more "realistic" critical hits - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

more "realistic" critical hits

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lady_ishtar
Jul 30, 2008 18:07:35 here is my take on more "realistic" critical hits, including long lasting effects. this is not about whether 4e needs to be more deadly or not, just about how balanced this system would be. comments and criticism are welcome.

all these conditions would affect monsters as well, except for #5. in this case a monster could suffer only 5 critical hits before becoming unconscious, assuming it would survive those.

Crippled conditions
1. Crippled leg: -2 Speed.
2. Vertigo: -2 to AC, Fort, Ref, Will.
3. Crippled arm: -2 to WEAPON attack and damage rolls.
4. Impaired vision: all targets not adjacent to you have concealment.
5. Gut wound: -2 total/unused healing surges.
6. Bleeding wound: if you take both a standard and a move action on the same turn you suffer 5 damage.
O. Unconscious.

All characters gain Adrenaline Surge as a daily power (see below)

Whenever you suffer a critical hit you gain a crippled condition. When you gain a crippled condition roll a d6 to determine the effect, if you already have that effect you gain next effect. If you take a critical hit wile you suffer all 6 cripple effects you become unconscious. (ex.: You suffer a critical hit and roll a 5, you suffer a Gut Wound. Next time you suffer a critical hit you roll a 3, and suffer Crippled Arm. Third time you are critted you roll a 5 again. since you are already suffering from a Gut Wound, you now suffer a Bleeding Wound. when you get critted 4th time, once again you roll a 5. since you are suffering from a Gut Wound you move to Bleeding Wound, but since you are suffering from that already, you now move to #1, Crippled Leg).

Recovering from cripple effects:
At the end of an extended rest make a saving throw against one cripple condition. You can make only one attempt at recovery each extended rest. See Heal and Endurance below.

Endurance:
• Fast recovery: make a DC 20 endurance check. If you succeed you gain a +2 bonus to a single cripple recovery save.

Heal:
Treat Injury
• Bind wounds: make a DC 20 Heal check to grant a +2 bonus to a single cripple effect save.
• Speed recovery: make a DC 20 Heal check, +1 per crippled condition you attempt to cure. If you succeed the character may make a saving throw for number of effects you succeeded curing. (ex.: DC 22 would allow for saves vs. 2 effects, DC 26 vs. 6 effects, and DC 27 vs. all effects.) Character suffers -1 cumulative penalty on each consecutive save (ex.: -1 on second save, -3 on the third save, etc.)

Adrenaline Surge
Character daily power
Immediate Action * personal
Requirement: you must be bloodied and suffer at least 3 Crippled effects. You must also spend a healing surge without regaining any hit points if you have healing surges left. If you do not have any healing surges left you will suffer an additional cripple effect at the end of your turn.
Effect: take a turn immediately. You cannot regain any hit points or spend your action point during this turn. you cannot end any negative conditions during this turn.
Special: you can spend a healing surge without regaining any hit points to ignore all penalties you suffer from cripple effects and enemy abilities.
#2
outlaw68
Jul 30, 2008 20:46:37 I use the critical hit charts form the old players option: combat and tactics book. They need a little modifying as far the terms it uses go... but it does make for more realistic and dangerous critical hits.
#3
Crimson_Concerto
Jul 30, 2008 21:17:39 Crit tables were a horrible idea back in 3.5, and 4E hasn't changed enough from 3.5 for crit tables to suddenly be a good idea. Why do you feel like you need them?
#4
lady_ishtar
Jul 30, 2008 21:31:50
Crit tables were a horrible idea back in 3.5, and 4E hasn't changed enough from 3.5 for crit tables to suddenly be a good idea. Why do you feel like you need them?

i like to punish my players
#5
Crimson_Concerto
Jul 30, 2008 21:42:45
i like to punish my players

Oh... Wow, I didn't think there were really such bad DMs who thought like that...
#6
danmarlok
Jul 30, 2008 21:46:15 The biggest issue I see is that players will over the course of normal adventuring probably never get free an clear unless they intentionally take days off adventuring to recover. It's likely for example that during a 3-5 encounter per 'day' they're like to get at least a few criticals. But can only heal one day.

It's also going to add bookeeping especially for NPC's and to some extent weaken Solo's I imagine. My thoughts there is that Solo's will undergo a lot more attacks hence more chances of critcals so they'll be debilitated by this at a greater rate.
#7
outlaw68
Jul 30, 2008 21:50:54
Crit tables were a horrible idea back in 3.5, and 4E hasn't changed enough from 3.5 for crit tables to suddenly be a good idea. Why do you feel like you need them?

A couple of my players asked for them. I have always enjoyed the element of danger it brings to a party. I enjoy seeing how somebody roleplays having a shattered knee (at least until i provide the magic for it to be healed)

I think the main reason my players asked for it is that they enjoy the grittier more dangerous feel it brings to combat, and i think they may even enjoy the descriptions i use as a sword goes tearing through flesh to bury itself deep into somebody's shoulder.

The charts i use actually don't have any great effect one the game unless a natural 20 is rolled, followed by a location roll, then the player has to role high once again to do an real extra damage past minor bleeding etc..
#8
lady_ishtar
Jul 30, 2008 22:08:38
Oh... Wow, I didn't think there were really such bad DMs who thought like that...

maybe im a bad DM, yet i always have to tell people that that my game is already full. i always figured if they didnt have fun they would leave. i guess i must be doing something right. and no, there is no lack of DMs im my area.

but in all seriousness, im looking for something to make the hit point system little more gritty, but not too hard to keep track of, and not too hard to recover from.
#9
glak2
Jul 30, 2008 22:15:13 critical hits have always been a great idea, in every edition. The best two campaigns that I have ever run were the two in which I used critical hit systems. That wasn't the only, or even a major reason why they were awesome, but they did add something. Critical hit systems are both light-hearted and gritty.

I read somewhere about using the disease rules for critical hits. I'll probably break them up by damage type and weapon group. Axes, Flails, Cold, Psychic, etc... OMG this is going to be awesome.
#10
Neutronium_Dragon
Jul 30, 2008 22:45:59 The primary problem with this is that while the monsters aren't going to have any long-term difficulties (since they're all dead at the end of the encounter), the players are going to be accumulating one effect after another because they are around for more than one scene. This makes it into something which penalizes the players much more than the opposition and is likely to push the game back towards "five minute workdays" where they go in for one fight and then leave until they've had enough extended rests to remove all of these disabling conditions.
#11
kuonji
Jul 31, 2008 10:39:08 While I'm not in favor of such a system one thing to consider is the Bleeding Wound condition and action points. Would, for example, taking two standard actions on my turn (via an action point) trigger the bleeding wound?
#12
hanexs
Jul 31, 2008 13:53:59 heres he I have been doing critical hits and fumbles On a 20, roll again, if it is above 10 you deal "extra crit damage".

We roll location (head, leg, feet, ect) and then I make up some condition based on that. If it is the head, maybe you are blinded until your next heal, if it is the feet you take -2 to your movement ect, if it your sword arm your weapon flies on the other side of the room.

Critical hits/fumbles make combat more interesting and fun, enough said.
#13
maulorn
Jul 31, 2008 14:58:05 Good House Rule

When a player's character suffers a critical hit you shoot the player with a paintball gun just so everyone is clear at how bad he got hurt.

"The goblin hit you so hard you felt it IRL..."
*poooft*
*Twap*
OWWW!
#14
soel_griffin
Jul 31, 2008 17:28:51 Personally toying with just having critical hits drop monsters to bloodied (or crit damage, whatever is greater,) and bloodied monsters that are critically hit reduced to 0 hp.

Mainly influenced by the slog-fests reported of combat vs solo monsters, but seems like a cool idea to try out overall.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lady_ishtar Jul 30, 2008 18:07:35	here is my take on more "realistic" critical hits, including long lasting effects. this is not about whether 4e needs to be more deadly or not, just about how balanced this system would be. comments and criticism are welcome. all these conditions would affect monsters as well, except for #5. in this case a monster could suffer only 5 critical hits before becoming unconscious, assuming it would survive those. Crippled conditions 1. Crippled leg: -2 Speed. 2. Vertigo: -2 to AC, Fort, Ref, Will. 3. Crippled arm: -2 to WEAPON attack and damage rolls. 4. Impaired vision: all targets not adjacent to you have concealment. 5. Gut wound: -2 total/unused healing surges. 6. Bleeding wound: if you take both a standard and a move action on the same turn you suffer 5 damage. O. Unconscious. All characters gain Adrenaline Surge as a daily power (see below) Whenever you suffer a critical hit you gain a crippled condition. When you gain a crippled condition roll a d6 to determine the effect, if you already have that effect you gain next effect. If you take a critical hit wile you suffer all 6 cripple effects you become unconscious. (ex.: You suffer a critical hit and roll a 5, you suffer a Gut Wound. Next time you suffer a critical hit you roll a 3, and suffer Crippled Arm. Third time you are critted you roll a 5 again. since you are already suffering from a Gut Wound, you now suffer a Bleeding Wound. when you get critted 4th time, once again you roll a 5. since you are suffering from a Gut Wound you move to Bleeding Wound, but since you are suffering from that already, you now move to #1, Crippled Leg). Recovering from cripple effects: At the end of an extended rest make a saving throw against one cripple condition. You can make only one attempt at recovery each extended rest. See Heal and Endurance below. Endurance: • Fast recovery: make a DC 20 endurance check. If you succeed you gain a +2 bonus to a single cripple recovery save. Heal: Treat Injury • Bind wounds: make a DC 20 Heal check to grant a +2 bonus to a single cripple effect save. • Speed recovery: make a DC 20 Heal check, +1 per crippled condition you attempt to cure. If you succeed the character may make a saving throw for number of effects you succeeded curing. (ex.: DC 22 would allow for saves vs. 2 effects, DC 26 vs. 6 effects, and DC 27 vs. all effects.) Character suffers -1 cumulative penalty on each consecutive save (ex.: -1 on second save, -3 on the third save, etc.) Adrenaline Surge Character daily power *Immediate Action personal Requirement: you must be bloodied and suffer at least 3 Crippled effects. You must also spend a healing surge without regaining any hit points if you have healing surges left. If you do not have any healing surges left you will suffer an additional cripple effect at the end of your turn. Effect: take a turn immediately. You cannot regain any hit points or spend your action point during this turn. you cannot end any negative conditions during this turn. Special:** you can spend a healing surge without regaining any hit points to ignore all penalties you suffer from cripple effects and enemy abilities.
#2 outlaw68 Jul 30, 2008 20:46:37	I use the critical hit charts form the old players option: combat and tactics book. They need a little modifying as far the terms it uses go... but it does make for more realistic and dangerous critical hits.
#3 Crimson_Concerto Jul 30, 2008 21:17:39	Crit tables were a horrible idea back in 3.5, and 4E hasn't changed enough from 3.5 for crit tables to suddenly be a good idea. Why do you feel like you need them?
#4 lady_ishtar Jul 30, 2008 21:31:50	Crit tables were a horrible idea back in 3.5, and 4E hasn't changed enough from 3.5 for crit tables to suddenly be a good idea. Why do you feel like you need them? i like to punish my players
#5 Crimson_Concerto Jul 30, 2008 21:42:45	i like to punish my players Oh... Wow, I didn't think there were really such bad DMs who thought like that...
#6 danmarlok Jul 30, 2008 21:46:15	The biggest issue I see is that players will over the course of normal adventuring probably never get free an clear unless they intentionally take days off adventuring to recover. It's likely for example that during a 3-5 encounter per 'day' they're like to get at least a few criticals. But can only heal one day. It's also going to add bookeeping especially for NPC's and to some extent weaken Solo's I imagine. My thoughts there is that Solo's will undergo a lot more attacks hence more chances of critcals so they'll be debilitated by this at a greater rate.
#7 outlaw68 Jul 30, 2008 21:50:54	Crit tables were a horrible idea back in 3.5, and 4E hasn't changed enough from 3.5 for crit tables to suddenly be a good idea. Why do you feel like you need them? A couple of my players asked for them. I have always enjoyed the element of danger it brings to a party. I enjoy seeing how somebody roleplays having a shattered knee (at least until i provide the magic for it to be healed) I think the main reason my players asked for it is that they enjoy the grittier more dangerous feel it brings to combat, and i think they may even enjoy the descriptions i use as a sword goes tearing through flesh to bury itself deep into somebody's shoulder. The charts i use actually don't have any great effect one the game unless a natural 20 is rolled, followed by a location roll, then the player has to role high once again to do an real extra damage past minor bleeding etc..
#8 lady_ishtar Jul 30, 2008 22:08:38	Oh... Wow, I didn't think there were really such bad DMs who thought like that... maybe im a bad DM, yet i always have to tell people that that my game is already full. i always figured if they didnt have fun they would leave. i guess i must be doing something right. and no, there is no lack of DMs im my area. but in all seriousness, im looking for something to make the hit point system little more gritty, but not too hard to keep track of, and not too hard to recover from.
#9 glak2 Jul 30, 2008 22:15:13	critical hits have always been a great idea, in every edition. The best two campaigns that I have ever run were the two in which I used critical hit systems. That wasn't the only, or even a major reason why they were awesome, but they did add something. Critical hit systems are both light-hearted and gritty. I read somewhere about using the disease rules for critical hits. I'll probably break them up by damage type and weapon group. Axes, Flails, Cold, Psychic, etc... OMG this is going to be awesome.
#10 Neutronium_Dragon Jul 30, 2008 22:45:59	The primary problem with this is that while the monsters aren't going to have any long-term difficulties (since they're all dead at the end of the encounter), the players are going to be accumulating one effect after another because they are around for more than one scene. This makes it into something which penalizes the players much more than the opposition and is likely to push the game back towards "five minute workdays" where they go in for one fight and then leave until they've had enough extended rests to remove all of these disabling conditions.
#11 kuonji Jul 31, 2008 10:39:08	While I'm not in favor of such a system one thing to consider is the Bleeding Wound condition and action points. Would, for example, taking two standard actions on my turn (via an action point) trigger the bleeding wound?
#12 hanexs Jul 31, 2008 13:53:59	heres he I have been doing critical hits and fumbles On a 20, roll again, if it is above 10 you deal "extra crit damage". We roll location (head, leg, feet, ect) and then I make up some condition based on that. If it is the head, maybe you are blinded until your next heal, if it is the feet you take -2 to your movement ect, if it your sword arm your weapon flies on the other side of the room. Critical hits/fumbles make combat more interesting and fun, enough said.
#13 maulorn Jul 31, 2008 14:58:05	Good House Rule When a player's character suffers a critical hit you shoot the player with a paintball gun just so everyone is clear at how bad he got hurt. "The goblin hit you so hard you felt it IRL..." poooft Twap OWWW!
#14 soel_griffin Jul 31, 2008 17:28:51	Personally toying with just having critical hits drop monsters to bloodied (or crit damage, whatever is greater,) and bloodied monsters that are critically hit reduced to 0 hp. Mainly influenced by the slog-fests reported of combat vs solo monsters, but seems like a cool idea to try out overall.