Monk - Zen Master (Leader) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 machmoth Aug 05, 2008 1:54:10	I've seen a few monks across the boards, though the focus on the kung-fu, wall-breaking aspect of the class never really settled well with me. I know that is how older versions of the class existed, but it's a new edition, and I wanted to try something a little different. I think the martial arts is obviously important to the class, but not the all and entirety of the class. Here is the beginning of my idea, mostly just as a concept sketch. ======================================== Monk Role: Leader. You are a master and teacher of the art of zen. Through your words and actions, you enlighten those you come in contact with. Power Source: Ki. Your path to enlightenment draws out energy that surpasses your mortal potential. Key Abilities: Wisdom, Dexterity, Strength Armor Proficiencies: Cloth Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged, Shuriken Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution Score. Hit Points per Level Gained: 5 Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution Modifier Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose 4 trained skills at 1st level. Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex). Class Features: Pauper's Veil, Soothing Word, Zen Focus Monk Class Features Features Pauper's Veil While wearing cloth armor and no shield, you gain a +3 class bonus to AC. Soothing Word The monk can grant their comrades additional resilience with nothing more than a soothing chant. It functions the same as the Cleric’s Healing Word. Zen Focus The monk does not need material possessions to enhance his abilities, only his own mind and body. At level 5, the monk obtains a new level of enlightenment, granting a +1 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, and hit points healed when using his monk powers. On a critical hit with a monk power, he deals an additional +1d6 damage. These bonuses increase to +2 and +2d6 at level 10, +3 and +3d6 at level 15, +4 and +4d6 at level 20, +5 and +5d6 at level 25, and +6 and +6d6 at level 30.
#2 machmoth Aug 05, 2008 1:54:43	Updates ============ =20-8-2008= * Looked over suggestions, made some tweaks. No new material.
#3 pyromancer2k Aug 20, 2008 7:01:56	Nan-in's Cup is way to powerful. It's got +2 to hit, a miss condition, and it lets you pick a stat for it to be based on. Bankei's Obedience has keyword Charm? Seems kinda odd for a power that just dazes someone and knocks them prone. The AC bonus should probably be increased to 3. Otherwise it's like keeping your guy stuck in leather armor. At least with 3 he has the same as Hide. Your guy looks like he's getting ready to suffer from MAD also. You have powers that are either WIS or STR based which is fine. But then the class needs DEX for AC. If your a light armor class then DEX or INT is a MUST have for primary stat. If you don't your gonna be out at least 4 AC by the time your reach 30 and the monsters will have no trouble hitting you since they already get atk faster then players get AC. The way around that is of course get heavy armor with feats but then your saying to the player you have to spend feats to compensate for the class's MAD issue. Which I know you don't have much laid out yet but thought you should be aware of it. Cause remember monsters grow an extra 30 points while players don't even with support of magic items and they expect the extra +4 from increasing those primary stats to attack. Which means if you don't your would be chance to hit at level 30 is gonna be 20% lower then it should.
#4 danmarlok Aug 20, 2008 9:14:30	I like the idea you've got going here a lot. The wise old monk who seems to move slowly, at peace with himself and the universe and yet things get done rather than the brash arrogant breaking boards right and left monk. The turtle versus the tiger.
#5 machmoth Aug 20, 2008 15:47:54	Nan-in's Cup and Dokuon's Anger have a +2 to attack, because they do not have the Weapon keyword, and so do not get a proficiency bonus to attack. The idea was for the monk attack powers to contain the elements of having a weapon in them. Thus, they have a set damage and attack bonus. Some might have a +3, if representing a blade-like strike. Some might act as if attacking with other weapon properties, such as high-crit. Essentially, the monk's body (or any improvised weapons) is a weapon (a different one in each power). What I would need to change, looking back, is the range. It should be 1, rather than "Weapon", since there isn't technically one (and they shouldn't benefit from one, just because he's carrying a ladder everywhere he goes as a weapon). It would also allow certain powers to have an effect similar to a Reach weapon by setting it to 2. The damages might also need some tweaking. In Nan-in's cup, I was aiming for something similar to Reaping Strike, but since it's a Leader class, the miss-effect reap would come from another character. I went with the choice of abilities because it was asking it of a second character, but it would probably be best to limit it to only Strength. Especially since it would already be doing the effect of a Reaping Strike with a 2H weapon. Bankei's Obedience is almost an exact duplication of the Cleric's Command power. Whatever logic it followed, I did the same. AC 3 would be fair. I really wasn't sure how to go about the AC and Reflex issue, both from a bonus and MAD stand-point. I flirted with the classic "wisdom to armor" equation, and it repeatedly came out broken. I didn't want to make Dexterity a huge issue, but I didn't want to completely neglect it, either. I also played with making Dexterity the attack ability, rather than Strength (like a rogue), which isn't out of the realm of possibility. However, since a monk can make OAs with their at-wills, I wasn't sure just how excessive that might've been. It's something worth considering. Thanks, both, for the input.
#6 pyromancer2k Aug 20, 2008 19:02:21	I over looked the fact it wasn't a weapon based power. Most powers that are not weapon based target a non-AC defense cause it's usually lower. Reaper's strike is the only At-Will with a miss condition. And it is somewhat limited giving only 1/2 the modifier in damage. So if you start at 18 that's only 2 dmg on miss. The full damage requires 2h which means you won't have a Shield thus having like -2 AC. Ah ok. Just thought it was odd having Charm in there. Well even WOTC suggested giving their quick ranger to monk conversion a +3 AC to make-up for the lost of hide armor. And after all leaders aren't suppose to be soft targets. The debate on how to do monk armor has been around a while. And if your not going dex the best route seems to be just allow player to use WIS for determining AC. If you got STR/WIS as your main stats that means you'll have High Fort and Will. The question is do you want your char to also have the Ref? If so you could also base it off wisdom but just know that it adds to the class's overall power.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

machmoth

Aug 05, 2008 1:54:10

I've seen a few monks across the boards, though the focus on the kung-fu, wall-breaking aspect of the class never really settled well with me. I know that is how older versions of the class existed, but it's a new edition, and I wanted to try something a little different. I think the martial arts is obviously important to the class, but not the all and entirety of the class. Here is the beginning of my idea, mostly just as a concept sketch.

========================================

Monk
Role: Leader. You are a master and teacher of the art of zen. Through your words and actions, you enlighten those you come in contact with.
Power Source: Ki. Your path to enlightenment draws out energy that surpasses your mortal potential.
Key Abilities: Wisdom, Dexterity, Strength

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged, Shuriken
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution Score.
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution Modifier

Trained Skills: From the class skills list below, choose 4 trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex).

Class Features: Pauper's Veil, Soothing Word, Zen Focus

Monk Class Features

Features

Pauper's Veil
While wearing cloth armor and no shield, you gain a +3 class bonus to AC.

Soothing Word
The monk can grant their comrades additional resilience with nothing more than a soothing chant. It functions the same as the Cleric’s Healing Word.

Zen Focus
The monk does not need material possessions to enhance his abilities, only his own mind and body. At level 5, the monk obtains a new level of enlightenment, granting a +1 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, and hit points healed when using his monk powers. On a critical hit with a monk power, he deals an additional +1d6 damage. These bonuses increase to +2 and +2d6 at level 10, +3 and +3d6 at level 15, +4 and +4d6 at level 20, +5 and +5d6 at level 25, and +6 and +6d6 at level 30.

machmoth

Aug 05, 2008 1:54:43

Updates
============
=20-8-2008=
* Looked over suggestions, made some tweaks. No new material.

pyromancer2k

Aug 20, 2008 7:01:56

Nan-in's Cup is way to powerful. It's got +2 to hit, a miss condition, and it lets you pick a stat for it to be based on.

Bankei's Obedience has keyword Charm? Seems kinda odd for a power that just dazes someone and knocks them prone.

The AC bonus should probably be increased to 3. Otherwise it's like keeping your guy stuck in leather armor. At least with 3 he has the same as Hide.

Your guy looks like he's getting ready to suffer from MAD also. You have powers that are either WIS or STR based which is fine. But then the class needs DEX for AC. If your a light armor class then DEX or INT is a MUST have for primary stat. If you don't your gonna be out at least 4 AC by the time your reach 30 and the monsters will have no trouble hitting you since they already get atk faster then players get AC.

The way around that is of course get heavy armor with feats but then your saying to the player you have to spend feats to compensate for the class's MAD issue. Which I know you don't have much laid out yet but thought you should be aware of it.

Cause remember monsters grow an extra 30 points while players don't even with support of magic items and they expect the extra +4 from increasing those primary stats to attack. Which means if you don't your would be chance to hit at level 30 is gonna be 20% lower then it should.

danmarlok

Aug 20, 2008 9:14:30

I like the idea you've got going here a lot. The wise old monk who seems to move slowly, at peace with himself and the universe and yet things get done rather than the brash arrogant breaking boards right and left monk.

The turtle versus the tiger.

machmoth

Aug 20, 2008 15:47:54

Nan-in's Cup and Dokuon's Anger have a +2 to attack, because they do not have the Weapon keyword, and so do not get a proficiency bonus to attack. The idea was for the monk attack powers to contain the elements of having a weapon in them. Thus, they have a set damage and attack bonus. Some might have a +3, if representing a blade-like strike. Some might act as if attacking with other weapon properties, such as high-crit. Essentially, the monk's body (or any improvised weapons) is a weapon (a different one in each power). What I would need to change, looking back, is the range. It should be 1, rather than "Weapon", since there isn't technically one (and they shouldn't benefit from one, just because he's carrying a ladder everywhere he goes as a weapon). It would also allow certain powers to have an effect similar to a Reach weapon by setting it to 2. The damages might also need some tweaking.

In Nan-in's cup, I was aiming for something similar to Reaping Strike, but since it's a Leader class, the miss-effect reap would come from another character. I went with the choice of abilities because it was asking it of a second character, but it would probably be best to limit it to only Strength. Especially since it would already be doing the effect of a Reaping Strike with a 2H weapon.

Bankei's Obedience is almost an exact duplication of the Cleric's Command power. Whatever logic it followed, I did the same.

AC 3 would be fair. I really wasn't sure how to go about the AC and Reflex issue, both from a bonus and MAD stand-point. I flirted with the classic "wisdom to armor" equation, and it repeatedly came out broken. I didn't want to make Dexterity a huge issue, but I didn't want to completely neglect it, either. I also played with making Dexterity the attack ability, rather than Strength (like a rogue), which isn't out of the realm of possibility. However, since a monk can make OAs with their at-wills, I wasn't sure just how excessive that might've been. It's something worth considering.

Thanks, both, for the input.

pyromancer2k

Aug 20, 2008 19:02:21

I over looked the fact it wasn't a weapon based power. Most powers that are not weapon based target a non-AC defense cause it's usually lower.

Reaper's strike is the only At-Will with a miss condition. And it is somewhat limited giving only 1/2 the modifier in damage. So if you start at 18 that's only 2 dmg on miss. The full damage requires 2h which means you won't have a Shield thus having like -2 AC.

Ah ok. Just thought it was odd having Charm in there.

Well even WOTC suggested giving their quick ranger to monk conversion a +3 AC to make-up for the lost of hide armor. And after all leaders aren't suppose to be soft targets.

The debate on how to do monk armor has been around a while. And if your not going dex the best route seems to be just allow player to use WIS for determining AC. If you got STR/WIS as your main stats that means you'll have High Fort and Will. The question is do you want your char to also have the Ref? If so you could also base it off wisdom but just know that it adds to the class's overall power.