Monster Math - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Monster Math

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Mand12
Mar 19, 2012 8:39:53 Has anyone tried adjusting the base monster math formulas? I'm hoping to cut down on the grindy aspects, so that combat is still challenging and engaging but simply doesn't take as much time. I haven't yet found a configuration of monsters that results in even a L+1 or higher encounter that doesn't drag on toward the end. The only thing I've really been able to do is L+0, even number of standards to the players. But that's trivial to the point of being boring if that's all that's available to be fought.

I've considered some of the brute force methods, like halving hitpoints and doubling damage, or some similar thing, and I'm wondering what people have used and what advantages and disadvantages are. Those seem to be a little too simple, and unlikely to work.

I'm also considering using two-hit minions with slightly higher damage than normal minions. What effects have two-hit minions had on your encounter design, and what problems have you found with them?
#2
Neutronium_Dragon
Mar 19, 2012 11:14:01 While the underlying idea has merit, half hit points and double damage is not an equal tradeoff - it heavily favors the monsters' damage output in most cases.

Half hit points and +1 damage/level (or +1 damage/2 levels for multitarget powers) is a better balance, ESPECIALLY if you're using creatures from the MM3/MVs onward.
#3
mhbjarkistef
Mar 21, 2012 2:26:30 Almost every DM in 4e uses some kind of houserule to speed up combat, and there is no "right way". Just start experiment and have fun with it.

I personally tend to have my monsters a bit easy to hit, unless they are the "tanky unstoppable" kind. I hate missing as a player, and I know my players are the same. Another good rule is deciding beforehand how many rounds a combat encounter is going to take. How much damage per round is your group doing? You want the combat to take 5 rounds? Then calculate the HP pool of all the present monsters so it will take around that time to take them down, and calculate the monster's damage output so that during that time they still manage to be threatening.

There are some rules of thumb that can be followed, and are all utilized in my monster-stat generating excel file:

Difficult, but counterable.
If you make sure that all your monsters are counterable, your players are guaranteed to have a good time fighting them. Realizing your opponents weakness and utilizing it to kick his ass makes you not only feel like a superhero, but a superhero that fights with his head. This will have the effect that the first 2 rounds of combat will heavily favour the monsters, while the second half of the encounter will favour the heroes... give that they are smart enough to use their heads. Here are a few examples:

Insubstantial
For starters, all creatures with the insubstantial trait should have 50-75% of the normal amount of hit points for that level. Many many insubnstantial creatures have vulnerable force or let radiant damage remove the insubstantial trait for a small amount of time. When your group finally figures this out, the fight will be over a lot quicker, but untill then they are getting their ass handed to them.

Skirmishers
Immobilize a skirmisher and he does not gain a mobility boost to damage and defenses, making the fight shorter and victory sweeter.

Being a Defender
Being a defender is about finding and locking down the most threating foe, while your party (usually) starts of taking down minions and artilleries. I usually target the brute or skirmisher, keeping him away from me group while having so much AC that most of his attacks are wasted on misses. This does not make combat shorter, but it will feel shorter due to the combat-effeciency of the group working as a whole. When each round a monster falls or becomes bloodied, you really feel like everything is happening pretty fast.

After your next encounter, write down what could've gone better. I usually write down stuff like "Solo had too many hit points" or "Group has so much crowd control, BBEG did not manage to be threatening enough due to the fact being prone, grabbed and dazed almost throughout the whole encounter" or even "Bob reacts bad to being dominated, and Gary loves it when his fire-resistance comes to play". This makes making the next encounter a lot easier, even if you only play once a month.

#4
Reg06
Mar 28, 2012 10:08:02 You might find these posts interesting;
- 1st level hitpoints from 1-30
- 1st level damage from 1-30

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mand12 Mar 19, 2012 8:39:53	Has anyone tried adjusting the base monster math formulas? I'm hoping to cut down on the grindy aspects, so that combat is still challenging and engaging but simply doesn't take as much time. I haven't yet found a configuration of monsters that results in even a L+1 or higher encounter that doesn't drag on toward the end. The only thing I've really been able to do is L+0, even number of standards to the players. But that's trivial to the point of being boring if that's all that's available to be fought. I've considered some of the brute force methods, like halving hitpoints and doubling damage, or some similar thing, and I'm wondering what people have used and what advantages and disadvantages are. Those seem to be a little too simple, and unlikely to work. I'm also considering using two-hit minions with slightly higher damage than normal minions. What effects have two-hit minions had on your encounter design, and what problems have you found with them?
#2 Neutronium_Dragon Mar 19, 2012 11:14:01	While the underlying idea has merit, half hit points and double damage is not an equal tradeoff - it heavily favors the monsters' damage output in most cases. Half hit points and +1 damage/level (or +1 damage/2 levels for multitarget powers) is a better balance, ESPECIALLY if you're using creatures from the MM3/MVs onward.
#3 mhbjarkistef Mar 21, 2012 2:26:30	Almost every DM in 4e uses some kind of houserule to speed up combat, and there is no "right way". Just start experiment and have fun with it. I personally tend to have my monsters a bit easy to hit, unless they are the "tanky unstoppable" kind. I hate missing as a player, and I know my players are the same. Another good rule is deciding beforehand how many rounds a combat encounter is going to take. How much damage per round is your group doing? You want the combat to take 5 rounds? Then calculate the HP pool of all the present monsters so it will take around that time to take them down, and calculate the monster's damage output so that during that time they still manage to be threatening. There are some rules of thumb that can be followed, and are all utilized in my monster-stat generating excel file: Difficult, but counterable. If you make sure that all your monsters are counterable, your players are guaranteed to have a good time fighting them. Realizing your opponents weakness and utilizing it to kick his ass makes you not only feel like a superhero, but a superhero that fights with his head. This will have the effect that the first 2 rounds of combat will heavily favour the monsters, while the second half of the encounter will favour the heroes... give that they are smart enough to use their heads. Here are a few examples: Insubstantial For starters, all creatures with the insubstantial trait should have 50-75% of the normal amount of hit points for that level. Many many insubnstantial creatures have vulnerable force or let radiant damage remove the insubstantial trait for a small amount of time. When your group finally figures this out, the fight will be over a lot quicker, but untill then they are getting their ass handed to them. Skirmishers Immobilize a skirmisher and he does not gain a mobility boost to damage and defenses, making the fight shorter and victory sweeter. Being a Defender Being a defender is about finding and locking down the most threating foe, while your party (usually) starts of taking down minions and artilleries. I usually target the brute or skirmisher, keeping him away from me group while having so much AC that most of his attacks are wasted on misses. This does not make combat shorter, but it will feel shorter due to the combat-effeciency of the group working as a whole. When each round a monster falls or becomes bloodied, you really feel like everything is happening pretty fast. After your next encounter, write down what could've gone better. I usually write down stuff like "Solo had too many hit points" or "Group has so much crowd control, BBEG did not manage to be threatening enough due to the fact being prone, grabbed and dazed almost throughout the whole encounter" or even "Bob reacts bad to being dominated, and Gary loves it when his fire-resistance comes to play". This makes making the next encounter a lot easier, even if you only play once a month.
#4 Reg06 Mar 28, 2012 10:08:02	You might find these posts interesting; - 1st level hitpoints from 1-30 - 1st level damage from 1-30