Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 BRJN Jul 05, 2010 16:58:29	I'm really interested in using Curse of the Bloody Fangs (Warlock5) for my character.  However, it has one of those awful (and no-longer-used) Sustain Minor: ... (save ends) clauses.  I would rather not burn a minor action for the chance to let my target escape, when I could be cursing somebody instead.  So, how would these work out: Curse of the Bloody Fangs {everything from Daily to Attack is as printed} Option 1 Hit: 2d10 + CHRmod damage Miss: Half damage Sustain Minor: The target and any of your enemies adjacent to it at the beginning of your turn take 1d10 damage. Option 2 Hit: 2d10 + CHRmod damage, and the target plus any of your enemies adjacent to it at the start of its turn take 1d10 damage (save ends) Miss: Half damage, and nothing further. Which of these two will be easier to manage?  I already know that Option 1 will last longer.  And which option (possibly with text tweaking) is closer to the original writing intent? I might re-name this Radioactive Decay (I'm a StarLock, and the flavor seems good).  When I have something I'm happy with, I'll be posing this change for my DM to allow/disallow.
#2 tedium Jul 06, 2010 8:17:29	You seem to be reading the power differently to how I would, I read the sustain minor:... save ends as being "you may cast the sustain (and do the damage when you cast) until the target saves". Either way, you aren't "burning" the minor any more than you would be without the save (it still does the damage, even if the creature saves on it's next turn), except when you are using it to keep the effect in the hope of the creature moving into a better position for it later (e.g. a kobold fleeing to the group of archers at the back) In essence, until the target saves, you get a burst 1: do d10 damage to all enemies in burst, no attack roll around that target for a minor action. Even if it doesn't hold for long, that's still powerful. Comparing it to the other sustains on the daily powers at that level: Avernian Eruption: Ongoing 5, save ends Same average damage, to the same number of creatures (burst 1), higher initial damage (due to the burst), but nothing on a miss. Also damages allies in burst. Crown of Madness: MBA against adjacent target (minor, save ends) Lower initial damage, ongoing less powerful when you first get the power (generally about d10 + 4 at level 5), and only against one target, higher damage potential at higher levels. Hunger of Hadar: Con vs Fort, 1d6+con damage to creatures in zone (minor, no save), 2d10 damage to creatures entering or starting in zone Much higher damage, but enemies can avoid or leave the zone easily in most cases, or just wait on the other side (so you have no LoS) until you give up the sustain to use your curse. Damages allies. Damagewise, Bloody Fangs is much the same as the others  (aside from HoH), Avernian Eruption doesn't need the sustain, but is an all or nothing daily, and HoH is more situational to get it to work well (since it blocks friendly line of sight as well)
#3 BRJN Jul 06, 2010 19:42:17	I look at ongoing as a fire-and-forget thing; I'm setting off a big bang (the original attack) and if I get trailing effects, that's just gravy but I'm busy elsewhere. A sustainable attack, however, is more of the thing that keeps my attention and is more important.  I'm putting a continuous investment into this attack, and I want to be sure I get a payoff.  I don't want him to save out of it, or have any other form of control. For Bloody Fangs, if I'm going to sustain it, this is because I intend to play Pursuing Avenger: I've already cursed the target (probably), I'm sustaining against him, I'm unloading more Standard Action attacks on him each turn, and taking curse damage on top of that.  I may be moving around to keep him in range.  Everything about this ought to scream out, "I'm going to hunt you down and kill you." A sustainable 'nova': I have Crown of Stars; I can kick out one small attack each turn.  1d10 + 1d6 + CHRmod + mods (Eldritch Blast and curse) + 1d10 (sustain BF) + CHRmod (sustain CoS) ought to give 25-30 HP/turn at level 5 until he can break line of sight or persuade me there is a bigger danger around or KO me.  Only once a day, but surely appropriate for BBEGs.