Last game I identified specifically each monster in the encounter. Players wanted to know a lot - exact hit points, AC, etc etc. We're all still in a learning phase so I spelled it out. But then I stated that really if we were playing "by the book", all I'd tell them is a description, whether they were bloodied or not, and if they succeeded on their Monster Lore roll, that text.
But reading through some examples it became glaringly obvious to me how useless Monster Lore is. Zombie is the perfect example: DC 15 Religion: Most zombies are created using a foul ritual. Once roused, a zombie obeys its creator and wants nothing more than to kill and consume the living. DC 20 Religion: Corpses left in places corrupted by supernatural energy from the Shadowfell sometimes rise as zombies on their own. These zombies have no master and generally attack all living creatures they encounter.
This doesn't tell me (or the players) anything really worth knowing in the heat of combat. There are few counter tactics suggested, no weaknesses, or how to deal with them, even in the most vague and general sense. Most if not all Zombies are immune to disease, resist necrotic, and vulnerable to radiant. This is IMPORTANT information and I would think that it would be something those who learn about Zombies would be studying. Another example is Kobolds. The wyrmpriest is the leader and of a Kobold group and that should be something a knowledgeable character might and should know.
Has anyone else given this some thought and come up with a solution? How do you reveal what the players SHOULD know (given they have the knowledge), while keeping some mystery and surprise?
Check Chapter 5 of the PHB for Monster Knowledge Checks, page 180. It lists the mechanical bonuses players can glean about enemies from a successful check. Repeating that information in the knowledge checks given in the Monster Manuals was probably considered redundant, since it would be rehashing what was already given in the stat blocks.
I kinda have to disagree with you. Monster Lore can be quite convinient. I'm currently playing a lvl 16 character that has encountered 9 kobolds (4 dragonshields, 2 slyblades, 3 wyrmpriests). Piece of cake right? ... I figured, 3 encounter powers and that's it for the encounter.
Untill I roll a monster lore check. 'Kobolds can be in the company of dragons'. a.k.a. the DM could throw in a dragon whenever he wishes - also during combat. That made swings the mood of the entire combat (don't do anything foolish, and don't get hurt, and don't burn trough your encounter powers ... because we don't know if we will encounter a dragon during this encounter ...)
But basically, I use 'm more for story hints then actual combat capabilities
Has anyone else given this some thought and come up with a solution? How do you reveal what the players SHOULD know (given they have the knowledge), while keeping some mystery and surprise?
let them soak in their own grease. I don't give away weaknesses of my monsters - They need to find them theirselves. And when they do, following encounters will be much easier ...
However, I do give away a how damaged they are. bearly damaged, almost bloodied, near dead, ...
I also hint if a hit did do more or less damage then they would expect
Check Chapter 5 of the PHB for Monster Knowledge Checks, page 180. It lists the mechanical bonuses players can glean about enemies from a successful check. Repeating that information in the knowledge checks given in the Monster Manuals was probably considered redundant, since it would be rehashing what was already given in the stat blocks.
Interesting - I've read the PHB cover to cover and I swear that wasn't there before.
That certainly answers most of my concerns. thanks all.I'd probably have the players roll once, and if anyone exceeds DC 25 (resistances, vulnerabilities), give them everything listed, if anyone exceeds DC 20 (powers) give them a little less, and DC 15 (name type, keywords), just that tidbit. Of course if everyone fails they'll be a wee bit confused.
This implies there's a difference between a Monster Knowledge check and a Monster Lore check. I'd always presumed they were the same thing. I'd probably have them both be the same roll.