Morale mechanics - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Morale mechanics

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
heathan_v20
Feb 11, 2010 19:19:28 Ever wondered if that goblin should've fled, or if the bandits would surrender? Does that berserking barbarian ever have a fear of death?? Well then this mechanical addition to your 4th Edition campaign will help.

First of all the Morale system is simple...its a Save Throw...either you fight or you flee. If the target fails the Saving Throw it is under the Fleeing status. The Fleeing status is fairly simple and we will cover it later.

First lets talk about when to make a Morale save.

The target is Bloodied.
A Leader is Defeated, Dead, or Flees.
Half of the encounter party has been defeated, dead, or Flees.

Now lets talk modifiers to Morale saves.
The target gains a +2 if it is in a group.
The target gains a +2 if there is a leader in the group.
The target gains a +1 if it has previously made a Morale save and succeeded.
If a PC is Bloodied the target gains a +2, or +4 if a PC is Dying/Dead.

Now the effects of being under the Fleeing status.

Must move away from the fight as quickly as possible.
Movement is always and Run and all effects of Run are applicable.
Must take a double movement if possible.
If the creature cannot Flee it Surrenders.

so tell me what you guys think??? Simple enough.
#2
tequila_sunrise
Feb 11, 2010 20:12:08 I prefer to use DM fiat myself, but I like this system as an effective AI for DMs who want rules for this kind of thing. I'd suggest granting the monsters/NPCs a +2 bonus for every PC who is bloodied and a +4 for every PC who's KOed.
#3
heathan_v20
Feb 12, 2010 9:32:46 I also use DM fiat, but sometimes is just easier to let the dice roll. I wouldn't say a +4 bonus, after all its a save, but then again, if things are looking good why flee??? However I will avoide the "per blah blah blah" bonuses. Instead it will be a +2 if a PC is Bloodied OR +4 if a PC is Dying/Dead.
#4
babyj
Feb 12, 2010 15:43:35 Good way to adjudicate the decision to flee by leaving it up to the dice; in other words: a good variant for DMs who don't want to just decide what they do. If this were instituted, it should also be noted that some monsters will be immune to such ideas, and will fight to the death regardless. And some will flee regardless.

What about the XP reward for those that just bowed down or ran? half for those that have that keyword? or just hand out 3/4 XP when this is used since there is always that chance they will run or fight? (I saw the other thread on Coward)

#5
heathan_v20
Feb 12, 2010 18:22:10 Well unlike most DMs I disagree on the aspect that all XP is based on a kill. I say the opponent was defeated, a win is a win. So I'd give full XP.
As for the some monster's won't flee, I say if it is immune to fear, it won't flee. However, intelligent creatures do realize that fighting to the bitter end, isn't always a good idea.
Also if using the Coward keyword for a monster, I say they always take a -2 or -5 penalty to the save.
#6
Neutronium_Dragon
Feb 12, 2010 19:10:03 > Movement is always and Run and all effects of Run are applicable.

This would probably be going too far - if the creature is trying to get out alive then using Run even when it's a bad idea doesn't fit.
#7
babyj
Feb 12, 2010 20:22:59
if the creature is trying to get out alive then using Run even when it's a bad idea doesn't fit.

Well I would probably just rule that it moves until it can reasonably run, and since this is likely to happen to a creature in the midst of a battle with others who are still fighting, then it would in that situation get the chance to get away far enough after the first shift/move action. In the case of the remaining creature(s) running because they are Fleeing, those that cant get away would surrender should the PCs be a step behind it, since they are reasonably scared and know that tucking tail and running (perform a full run action) would mean getting hit in the process (provokes an OppAtk) and might end its life anyway.
#8
heathan_v20
Feb 12, 2010 22:09:11
Actually think fight or flight.
In all honest combat is best left to instinct. Soldier's train constantly till their tactics are second nature. Their fight response is better then most because it is ingrained and well honed (atleast they hope so).
Now flight is a diferent story. When the flight response kicks in, rationale goes out the window. This is why I chose to put the Run feature in there. There main purpose is to move as fast as they can away from their threat. Their tactics shift less from defense and attacking, and change to, "Everyone out of the pool!" mode. This is why in ancient battles when an enemy would flee the commanders would push their troops even harder then in a regular assualt. Because well, plain and simply the safest way to stab someone is, from behind ("SNEAK ATTACK!!!")
Yes it doesn't seem logical, but that's what it is, an illogical fear of being wipe off the map (litterally). If its a tactical retreat, then that's not Fleeing...that's a sound judgement call.
#9
Kalani
Feb 16, 2010 2:08:37 While I like your approach, I think it fails to account for the "orderly" retreat option. Personally, I feel that two morale saves should be required.

On a first failed morale save in a given encounter, the NPC is Cowed (-2 morale penalty to attack & damage), and will attempt to retreat from combat in an orderly fashion (save ends retreat).

Should a Cowed combatant fail a second morale save in the same encounter, they flee. Fleeing combatants cannot Shift or use Attack Powers, and must Run away from the triggering combat (taking double moves where possible). If the fleeing combatant has powers which can expedite their escape (Teleport, Invisible, Insubstantial, Fly, Burrow, etc), they will use them at their first opportunity.

You can also give monsters different morale keywords such as the following:

Fanatical - Monster never makes morale checks, and will fight to the death.
Reckless - Monster gains +2 bonus on morale saves
Coward - Monster suffers -2 penalty on morale saves

Other than the above, I really like your suggestion and may implement it in order to help simulate the realism of combat, esp. during those times when I am having difficulty RPing the monsters morale for one reason or another.
#10
heathan_v20
Feb 16, 2010 15:45:11 I like your idea Kalani and I'm glad this helpped I'll work out some ideas for morale and try to incorperate yours. I do however want to have this as simple as possible.
Remember Elites and Solos will get +2 or +5 bonuses to their morales.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 heathan_v20 Feb 11, 2010 19:19:28	Ever wondered if that goblin should've fled, or if the bandits would surrender? Does that berserking barbarian ever have a fear of death?? Well then this mechanical addition to your 4th Edition campaign will help. First of all the Morale system is simple...its a Save Throw...either you fight or you flee. If the target fails the Saving Throw it is under the Fleeing status. The Fleeing status is fairly simple and we will cover it later. First lets talk about when to make a Morale save. The target is Bloodied. A Leader is Defeated, Dead, or Flees. Half of the encounter party has been defeated, dead, or Flees. Now lets talk modifiers to Morale saves. The target gains a +2 if it is in a group. The target gains a +2 if there is a leader in the group. The target gains a +1 if it has previously made a Morale save and succeeded. If a PC is Bloodied the target gains a +2, or +4 if a PC is Dying/Dead. Now the effects of being under the Fleeing status. Must move away from the fight as quickly as possible. Movement is always and Run and all effects of Run are applicable. Must take a double movement if possible. If the creature cannot Flee it Surrenders. so tell me what you guys think??? Simple enough.
#2 tequila_sunrise Feb 11, 2010 20:12:08	I prefer to use DM fiat myself, but I like this system as an effective AI for DMs who want rules for this kind of thing. I'd suggest granting the monsters/NPCs a +2 bonus for every PC who is bloodied and a +4 for every PC who's KOed.
#3 heathan_v20 Feb 12, 2010 9:32:46	I also use DM fiat, but sometimes is just easier to let the dice roll. I wouldn't say a +4 bonus, after all its a save, but then again, if things are looking good why flee??? However I will avoide the "per blah blah blah" bonuses. Instead it will be a +2 if a PC is Bloodied OR +4 if a PC is Dying/Dead.
#4 babyj Feb 12, 2010 15:43:35	Good way to adjudicate the decision to flee by leaving it up to the dice; in other words: a good variant for DMs who don't want to just decide what they do. If this were instituted, it should also be noted that some monsters will be immune to such ideas, and will fight to the death regardless. And some will flee regardless. What about the XP reward for those that just bowed down or ran? half for those that have that keyword? or just hand out 3/4 XP when this is used since there is always that chance they will run or fight? (I saw the other thread on Coward)
#5 heathan_v20 Feb 12, 2010 18:22:10	Well unlike most DMs I disagree on the aspect that all XP is based on a kill. I say the opponent was defeated, a win is a win. So I'd give full XP. As for the some monster's won't flee, I say if it is immune to fear, it won't flee. However, intelligent creatures do realize that fighting to the bitter end, isn't always a good idea. Also if using the Coward keyword for a monster, I say they always take a -2 or -5 penalty to the save.
#6 Neutronium_Dragon Feb 12, 2010 19:10:03	> Movement is always and Run and all effects of Run are applicable. This would probably be going too far - if the creature is trying to get out alive then using Run even when it's a bad idea doesn't fit.
#7 babyj Feb 12, 2010 20:22:59	if the creature is trying to get out alive then using Run even when it's a bad idea doesn't fit. Well I would probably just rule that it moves until it can reasonably run, and since this is likely to happen to a creature in the midst of a battle with others who are still fighting, then it would in that situation get the chance to get away far enough after the first shift/move action. In the case of the remaining creature(s) running because they are Fleeing, those that cant get away would surrender should the PCs be a step behind it, since they are reasonably scared and know that tucking tail and running (perform a full run action) would mean getting hit in the process (provokes an OppAtk) and might end its life anyway.
#8 heathan_v20 Feb 12, 2010 22:09:11	Actually think fight or flight. In all honest combat is best left to instinct. Soldier's train constantly till their tactics are second nature. Their fight response is better then most because it is ingrained and well honed (atleast they hope so). Now flight is a diferent story. When the flight response kicks in, rationale goes out the window. This is why I chose to put the Run feature in there. There main purpose is to move as fast as they can away from their threat. Their tactics shift less from defense and attacking, and change to, "Everyone out of the pool!" mode. This is why in ancient battles when an enemy would flee the commanders would push their troops even harder then in a regular assualt. Because well, plain and simply the safest way to stab someone is, from behind ("SNEAK ATTACK!!!") Yes it doesn't seem logical, but that's what it is, an illogical fear of being wipe off the map (litterally). If its a tactical retreat, then that's not Fleeing...that's a sound judgement call.
#9 Kalani Feb 16, 2010 2:08:37	While I like your approach, I think it fails to account for the "orderly" retreat option. Personally, I feel that two morale saves should be required. On a first failed morale save in a given encounter, the NPC is Cowed (-2 morale penalty to attack & damage), and will attempt to retreat from combat in an orderly fashion (save ends retreat). Should a Cowed combatant fail a second morale save in the same encounter, they flee. Fleeing combatants cannot Shift or use Attack Powers, and must Run away from the triggering combat (taking double moves where possible). If the fleeing combatant has powers which can expedite their escape (Teleport, Invisible, Insubstantial, Fly, Burrow, etc), they will use them at their first opportunity. You can also give monsters different morale keywords such as the following: Fanatical - Monster never makes morale checks, and will fight to the death. Reckless - Monster gains +2 bonus on morale saves Coward - Monster suffers -2 penalty on morale saves Other than the above, I really like your suggestion and may implement it in order to help simulate the realism of combat, esp. during those times when I am having difficulty RPing the monsters morale for one reason or another.
#10 heathan_v20 Feb 16, 2010 15:45:11	I like your idea Kalani and I'm glad this helpped I'll work out some ideas for morale and try to incorperate yours. I do however want to have this as simple as possible. Remember Elites and Solos will get +2 or +5 bonuses to their morales.