbow with all powers and class features that can be used with a crossbow.

Shadar-Kai Soldier [Shadar-Kai]
Prerequisite: Shadar-Kai
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all light blades and all flails. You gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with Katars and Spiked Chains.

Shadow Harvest [Shadar-Kai]
Prerequisite: Shadar-Kai
Benefit: Whenever you use a power with the teleportation descriptor, you heal a number of hit points equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Shadow Walker
Benefit: Add +2 to the number of squares you can move with all powers with the teleportation descriptor.

Spell Precision
Prerequisite: Dex 13, arcane power source
Benefit: When an ally is a target of one of your burst, blast or area attack powers, you can grant this ally a +2 bonus to defense against the attack.
#6

rikiji

Jan 28, 2009 11:59:23
Overall, they look fairly good. I'd consider changing the prequiste of Fey tongue to Fey so that it's available for any future fey races that might become available (such as Gnomes).
#7

moondoggy

Jan 28, 2009 12:48:57
The Shadar-Kai feats are nice, and I thought Pest Control was ha-ha funny. Overall these feats look pretty balanced, Carnival of Carnage seems a good pick if you know minions are going to be prominent later campaign. Good work.

I agree with Rikiji on the fey thing though. Perhaps a "Prerequisite: Trained in Nature" like Arcane Tongue.
#8

mkill

Jan 28, 2009 21:56:44
Good point about allowing future Fey races. Changed. Oh, and Pest Control and Carnival of Carnage were changed from unnamed to feat bonuses.

Second Batch

Heroic Feats

Cenobite Apprentice
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Benefit: You gain a +2 proficiency bonus to unarmed strikes, and the damage die of unarmed attacks is increased to 1d8.

Gish Assault
Prerequisite: Githyanki, Swordmage, Aegis of Assault
Benefit: When taking a melee basic attack as part of your aegis of assault, that attack deals psychic damage equal to your Intelligence modifier on a miss.

Mental Fortress
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Benefit: You gain resistance against psychic damage equal to 5 + half your level.

Mindfire
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the fire or psychic descriptor.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Orcish Grunt Command
Prerequisite: Orc, Warlord
Benefit: When you grant an ally an extra melee basic attack with a Warlord class power, that attack deals additional damage equal to your Constitution modifier.

Orcish Battle Magic
Prerequisite: Orc, arcane power source
Benefit: You can use close blast powers as part of a charge instead of a melee basic attack.

Sacred Cloak
Prerequisite: Cleric, Channel Divinity class feature
Benefit: When wearing cloth armor or no armor, add your Wisdom modifier as a feat bonus to armor class.

Screaming Aegis
Prerequisite: Githyanki, Swordmage, Aegis of Shielding
Benefit: When an enemy triggers your aegis of shielding, that enemy takes psychic damage equal to your Intelligence modifier.


Paragon Feats

Cenobite Master
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Special: If you score a critical hit with an unarmed strike, that enemy is stunned until the end of your next turn.

Shadow Cut
Prerequisite: Shadar-Kai
Benefit: When you use your Shadow Jaunt racial power, you gain a +3 bonus to the next melee attack within the same turn.
#9

Rustmonster

Jan 28, 2009 22:21:38
Carnival of Carnage
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to attacks against minions.



I get the reference. :P
#10

Qube

Jan 29, 2009 6:24:15
> Pest Control

I see no reason why poison = +2 damage.

> Shadar-Kai Soldier [Shadar-Kai]

I don't like proficiency and damage bonus with a superiour weapon (spiked chain). but thats personal oppinion. (don't get me started about DWT with splatbooks)

> Shadow Harvest [Shadar-Kai]

prone to powerplay: just waiting till the first class with a teleportation a will power ... (hey, a variant wizard perhaps ...)

> Shadow Walker

don't know about balanced ... its hard to find something to compare it against ...

> Spell Precision

why not a simelar feat for divine/partial?

> Cenobite Apprentice

a feat can grant you proficieny in a superiour weapon. why wast it on prof+2/1d8 damage?

> Mental Fortress

don't know about balanced ... its hard to find something to compare it against ...

> Orcish Grunt Command

I think this one is overpowered.

> Orcish Battle Magic

I think this one is overpowered.

> Sacred Cloak

overpowered: at higher level, Cloath armor + dex + wis will be higher then fullplate (requires 2 feats). a fixed bonus would be better
#11

fragsie

Jan 29, 2009 6:53:07
A quick note on wording rather than balance, i notice that you've mixed up Creature Origin with Keyword in a couple of places, and used Descriptor instead of keyword as well. Keywords relate to damage types or effect types (i.e. poison, fire, charm, teleportation), when you refer to a creatures type (like in your *** tongue feats) you should refer to it as the creatures Origin.

Some of these look quite nice, good work
#12

rikiji

Jan 29, 2009 10:02:03
I'd have to agree that Orcish Battle magic is overpowered - at least for heroic tier. Comparable feats in Martial Power are epic tier and only work for encounter powers.
#13

mkill

Jan 30, 2009 0:27:13
> Pest Control

I see no reason why poison = +2 damage.

Because you kill rats with poison. Also, swarms are very uncommon mosters, so the feat should give a bit more than just a +1 to attack.

> Shadar-Kai Soldier [Shadar-Kai]

I don't like proficiency and damage bonus with a superior weapon (spiked chain). but that's personal opinion. (don't get me started about DWT with splatbooks)

If you don't like DWT ban it in your campaign. As for what's core D&D, it exists and sets the bar. My Shadar-Kai Soldier writeup limits the bonus to two weapons, rather than "every axe and hammer we ever publish", so it's still fairly sane. Spiked chain and katar are superior for utility rather than high damage die, so it does not create a new DPR monster.
In any case Katar and Spiked Chain are iconic weapons of the Shadar-Kai, and I'm pretty fine with the race as first pick for Spiked Chain fighter or Katar Rogue/Tempest/2WF Ranger.

> Shadow Harvest [Shadar-Kai]

prone to powerplay: just waiting till the first class with a teleportation a will power ... (hey, a variant wizard perhaps ...)

What about limiting it to once per round? That way it won't break even if someone comes up with something crazy like unlimited teleports as a free action.

> Shadow Walker

don't know about balanced ... its hard to find something to compare it against ...

There is a feat that gives a flat +1 to speed. You don't teleport as much as you do normal moves, so I think a +2 is fine.

> Spell Precision

why not a similar feat for divine/martial?

Because if clerics attack their allies, there is usually a good reason for it.

> Cenobite Apprentice

a feat can grant you proficiency in a superior weapon. why waste it on prof+2/1d8 damage?

If you want to play a Streetfighter-type of character that uses blank fists, there is no good way to build one yet.

> Mental Fortress

don't know about balanced ... its hard to find something to compare it against ...

What about the Tiefling fire resistance racial feature.

> Orcish Grunt Command

I think this one is overpowered.

Please be more specific.

> Orcish Battle Magic

I think this one is overpowered.

It is, now I see it too. I was too in love with the image of a crazy Orc Wizard charging into the enemy line and unleashing a thunderwave. As written, it also allows Swordmages a charged flame cyclone at first level, and a lot more high-level shenanigans. As written, it even allows magic item blast powers.

What do you think about a push to paragon and a limit to at-will and encounter powers?

> Sacred Cloak

overpowered: at higher level, Cloath armor + dex + wis will be higher then fullplate (requires 2 feats). a fixed bonus would be better

What do you think about Wis instead of Dex, rather than Wis and Dex? For a starting Wis 20, this is an AC bonus of +5, maximum +9. This is pretty much equal to chain mail, which is what the feat is supposed to do.

PS: It would make your posts easier to read if you use a browser with an integrated spellchecker, such as Firefox.
#14

Qube

Jan 30, 2009 5:21:55
Because you kill rats with poison. Also, swarms are very uncommon mosters, so the feat should give a bit more than just a +1 to attack.

we kill rats with poison, because we let them eat it, and IIRC it has a delayed effect. we probbalbly would kill rats with flamethrowers if it would be cheaper.
If you don't like DWT ban it in your campaign. As for what's core D&D, it exists and sets the bar.

thats your right. I'm just saying: 'I don't like it, but I'm biased'
Spiked chain and katar are superior for utility rather than high damage die, so it does not create a new DPR monster.

I could be wrong, but doesn't a spiked chain deal 2d4? meaning that it benefits most from damage increases, reroll 1's and exlosive dice (ref to vorpal).
What about limiting it to once per round? That way it won't break even if someone comes up with something crazy like unlimited teleports as a free action.

I was thinking more in the lines of once per encounter. (or twice per encounter, or something).

Balance wise: think what would happen if you bring out the same feat, but for 'cold' spells ...
There is a feat that gives a flat +1 to speed. You don't teleport as much as you do normal moves, so I think a +2 is fine.

true.
Because if clerics attack their allies, there is usually a good reason for it.

why is that different for arcanists?
If you want to play a Streetfighter-type of character that uses blank fists, there is no good way to build one yet.

I was thinking more in the lines of 'this feat is underpowered'.
one feat for a +2/1d8 weapon? a feat can give you proficiency in a +3/1d10 heavy blade.
What about the Tiefling fire resistance racial feature.

thats not a feat. I mean, that its hard to find a feat to compare it against, to see if its powerfull or not.
Please be more specific.

granting a damage-bonus equal to a stat to - amongst other things - an at will power, seems more of a paragon layer feat, then a heroic tier feat.
What do you think about a push to paragon and a limit to at-will and encounter powers?

seems like a good start...


What do you think about Wis instead of Dex, rather than Wis and Dex? For a starting Wis 20, this is an AC bonus of +5, maximum +9. This is pretty much equal to chain mail, which is what the feat is supposed to do.

mathematically, it seems good... but doesn't that make it prone to powerplay? (the good old "how to get stat X as bonus for Y").
woudn't the following be easier?

Sacred Cloak
Preq: channel divinity
Effect: When wearing cloth armor or no armor, you gain +3 armor bonus to AC.
(powerwise: this feat gives you a hide armor, without the armor check penalty)

PS: It would make your posts easier to read if you use a browser with an integrated spellchecker, such as Firefox.

I have one (I'm using Firefox3). But allas, but it checks dutch words. almost any word I type on this forum is underlined ...
#15

mkill

Jan 31, 2009 8:13:07
(Orcish Grunt Command)
granting a damage-bonus equal to a stat to - amongst other things - an at will power, seems more of a paragon layer feat, then a heroic tier feat.
seems like a good start...

I checked the discussion about Marked Scourge. "Add ability score X to damage" feats are the basis of most max damage builds, so I guess I should be more careful.

So I moved the feat up to Paragon and limited it to once per round, one ally. It should be okay now. For Warlords, Con is only a tertiary ability score, and unless your want to build a secondary defender or take certain weapon and armor feats the Con score is probably not too high. At best, we're talking about an 18.

(Sacred Cloak)
mathematically, it seems good... but doesn't that make it prone to powerplay? (the good old "how to get stat X as bonus for Y").
woudn't the following be easier?

Since Wis is the main attack stat for (Laser-)Clerics the answer is pretty simple: Their Wis score is as high as they can get it. So the feat has to be balanced for a char that starts with Wis 20 and boosts it up to 28. And the feat is written with that in mind. I think it works pretty well for what it is intended to do: Give players who want a "preacher" rather than a "crusader" cleric a viable build option.

Ok, time for the next round.

Third Batch

Heroic Feats

Fire and Ice
Prerequisites: Con 13, Dex 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the fire or cold keyword.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Improved Feint
Prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: You can use the Bluff maneuver to gain combat advantage as a minor action.


Paragon Feats

Enlarge Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: You can prepare a spell instead of a 4 levels higher spell of the same type (daily or utility). This doubles the spells blast or burst radius.

Fiery Dance
Prerequisites: Int or Cha 17, Dex 15
Benefit: If you miss with an attack that has the fire keyword, and you wouldn’t otherwise still deal damage on the miss, you deal fire damage to your original target equal to your Dexterity modifier. This damage receives no modifiers or other benefits you normally gain on damage.

Set on Fire
Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a power that has the fire keyword, that enemy takes 5 points of ongoing fire damage (save ends).

Goblin's Escape [Goblin]
Benefit: When you use your Goblin Tactics racial power, you also negate any mark placed on you.


Epic Feats

Epic Mobility
Prerequisite: Dex 19
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to AC and Reflex defense until the start of your next turn if you move more than 3 squares during your turn.

Impaling Force
Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a power that has the force keyword, that enemy is restrained and takes 5 points of ongoing damage (save ends both).

Epic Iron Mind [Githzerai]
Prerequisite: Githzerai
Benefit: When you use Iron Mind as an interrupt against an attack, you can immediately make a saving throw against any condition caused by the attack (except dying).

Epic Warrior's Surge [Orc]
Prerequisite: Orc, Con 17, one martial encounter power
Benefit: When you use your Warrior's Surge, you regain the use of one martial encounter power you have spent.

Magic Missile Madness
Prerequisite: Magic Missile power
Benefit: You can shoot Magic Missiles as a minor action.
#16

Qube

Jan 31, 2009 8:41:49
(oh, btw, before I forget: nice work. I have a tendency to focus on the bad parts, but that doesn't mean I think its all bad ...)

> Fire and Ice
about the name: perhaps 'frostburn' ?

> Enlarge Spell [Metamagic]
4 levels 'higher' ? I think know what you mean, but the wording seems ... strange (or I just drank too much :D )

> Fiery Dance
just noting: a attack with a flaming sword also has the fire keyword.
(arful dodger tieflings :p )

> Goblin's Escape [Goblin]
I don't like it. I don't see the use. IIRC most monsters don't mark ...

> Epic Warrior's Surge [Orc]
seems ... powerfull

> Magic Missile Madness
I'm a huge fan of Isaacs missle storm, so I love what you're trying to do, but ... "12d4+3*INT+3*implement bonus" at will ? isn't that somewhat over the top?
not to mention that you can throw magic missles in addition to your other spells ... (you can use up all unspend actions on them: you odn't move this turn? MM. don't have a minor action effect? MM ...)
#17

mkill

Jan 31, 2009 10:39:24
(oh, btw, before I forget: nice work. I have a tendency to focus on the bad parts, but that doesn't mean I think its all bad ...)

No problem. I need criticism to find the weaknesses. And I'm old enough to take it.

> Fiery Dance
just noting: a attack with a flaming sword also has the fire keyword.
(artful dodger tieflings :p )

The feat is for them... and tiefling warlocks of course.

> Goblin's Escape [Goblin]
I don't like it. I don't see the use. IIRC most monsters don't mark ...

There is a number monsters that do, especially the soldier type. Two very common ones are the Skeleton and the Hobgoblin Soldier. Both are level 3.

> Magic Missile Madness
I'm a huge fan of Isaacs missile storm, so I love what you're trying to do, but ... "12d4+3*INT+3*implement bonus" at will ? isn't that somewhat over the top?
not to mention that you can throw magic missles in addition to your other spells ... (you can use up all unspend actions on them: you odn't move this turn? MM. don't have a minor action effect? MM ...)

4d4+Int+Implement bonus is 10+8+5=23 average at 21st level with maximum score and the best item. So you can deal 69 damage if you don't move and don't need a minor action and all 3 attacks hit. DPR 34.5. It does get a lot better with Lvl 23 Bracers of Perfect Shot, which add +6 damage per hit, for an effective DPR 43.5. That's not bad, considering it only takes a fairly standard at-will, a feat and an item, but other builds do almost 60 DPR with a standard action at that level, so I'm not exactly worried.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1132406

The wizard himself has powers like Combust (lvl 17 enc), an area bust 2 with 5d6+Int+Implement damage. If he hits another monster for 4d4+Int+Implement that round, does that make much of a difference?
#18

mkill

Jan 31, 2009 10:47:13
A quick note on wording rather than balance, i notice that you've mixed up Creature Origin with Keyword in a couple of places, and used Descriptor instead of keyword as well. Keywords relate to damage types or effect types (i.e. poison, fire, charm, teleportation), when you refer to a creatures type (like in your *** tongue feats) you should refer to it as the creatures Origin.

Good point. I thought everything in that line is a keyword, but now I checked the MM again. I fixed both feats. Also, it makes sense that you need both Arcana and Nature to speak with magical beasts, so I changed Arcane Tongue.
#19

Qube

Jan 31, 2009 12:04:12
4d4+Int+Implement bonus is 10+8+5=23 average at 21st level with maximum score and the best item. So you can deal 69 damage if you don't move and don't need a minor action and all 3 attacks hit. DPR 34.5. It does get a lot better with Lvl 23 Bracers of Perfect Shot, which add +6 damage per hit, for an effective DPR 43.5. That's not bad, considering it only takes a fairly standard at-will, a feat and an item, but other builds do almost 60 DPR with a standard action at that level, so I'm not exactly worried.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1132406

(1) I don't know how optimized the build is, but a feat that gives +1000 damage is balanced: this build (points to pun pun) does it better. I'm sarcastic of course, but comparing damage of one feat against an entire build - of a striker?


a dex based, spiral tower wizard tiefling with a flame blade .
- the tiefling +1 attack (and +1 damage, which does not stack) feat
- Mind fire +3 damage
- bracers of perfect shot (+6 item bonus to damage)
- Fiery dance (assuming +4 dex mod)
- a +4 fire longsword as implement (lvl 20)
- Devestating critical (crit=+1d10 damage)

av. damage: 4d4 +8 int +4 impl +6 bracer +3 feat = 31
DPR: (31*0.55 + 4*0.4 + 46*0.05) + = 20.95
--> so 3 magic missles make 62.85


ooh 'solid sound' (+2 bonus to fort/refl/will if you use a force power) gives an unnamed bonus ... so this combo gives +6 :D
#20

mkill

Jan 31, 2009 19:21:12
... but comparing damage of one feat against an entire build - of a striker?

Tempest Fighter is a defender... ;)
#21

Qube

Feb 01, 2009 2:01:16
Tempest Fighter is a defender... ;)

and pun pun is a kobold ;)
(I deliberately used striker-build, instead of striker class)

(edit: seeing how the highest stats of the deadly trickster are 24str 20wis and -> if I use a demigod, I can get 22 dex (giving me +6 dex mod instead of +4), increasing the DPR with 2.4. Thats 58.738 mellee vs 65.25 ranged.)
#22

mkill

Feb 01, 2009 7:44:44
I thought that there was a fighter power that allows to take a melee basic attack as a minor action. But then I checked the PHB and Martial Power and I didn't find it. On the other hand, there are a number of stance powers that allow a fighter to take basic attacks as a free action against opponents, with different triggers. When you consider these, a fighter can deal way more than 60 DPR.

There is one feat, that works similar to Magic Missile Madness, and that is Quick Beast Command, which allows a Beast Master Ranger to let his beast make a melee basic attack as a minor action. The damage potential of that attack is lower, though. 1[W]+Str, usually 1d8+7, plus you can deal Hunter's Quarry damage (3d6).

All in all, I'd say the feat is within line of what Epic feats can do.
Since it's very simple and straightforward, I wouldn't know how to tone it down easily.
#23

mkill

Feb 01, 2009 21:23:35
Fourth Batch


Heroic Feats

Orcish Brutality [Orc]
Prerequisite: Orc
Benefit: You treat all melee weapons without the Brutal quality as Brutal 2.

Saracen Stalker [Rogue]
Prerequisite: Rogue
Benefit: You gain proficiency with Scimitars. You can use any rogue power that allows a light blade with the scimitar.

Undead Hunter
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to hit against creatures with the undead keyword.

Vitriolic Venom
Prerequisites: Con 13, Wis 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to the damage of all powers with the acid or poison keyword.
At 11th level, this bonus increases to +2. At 21st level, it increases to +3.

Weapon Finesse
Benefit: When wielding a light blade, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier for basic attacks.


Paragon Feats

Controlled Shifting
Prerequisite: Shifter
Benefit: You can activate your shifting power even when not bloodied.
Special: You can have either the Controlled or the Uncontrolled Shifting feat, not both.

Deafening Sound
Benefit: If you score a critical hit with a power that has the sonic keyword, that enemy is deafened (save ends).

Swashbuckler Style
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Cha 15
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to armor class if you wear light armor and wield a light blade and nothing in your off-hand.

Uncontrolled Shifting
Prerequisite: Shifter
Benefit: You always gain the bonuses for shifting when you are bloodied.
Special: You can have either the Controlled or the Uncontrolled Shifting feat, not both.

Epic Feats

Fateful Grasp of the Reaper
Benefit: You ignore necrotic resistance up to 20 with your necrotic powers.
#24

poseph

Feb 01, 2009 22:47:45
Orcish Brutality - This feat is definitely a no. A vorpal glaive w/ gauntlets of destruction was already bad enough - with brutal 2 it seems like a nightmare. It also makes the fullblade strictly better than the execution axe.

Saracean Stalker- Looks okay at first. Although, if this feat allows you to sneak attack with scimitars (which it should) there might need to be a sneak attack die reduction (1 die will certainly be sufficient) Although, the fact that you don't get the rogue weapon talent on a +2 prof. weapon may be a balancing factor in and of itself.

Undead Hunter- Looks fine.

Vitrolic Venom- This is strictly weaker than weapon focus, because some monsters have acid resistance, iirc. No monster has weapon resistance.

Weapon Finesse- Seems fine.

Controlled Shifting- Seems okay for a paragon level feat.

Deafening Sound- Yeah, seems great.

Swashbuckler Style- I'd make it a shield bonus, but this seems okay.

Uncontrolled Shifting- Since this power normally does not end when you are not bloodied, this actually makes it seem a little underpowered.

Fateful Grasp of the Reaper- Seems to be balanced, and maybe a little weaker than irresistible flame. (Fire resistance is the most common, so that feat is slightly more valuable than this one,)
#25

mkill

Feb 02, 2009 2:42:24
Orcish Brutality - This feat is definitely a no. A vorpal glaive w/ gauntlets of destruction was already bad enough - with brutal 2 it seems like a nightmare. It also makes the fullblade strictly better than the execution axe.

Ah, 1d4 and 2d4 weapons are a too good with this one if you consider the vorpal enchantment. But for the feat to make sense, it's not necessary to work with every weapon. If you limit it to weapons like the greatsword and the Battleaxe, it's still a good feat.


Saracean Stalker- Looks okay at first. Although, if this feat allows you to sneak attack with scimitars (which it should) there might need to be a sneak attack die reduction (1 die will certainly be sufficient) Although, the fact that you don't get the rogue weapon talent on a +2 prof. weapon may be a balancing factor in and of itself.

The balancing factor is the feat cost. Scimitar and Katar are available to the rogue at the cost of a feat, and they're both better than the scimitar. The advantage of the scimitar is that it opens Heavy Blade Opportunity and Scimitar Dance to rogues.

Vitrolic Venom- This is strictly weaker than weapon focus, because some monsters have acid resistance, iirc. No monster has weapon resistance.

True, but you can't take weapon focus for implement powers... This feat is balanced against Burning Blizzard etc., not Weapon Focus.

Btw. swarms have resistance against melee and ranged attacks, which covers most weapon attacks.

Swashbuckler Style- I'd make it a shield bonus, but this seems okay.

Is there something like a shield bonus in 4th edition? And even if, it's weird to get a shield bonus for *not* wielding a shield.

Uncontrolled Shifting- Since this power normally does not end when you are not bloodied, this actually makes it seem a little underpowered.

Back to the drawing board with this one. What if the feat limits the shifting to the time you're bloodied, but you get higher bonuses?
#26

Qube

Feb 02, 2009 8:41:33
On the other hand, there are a number of stance powers ...

Since it's very simple and straightforward, I wouldn't know how to tone it down easily.

3 notes:
(1) powers are not the same as feats. its not because theres a power that does X, that there should be a feat that does X.
(2) the DPR of a wizard is also higher: the fighter's stances compareable to ongoing damage: instead of 'activate stance X, Y, Z, and then deal much damage using the compared power' you can say 'cast ongoing spell X,Y,Z and then compare the damage using the compared spell'

(3) about toning down: how about making it a 'move action' instead of a minor action? minor action are only used when you have powers that use them (like healing word, ...). the MMM feat gives wizards a permanent way to use up all actions. this becomes less so if they need to spend a move action on it ...



> Orcish Brutality [Orc]
agree with Poseph. overpowered: think of a vorpal 2d4 weapon.

> Weapon Finesse
doens't the rogue have a dex-based power that says that it can be used as basic attack? this feat makes that at-will useless (since a at-will is much more expensive then a feat)

> Swashbuckler Style
this one I like I agree with Poseph on typing the bonus

> Fateful Grasp of the Reaper
are there statistisc concerning resistances (how many monsters at epic level have them, and how much?) - could be usefull to make a feat with a symilar effect, without bluntly copying existing feats.

(for example, suppose all monsters have at least fire resistance 20, and necro resistance 10; a feat 'you deal +10 damage with all necro spells' would be the same, yet different ...)




... which reminds me, for MMM-DPR: my lvl 21 tiefling retrains a lower level feat to irreistable flame, increasing the damage of his magic missles (all 3 of them) pass about every monsters resistance (except those with resist force X and resist fire X+20)
#27

mkill

Feb 02, 2009 17:38:44
Rewrites:

Orcish Brutality [Orc]
Prerequisite: Orc
Benefit: You treat the morningstar, battleaxe, greataxe, flail, heavy flail and greatsword as Brutal 2 weapons.

[/i](3) about toning down: how about making it a 'move action' instead of a minor action? minor action are only used when you have powers that use them (like healing word, ...). the MMM feat gives wizards a permanent way to use up all actions. this becomes less so if they need to spend a move action on it ...

Giving the Wizard a way to use up his actions is the point of the feat.

> Orcish Brutality [Orc]
agree with Poseph. overpowered: think of a vorpal 2d4 weapon.

Btw., A brutal 2 2d4 vorpal weapon is pretty nasty, but not as nasty as it looks.
If you do the math, vorpal + brutal 2 1d4 yields an average of 4.5 = 1d8. It's still sick for powers with lots of [W], but not much more than oversized weapon abuse.

> Weapon Finesse
doens't the rogue have a dex-based power that says that it can be used as basic attack? this feat makes that at-will useless (since a at-will is much more expensive then a feat)

There's none in PHB I and none in MP, so there is none.
#28

mkill

Feb 03, 2009 6:11:36
Ok, I've moved the third batch up.

Changes:

-- Warrior's Surge only regains a power on a hit. There is no need to hand out a freebie here.

-- I reduced Magic Missile Madness to "as a minor action once per round". I created this feat to give Epic Wizards a useful way to use their minor actions, not to encourage some "wannabe striker 3 MM per round" build.

-- I'm not sure what to do with Enlarge spell. I really liked how 3rd edition introduced metamagic, but the concept does not translate well to 4th edition.

Two ideas for a different approach:

Enlarge Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: If you spend an action point, you can double the size of any blast, burst or area power you use that round instead of taking an extra action.

... or ...

Lightning Expertise
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: When using a blast, burst or area power with the lightning keyword, you can increase or decrease the radius by 1.

-- Swashbuckler Style: Sorry, no shield bonus. If you want a shield bonus, get a shield. If you take a feat instead, you get a feat bonus.
Something I really didn't like about 3rd edition was how they put completely illogical bonus types on things just for stack/no stack reasons. So I won't bring that to 4th ed.
#29

Qube

Feb 03, 2009 7:59:39
Orcish Brutality [Orc]
Prerequisite: Orc
Benefit: You treat the morningstar, battleaxe, greataxe, flail, heavy flail and greatsword as Brutal 2 weapons.

small note: even if you take 1-dice weapons, you do realize that this feat gives you on average +1 damage per [W], right?

Giving the Wizard a way to use up his actions is the point of the feat.

doesn't that create imbalance?

Btw., A brutal 2 2d4 vorpal weapon is pretty nasty, but not as nasty as it looks.
If you do the math, vorpal + brutal 2 1d4 yields an average of 4.5 = 1d8. It's still sick for powers with lots of [W], but not much more than oversized weapon abuse.

math, you say? lets take X the damage of the brutal 2 vorpal d4.
lets see: brutal 2 gives 50% chance on a 3, and 50% chance on 4 + a reroll (which again is a brutal2 vorpal die, = X)
X = 3*.5 + (4+X)*.5 = 1.5 + 2+ .5X
.5X = 3.5
X = 7
a brutal2 vorpal d4 has an average of 7 damage.
2d4 brutal 2 vorpal thus has an average 14 damage

If you spend an action point, you can double the size of any blast, burst or area power you use that round instead of taking an extra action.

that reminds me of psionic metamagic: they spend their psionic focus. either way, sounds fun.
#30

mkill

Feb 03, 2009 22:18:29
-- If you take a feat for a superior weapon, you can usually get a weapon with the same features but a one higher die size. That equals +1 damage per W, and it stacks with Weapon Focus or other feats that give a feat bonus to damage.

Orcish Brutality works in a similar way, but instead a Martial Weapon gains an additional feature to make it equal to a superior weapon. That appears balanced to me.

-- Brutal 2 1d4: Your math is right. Sorry, my mistake. The 4.5 average damage applies to Brutal 1.
#31

Qube

Feb 04, 2009 4:05:12
-- If you take a feat for a superior weapon, you can usually get a weapon with the same features but a one higher die size. That equals +1 damage per W, and it stacks with Weapon Focus or other feats that give a feat bonus to damage.

Orcish Brutality works in a similar way, but instead a Martial Weapon gains an additional feature to make it equal to a superior weapon. That appears balanced to me.

good point. I indeed didn't look at it that way
#32

mkill

Mar 02, 2009 9:20:27
*casts Resurrect Thread*

No updates for a while since I was busy. But now I pushed the 4th batch to final and we're ready to go for more. There is one change, "Swashbuckler Style" is a shield bonus now. Yes, I was wrong and you guys were right. I looked up Two-Weapon Defense and realized it's a shield bonus, too. A bad habit from 3rd edition, if you ask me, but that's how the devs set the example so I'll go with it.
I also dropped the Shifter feats. Shifters just deserve something more worthy.

Okay, but you were waiting for new feats, right?

Fifth Batch

Heroic Feats

Duelist's Honour
Prerequisite: Cha 13
Benefit: When an enemy marks you, you also mark that enemy if that enemy has no other mark already placed on him. The mark lasts as long as the enemy's mark, or until the end of your next turn, whichever is longer.

Hand-Eye Coordination
Prerequisite: Wis 15
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to your Reflex defense, and a +1 feat bonus to Acrobatics checks.

Home Terrain
Prerequisite: Wis 13
Benefit: Choose one type of terrain. When you are in that type of terrain, you gain a +2 feat bonus to Athletics, Endurance, Nature, Perception and Stealth checks.
Example terrains: arctic, tundra, forest, jungle, steppe, desert, mountains, open sea, astral sea

Sharp Mind
Prerequisite: Int 15
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to your Will defense, and a +1 feat bonus to Insight checks.

Unrelenting Spirit
Prerequisite: Cha 15
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to your Fortitude defense, and a +1 feat bonus to Endurance checks.

Paragon Feats

Ground Combat
Prerequisite: Dex 13, trained in Acrobatics
Benefit: When prone, you do not grant combat advantage, and you don't take a penalty to your attack rolls. You can stand up from prone as a minor action.

Epic Feats

Bursting Challenge
Prerequisite: Paladin, Divine Challenge class feature
Benefit: If an enemy takes radiant damage from your Divine Challenge class feature, all enemies adjacent to it take 3 + your Charisma modifier radiant damage.

Mental Resurgence
Prerequisite: Iron Will
Benefit: When you roll a saving throw against the dazed, dominated or stunned conditions, roll twice and take the better result.

Physical Resurgence
Prerequisite: Great Fortitude
Benefit: When you roll a saving throw against the immobilized, petrified, restrained, slowed and weakened conditions, roll twice and take the better result.

After writing this I noticed that this feat doubles with Martial Resolve from Martial Power. Ah well, great minds think alike.

Swordmage Assault Tactics
Prerequisite: Swordmage, Aegis of Assault class feature
Benefit: If you hit an enemy with the attack that is triggered by your Aegis of Assault, that enemy grants combat advantage to you and all allies until the end of your next turn.
#33

Qube

Mar 02, 2009 9:53:50
> Duelist's Honour
I don't know how long mark usually lasts, but I would let the Duelist's Honour mark last until end of your next turn (suppose the enemy's mark lasts until the beginning of his turn, he's never really marked, then, because the mark you have on him also ends ...)
#34

mkill

Mar 02, 2009 10:43:19
Fixed.

Also, I noticed the feat "Martial Resolve" in MP. This leads me to fix Mental Resilence.

Heroic Feats

Give to Gods Own
Prerequisites: Paladin, Lay on Hands
Benefit: When you use your Lay on Hands feature on an ally, you also heal yourself a number of hit points equal to your Strength modifier.

Hasten Ritual
Prerequisites: Ritual Caster
Benefit: You are able to cast rituals in half the required time with a -2 penalty to the skill check. You cannot shorten the time by more than 2 hours, or to less than 5 minutes.
At Paragon level, you can take a -4 penalty to the check to reduce the required time to a fourth. Minimum time is 3 minutes, and you cannot shorten by more than 4 hours.
At Epic level, you can divide the required time by six if you are willing to take a -6 penalty to the roll. The minimum required time is 2 minutes, and you cannot shorten the duration by more than 6 hours.

Paragon Feats

Extra Channel Divinity
Prerequisites: Divine power source, Channel Divinity
Benefit: You gain two uses of Channel Divinity per encounter. You can still use the individual powers only once.

Epic Feats

Mental Resolve
Prerequisites: 21st level, Cha 15, either trained in Insight or Iron Will
Benefit: You can make saving throws against the dazed, stunned and dominated conditions at both the start and the end of your turn.

Sturdy
Prerequisites: 21st level, Con 17, either trained in Endurance or Great Fortitude
Benefit: You can make saving throws against ongoing damage conditions at the start, before taking the damage, and the end of your turn.

Gift of the Samaritan
Prerequisites: 21st level, Paladin, Lay on Hands
Benefit: You can use your Lay on Hands feature a number of times per encounter, instead of per day, determined by your Wisdom modifier.