For BRUTAL 2 weapons, the fix is super, super simple: Drop the die type by 1 and add 2 to the damage. D12 Brutal 2 (like Execution Axe) gives *identical* damage results to D10+2. D10 Brutal 2 (like Craghammer) gives *identical* damage results to D8+2.
Then, all you have to remember is that [W] includes that +2, so [2W] with a craghammer means 2d8+*4*, and you're done. No rerolls required, and the results are absolutely statistically identical, even for weird edge cases like Vorpal rerolls. The only complication is that multiples of [W] require remembering to multiplying the +2 as well.
(If, for some reason, there is ever a Brutal 2 weapon with a *d4* damage die, then this will work there, too: roll any die. Odd is 1, even is 2, then add 2.)
Unfortunately, Brutal 1 doesn't have such an easy fix. Subtracting a die type and adding 1 gives you a *similar* but not identical result - it carries a lower max damage. Anyone got a suggestion, for that?
So, I hate Brutal. Needing to rerolls damage, sometimes multiple times, just slows the game down.
For BRUTAL 2 weapons, the fix is super, super simple: Drop the die type by 1 and add 2 to the damage. D12 Brutal 2 (like Execution Axe) gives *identical* damage results to D10+2. D10 Brutal 2 (like Craghammer) gives *identical* damage results to D8+2.
Then, all you have to remember is that [W] includes that +2, so [2W] with a craghammer means 2d8+*4*, and you're done. No rerolls required, and the results are absolutely statistically identical, even for weird edge cases like Vorpal rerolls. The only complication is that multiples of [W] require remembering to multiplying the +2 as well.
(If, for some reason, there is ever a Brutal 2 weapon with a *d4* damage die, then this will work there, too: roll any die. Odd is 1, even is 2, then add 2.)
Unfortunately, Brutal 1 doesn't have such an easy fix. Subtracting a die type and adding 1 gives you a *similar* but not identical result - it carries a lower max damage. Anyone got a suggestion, for that?
I think in some cases halving larger dice and rounding up would work.
For D4 Brutal 1, what you really want is 1+1D3. If you rolled D6 and rounded up, you'd get even chances of 1, 2, or 3, which is what you want.
For D6 Brutal 1 you could use this trick with a D10.
It doesn't work for Brutal 1 D8/D10/D12, though, since you'd need D14/D18/D22 which aren't available to the best of my knowledge. I can't really think of a solution for those that's elegant enough to take less work than just rerolling the 1's.
Yeah what I do is much simpler, you just change it so the have a minimum, hard part is just remembering that you have a brutal weapon. One of my players has a craghammer, whenever he rolls into the brutal mechanic he just changes it to the minimum I think in this case it's 3. pretty simple and it works.
Actually, that gives me an idea. If you don't mind peaking the distribution slightly, treat a 1 as average damage for that weapon, which will be a whole number for Brutal Weapons.
So for example the results on a Brutal 1 D4 would go 3,2,3,4.
Brutal 1 D6- 4,2,3,4,5,6.
Brutal 1 D8- 5,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.
If that seems hard to remember (you need to memorize the middle value for your weapon) you could just add one if the value is half or less of the maximum value. Same distribution of results as the first solution, but perhaps easier to remember on the fly.
Brutal 1 D4- 2,3,3,4.
Brutal 1 D6-2,3,4,4,5,6.
Brutal 1 D8-2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8.
The one thing I don't like about this solution is that it peaks your distribution harder around the mean result. But the min, max, and mean are the same, so it's a decent approximation.
I can't really think of a solution for those that's elegant enough to take less work than just rerolling the 1's.
If you're willing to sacrifice "matches rerolls exactly" in favour of "approximately the same over time", you could just define "1" to mean "average roll with no 1s" - so, for a D6 Brutal 1, you'd have {4 2 3 4 5 6}.
(alternate alternate solution: Disallow Brutal weapons entirely. Oh no, you saved a Feat, go spend that on Weapon Focus instead and stop bugging me!)
Over time all "fair" ways will result in the same average damage all around, but... my damage output is based on the NOW and now I want to do 10 points of damage not 6
Over time all "fair" ways will result in the same average damage all around, but... my damage output is based on the NOW and now I want to do 10 points of damage not 6
"1d12, reroll 1s and 2s" is EXACTLY THE SAME IN EVERY WAY as 1d10+2.
Think of it this way: on D12 Brutal 2, 1 and 2 are non-results, since they cause you to reroll automatically and infinitely as long as they keep coming up. Therefore, there are 10 possible results, all equally likely, and the total damage will be 3-12. That's identical to 1d10+2.
Like I said, fixing Brutal 2 is *easy*. It's Brutal 1 that's causing problems and making us think about averages.
Die rolling is the slowest part of the game, and so I want to make it faster and get back to the fun stuff. Having to redo your damage roll (or, worse, reado your damage roll 3-4 times because you got a run of bad luck) is just wasting everyone's time when you could have made just one roll and had a final answer.
You don't really enjoy rolling dice do you?
I love the brutal concept, but I think it should have been named "reroll".
I don't use this rule but it doe require fewer rolls and works for all weapons (except the Mortenkrad, or how ever you spell it the 2D6 brutal 1 weapon)
That having been said, I think it would have been better to use the brutal mechanic (renamed) as a tool to balance some of the weaker weapons: re-rolling low numbers is fun, and an increase in minimum guaranteed damage has its tactical uses.
By featuring it on some of the more powerful superior weapons- the executioner axe and the mordenkrad- it prevents what could have been a fine balance between high max damage and fun, high average damage weapons.
Perhaps implementing rules like those suggested by the OP to the "big" brutal weapons, while keeping the mechanic (and possibly retooling some other weapons to use it) for less mechanically-optimal options would allow for a richer, more interesting spread of weapon options.
Sadly, the spellcasters don't get to enjoy the mechanic, either way...
Your expected damage is the same (for d12 brutal 2 it's 7.5, d10+2 is 7.5), and each result has the same chance of occurring.
The idea of using the 1 (or 2) as an average damage roll does not yield the same results.
Using the d12 Brutal 2 item as an example:
Traditional method-
Possible results-- {3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12}
Average Damage-- 7.5
Chance for any result-- 1 in 10
LordOfWeasels's method-
Possible results-- {3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12}
Average Damage-- 7.5
Chance for any result-- 1 in 10
OsricO's method-
Possible results-{7,7,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12} or {7,8,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12}
Average Damage-- 7.41 or 7.5
Chance for any result-- For all numbers other than 7: 1 in 12, for 7: 1 in 4
or For all numbers other than 7 or 8: 1 in 12, for 7 or 8: 1 in 6
Brutal 1 is a much stickier problem. Let's look at an item that is say, d8 brutal 1-
Possible results-- {2,3,4,5,6,7,8}
Average Damage-- 5
Chance for any result-- 1 in 7
Unless you have a d7 lying around this won't be as easy, but you can generate a number between 1 and 7 using dice-- 2d4
Possible results-- {1+1,1+2,1+3,1+4,2+1,2+2,2+3,2+4,3+1,3+2,3+3,3+4,
4+1,4+2,4+3,4+4} or {2,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,8}
Average Damage-- 5
Chance for any result-- 2 and 8: 1 in 15 3 and 7: 2 in 15 4 and 6: 1 in 5 5: 4 in 15
This is the problem. Brutal (any even number) is easy to take care of, because brutal basically adds .5 to average roll, and only multiple dice have an even average roll.
Brutal (any odd number) can be recreated with one die roll only if you have the right size die. Here is a step by step instructions on how to make a Brutal weapon one die roll:
For any weapon dY brutal X, roll a die of d(Y-X) +X, or d[a(Y-X)]/a +X where a is any whole number.
So a d6 Brutal 1 can be done by rolling a d10/2 +1. If you can't find a die that will fit d[a(Y-X)] there is no way to replicate the exact bell curve. You can get close (a d20/3 +1 almost gives you d8 brutal 1) but the bell curve will be different.
Sorry about the math attack.
How about you just say brutal X means if you roll X or lower, you take the average of the die's roll (d12 = 6.5) -- your choice to round up or down?
Uh, see the post I made right above you.
Although, I can see the time-saving you're looking for.
ThorDiantral