Modern Class: The Shooter - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Modern Class: The Shooter

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
epochgames
Mar 13, 2009 5:01:56 As some of you may have read, I am working on a modern version of 4e. I'm open to comment and critique of this rough I have worked up on my new class--The Shooter. It is essentially a modern-based ranger.

The draft itself has some issues I am aware need address--possible simple typos (a misspelled word or errant keystroke), placer art needs replaced, and formatting needs a bit of improvement.

I'm looking to add some paragon paths/abilities, and am taking suggestions on those.

In the meantime, I'm looking for opinions on balance.

I envy you guys who have everything worked out to format all nice and pretty in these forums. I, instead, put a pdf up. You can view it here.
#2
fragsie
Mar 15, 2009 10:15:57 I've only had a brief look through, but what isee, i like though the change of colours on powers makes it a little less intuitive. Would you mind if I adapted this class for my HB setting? Credit given of course, speaking of, you haven't put your name on the pdf anywhere, it's a good idea to include your email so that people who come across it through other means than the forums can get in contact with you if they have any feedback.
#3
epochgames
Mar 15, 2009 15:14:36 Please use whatever you would like. I'll update the PDF with info. I keep thinking people can get my email addy here, but they can't....I should update my sig. Email addy is [email]ccorniuk79@yahoo.com[/email]

I'll be honest, there is a lot of borrowing from the original source material in here, and I was working with ff6shadow yesterday and he was showing me his tricks when it comes to creating new powers, so this first version may be significantly different from the final.
#4
ceiling90
Mar 16, 2009 0:32:34 Hmmm... I wish you stuck to the Green, Red, and Black color Scheme...It's sort of confusing otherwise. Also nitpicky on formatting, it's weird to see thing dangled.

Notes:
Sniper Focused Fire
There is no full round action or well equivalent of such. This feature could go two ways for me;
1) Either you spend a move action to gain that bonus; without moving, so as to put into effect the idea of the sniper setting up and taking the shot...
2) or... you make it where, something like "if you have not moved yet in this round, you gain..." for it to be more passive.

Hold Them Off
You can only take one immediate action per round anyway... I think, so you don't have to put that caveat of "once per round".

Cover Shot
You can easily say that they gain a +2 shield bonus... actually, It's probably better to be +1 then +2 at 21st; and since this class doesn't at all look shield proficient, it could work... Unless you think for some reason someone would like to actually use a shield with is class.

Right on Target
This can still use the + Dexterity Modifier to damage, no reason not to...

Nice Try
This should be an immediate interrupt.

Make Them Bleed
I don't like that it's a Dex attack, and then it does wisdom damage. I think it should more like a fighter power caveat, with the power doing as is, save for the fact everything should be dex based, and with the caveat of "If you're a sniper Shooter, the targets takes extra ongoing damage equal to your Wisdom modifier".

Ricochet Shot
I also don't like it... something about the secondary attack is weird to me. It's the use of Wis being randomly thrown in.... I think what it should do.. is that the shot should negate cover of any sort, being a daily and all... and "If you're a sniper shooter one adjacent enemy to target takes wisdom modifier damage."

Hmmmm.... I think you should change some of the Build options and their benefits.

I think Gunslinger shouldn't have quick draw, it's a nice feat and all, but... gunslingers, at least in john woo movies, are basically gun wielding martial artists. I think they should have the ability to shoot within melee range without getting OA's. I think that's a bit powerful, but then again, they're supposed to be dual wielding pistols; so being in melee is kinda not so grand.

The Sniper route... I think it should tie in with Wisdom more, So far I'm okay with my earlier suggestions for this feature.

I'll go over more powers later, but so far this is what I think.
#5
epochgames
Mar 16, 2009 1:20:48 You're right. The red white and blue was done for thematic reasons, but does provide a bit of an issue. I've switch over to this for now, but haven't done this to the shooter file yet just due to the time required to do it.

Your suggestions on the powers are good ones, and I'll be putting them into action once I get to editing the shooter file here shortly.

As for the build options, I do have to review those. In particular, the sniper option got screwed while I was going over the initial draft of powers.
#6
epochgames
Mar 16, 2009 2:03:31 Okay, went back to the green, red, black color scheme.

I also made most of the changes ceiling suggested. There were two I was stuck on though.

Withe Right on Target being a 1st level encounter power, I decided to give it 3[W] damage instead of 2[W] + Dexterity like similar existing powers. I believe that the added Weapon damage would be too much with Dexterity added as well. I've got one person so far agreeing that the Dex should be dropped and one saying it shouldn't, so I'm open to any other opinions here.

Should Nice Try be an immediate interrupt or an immediate reaction. I believe the way it was intended was to be struck and then respond which would make it an immediate reaction. If immediate interrupt isn't a balance issue, that would be cooler, IMO.

I believe I'm looking at making your suggestion for Ricochet Shot a separate power and revamping the current to negate the Wisdom modifier and put in Dex, but haven't quite decided yet.

Revamped with the "right" colors is here.
#7
ceiling90
Mar 16, 2009 19:05:57 The difference between an interrupt and a reaction... well if nice try were an interrupt:

The enemy makes to attack you, is successful, but you stop them; right before they attack by basically moving a space and shooting back. - which to me is a more like nice try...

If it were a reaction:

The enemy hits you, you take damage, and then as a vengeful act, or at least payback, you move back and make a basic ranged attack.

Note: I think you should probably change that to "make a basic ranged attack"... unless you have a polearm or some other reach weapon, or you shift diagonal and still adjacent to the enemy and attack.... either way it's still good mobility and damage in one power.
#8
epochgames
Mar 16, 2009 19:19:55 Yeah, I understand the difference between interrupt and reaction. This was originally made to be a reaction, because I thought interrupt might make it too powerful, but looking over some other abilities at this level, it doesn't seem out of place as an interrupt. And, you're right, it should say basic ranged attack. That missing link between my brain and yours, after all, is all in the wording. Thanks again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 epochgames Mar 13, 2009 5:01:56	As some of you may have read, I am working on a modern version of 4e. I'm open to comment and critique of this rough I have worked up on my new class--The Shooter. It is essentially a modern-based ranger. The draft itself has some issues I am aware need address--possible simple typos (a misspelled word or errant keystroke), placer art needs replaced, and formatting needs a bit of improvement. I'm looking to add some paragon paths/abilities, and am taking suggestions on those. In the meantime, I'm looking for opinions on balance. I envy you guys who have everything worked out to format all nice and pretty in these forums. I, instead, put a pdf up. You can view it here.
#2 fragsie Mar 15, 2009 10:15:57	I've only had a brief look through, but what isee, i like though the change of colours on powers makes it a little less intuitive. Would you mind if I adapted this class for my HB setting? Credit given of course, speaking of, you haven't put your name on the pdf anywhere, it's a good idea to include your email so that people who come across it through other means than the forums can get in contact with you if they have any feedback.
#3 epochgames Mar 15, 2009 15:14:36	Please use whatever you would like. I'll update the PDF with info. I keep thinking people can get my email addy here, but they can't....I should update my sig. Email addy is [email]ccorniuk79@yahoo.com[/email] I'll be honest, there is a lot of borrowing from the original source material in here, and I was working with ff6shadow yesterday and he was showing me his tricks when it comes to creating new powers, so this first version may be significantly different from the final.
#4 ceiling90 Mar 16, 2009 0:32:34	Hmmm... I wish you stuck to the Green, Red, and Black color Scheme...It's sort of confusing otherwise. Also nitpicky on formatting, it's weird to see thing dangled. Notes: Sniper Focused Fire There is no full round action or well equivalent of such. This feature could go two ways for me; 1) Either you spend a move action to gain that bonus; without moving, so as to put into effect the idea of the sniper setting up and taking the shot... 2) or... you make it where, something like "if you have not moved yet in this round, you gain..." for it to be more passive. Hold Them Off You can only take one immediate action per round anyway... I think, so you don't have to put that caveat of "once per round". Cover Shot You can easily say that they gain a +2 shield bonus... actually, It's probably better to be +1 then +2 at 21st; and since this class doesn't at all look shield proficient, it could work... Unless you think for some reason someone would like to actually use a shield with is class. Right on Target This can still use the + Dexterity Modifier to damage, no reason not to... Nice Try This should be an immediate interrupt. Make Them Bleed I don't like that it's a Dex attack, and then it does wisdom damage. I think it should more like a fighter power caveat, with the power doing as is, save for the fact everything should be dex based, and with the caveat of "If you're a sniper Shooter, the targets takes extra ongoing damage equal to your Wisdom modifier". Ricochet Shot I also don't like it... something about the secondary attack is weird to me. It's the use of Wis being randomly thrown in.... I think what it should do.. is that the shot should negate cover of any sort, being a daily and all... and "If you're a sniper shooter one adjacent enemy to target takes wisdom modifier damage." Hmmmm.... I think you should change some of the Build options and their benefits. I think Gunslinger shouldn't have quick draw, it's a nice feat and all, but... gunslingers, at least in john woo movies, are basically gun wielding martial artists. I think they should have the ability to shoot within melee range without getting OA's. I think that's a bit powerful, but then again, they're supposed to be dual wielding pistols; so being in melee is kinda not so grand. The Sniper route... I think it should tie in with Wisdom more, So far I'm okay with my earlier suggestions for this feature. I'll go over more powers later, but so far this is what I think.
#5 epochgames Mar 16, 2009 1:20:48	You're right. The red white and blue was done for thematic reasons, but does provide a bit of an issue. I've switch over to this for now, but haven't done this to the shooter file yet just due to the time required to do it. Your suggestions on the powers are good ones, and I'll be putting them into action once I get to editing the shooter file here shortly. As for the build options, I do have to review those. In particular, the sniper option got screwed while I was going over the initial draft of powers.
#6 epochgames Mar 16, 2009 2:03:31	Okay, went back to the green, red, black color scheme. I also made most of the changes ceiling suggested. There were two I was stuck on though. Withe Right on Target being a 1st level encounter power, I decided to give it 3[W] damage instead of 2[W] + Dexterity like similar existing powers. I believe that the added Weapon damage would be too much with Dexterity added as well. I've got one person so far agreeing that the Dex should be dropped and one saying it shouldn't, so I'm open to any other opinions here. Should Nice Try be an immediate interrupt or an immediate reaction. I believe the way it was intended was to be struck and then respond which would make it an immediate reaction. If immediate interrupt isn't a balance issue, that would be cooler, IMO. I believe I'm looking at making your suggestion for Ricochet Shot a separate power and revamping the current to negate the Wisdom modifier and put in Dex, but haven't quite decided yet. Revamped with the "right" colors is here.
#7 ceiling90 Mar 16, 2009 19:05:57	The difference between an interrupt and a reaction... well if nice try were an interrupt: The enemy makes to attack you, is successful, but you stop them; right before they attack by basically moving a space and shooting back. - which to me is a more like nice try... If it were a reaction: The enemy hits you, you take damage, and then as a vengeful act, or at least payback, you move back and make a basic ranged attack. Note: I think you should probably change that to "make a basic ranged attack"... unless you have a polearm or some other reach weapon, or you shift diagonal and still adjacent to the enemy and attack.... either way it's still good mobility and damage in one power.
#8 epochgames Mar 16, 2009 19:19:55	Yeah, I understand the difference between interrupt and reaction. This was originally made to be a reaction, because I thought interrupt might make it too powerful, but looking over some other abilities at this level, it doesn't seem out of place as an interrupt. And, you're right, it should say basic ranged attack. That missing link between my brain and yours, after all, is all in the wording. Thanks again.