Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Bill4747 Oct 25, 2007 10:29:17	Who will be the better villain in 4E? Lord Soth, or Vecna? Right now Vecna is more powerfull but Lord Soth is a bit cooler. Will that change in 4E?
#2 Kathorus Oct 25, 2007 12:09:34	I agree, Lord Soth is cooler, hence he makes a better villian regardless of power.
#3 salla Oct 25, 2007 13:18:02	I'm going to say Vecna, because I've never heard of this Soth guy.
#4 Bill4747 Oct 25, 2007 14:21:50	Well, I have a fondness for both. Soth was a knight that was tasked to go on a quest that was one last chance to redeem the mortals in the eyes of the gods. He got distracted and abandoned the quest to go beat up his wife for cheating on him. Then the Gods rained doom down upon the world, and its all Soth's fault. He became a death knight, and is just not a nice man. Any Dragonlance fans can correct me if my memory is too badly flawed here. The book 'Knight of the Black Rose' does a wonderfull job portraying Soth. Vecna is the most gifted mage ever to live, and became a lich, and then a god, cheating both death, and his own mortality. He even came within a hair's breadth of unseating the Greyhawk pantheon of deities to become the only greater god. Sooo close, yet soo far. Also not a very nice man. People feared to speak his name aloud, instead calling him the 'Whispered One" And that was before he became a god. Two of my favorite villains. I just found a post that cooincidentaly had a picture of both Soth and Vecna! here it is. Don't forget about the Lord Soth series. But he is no longer part of Ravenloft, in fact he no longer is part of any setting. One big figure that I wonder if the Chained God Vecna is still trapped there.
#5 tiwaztyrsfist Oct 25, 2007 15:46:50	Isn't Soth sort of out of the running for 'Villian'? I thought he was redemed, and that was how he got out of Ravenloft. I'm fairly certain of that... But I could be wrong.
#6 Kathorus Oct 25, 2007 19:10:43	Isn't Soth sort of out of the running for 'Villian'? I thought he was redemed, and that was how he got out of Ravenloft. I'm fairly certain of that... But I could be wrong. Well that would certainly end this discussion. I haven't actually read anything about Soth since "Knight of the Black Rose" was first published. If he is redeemed, it would be a shame, he was a great villain!
#7 daijaga Oct 25, 2007 21:17:50	I think Vecna is the one whose out of the running. As I understand it, I'm pretty sure the hand-less-one is a confirmed deity in Core 4e. Actaully, I dunno if that makes him a worse or better BBEG...
#8 Bill4747 Oct 26, 2007 9:03:06	First thing I would do, if I became a GOD? Heal my severed hand and missing eye! maybe Vecna is not so smart after all.....or is it all a cunning plan to appear wounded and weak?
#9 heavensagent Oct 26, 2007 11:40:34	First thing I would do, if I became a GOD? Heal my severed hand and missing eye! maybe Vecna is not so smart after all.....or is it all a cunning plan to appear wounded and weak? He just can't find anything else the right size to prop up the coffee table.
#10 gwenio Oct 26, 2007 12:45:15	Or maybe they had special enchantments on them giving him power but making it so he has to get the originals and stick them on.
#11 somaticon Oct 26, 2007 19:33:25	I would just like to point out that the hand and eye of vecna where powerful artifacts in AD&D if you removed one of your own you could attach them and gain considerable power with a cost however:D. Now i'm not entirely sure but i think I saw them in one of the current editions books just cant remember which :embarrass, So on that point I'd have to say that Vecna wins hands down pardon the pun as he had to major artifacts made from his missing apendages whereas Soth became a pawn of Stradd's for a while.
#12 heavensagent Oct 26, 2007 21:12:59	Now i'm not entirely sure but i think I saw them in one of the current editions books just cant remember which That would be the DMG. ;) EDIT: And based on David Noonan's most recent blog, at least the Eye will be an initial part of 4E.
#13 lilithsthrall Oct 27, 2007 8:25:36	Vecna is the most gifted mage ever to live, Isn't he in competition with Zagyg for that distinction?
#14 valdrax Oct 27, 2007 15:41:25	First thing I would do, if I became a GOD? Heal my severed hand and missing eye! maybe Vecna is not so smart after all.....or is it all a cunning plan to appear wounded and weak? Maimed deities are not without mythological precedent. Odin, arguably the most powerful deity in the Norse pantheon, has only one eye. He tore the other out and sacrificed it at Mimir's spring to gain wisdom. Tyr, from the same pantheon is without a hand because he placed his hand in the mouth of Fenrir to help trick the wolf so that he could be bound. Being a deity, especially in a polytheistic world, does not mean being omnipotent. Personally, I vote Vecna mostly because I've never been a big fan of Dragonlance.
#15 lobsopdoy Oct 28, 2007 15:50:05	I think I read somewhere that Vecna could get his arm and eye back, but he enjoys having them out in the world spreading evil too much.
#16 heavensagent Oct 28, 2007 16:38:42	I think I read somewhere that Vecna could get his arm and eye back, but he enjoys having them out in the world spreading evil too much. It would make sense. Besides, it makes him a more interesting guest at parties: "Nobody move, my eye's gone! It must have fallen out here somewhere. . ." "I'd give you a hand, but I don't have one to spare." "Watch me balance the bowl of salsa in my eye socket."
#17 kalstrand Oct 31, 2007 15:05:29	Its been awhile since I read the novels but if I remember correctly Soth returned to Krynn at the end of Spectre of the Black Rose. I don't know that it specifically states Soth is gone but in the War of Souls Trilogy it was made to appear that Soth was destroyed.
#18 lordofnightmares_dup Oct 31, 2007 16:09:06	Isn't Soth sort of out of the running for 'Villian'? I thought he was redemed, and that was how he got out of Ravenloft. I'm fairly certain of that... But I could be wrong. Redeemed, dead and in a good afterlife. But there is always a way deux-ex-machina that away.
#19 valdrax Oct 31, 2007 22:40:33	Redeemed, dead and in a good afterlife. But there is always a way deux-ex-machina that away. Meh. He's either in Dragonlance or in Ravenloft, and neither of those properties were being published by WotC under 3e for the most part, so I think he's kind of out of the running in more ways than one.
#20 lordofnightmares_dup Oct 31, 2007 22:47:52	I said it was possible, not a good idea. I rather like him dead. I do not think we need a canon BBEG.
#21 CCS Nov 07, 2007 12:20:53	Isn't Soth sort of out of the running for 'Villian'? I thought he was redemed, and that was how he got out of Ravenloft. I'm fairly certain of that... But I could be wrong. Only if you're one of those who insists on playing games set in the current "moment" & who treats everything found in the novels as cannon. Sorry, Lord Soth will forever be a villian to many of us.
#22 askara Jun 11, 2008 14:34:53	Soth was freed from his curse during the War of Souls. Mina visited him and offered him the command of Takhisis' spirit troops, and he refused, telling her how it had been a mistake to leave him alone all those years to reflect on what he had done. Mina threatens him with death, and Soth answers that there is no horror in death, only peace. So Mina kills him, and he goes on to join his wife -he claims she too has forgiven him now-.
#23 tiwaztyrsfist Jun 11, 2008 17:05:32	So, I assume that Vecna can't regrow the Eye and Hand because he was missing them when he ascended to god-hood. If you hacked off his other hand, or put out his other eye, he could probably fix those instantly, but because he was missing those bits when he became a god, it's part of his godhood. Other classic examples of gods missing body parts, Osiris. When Seth killed and dismembered him, his 'manhod' was lost. I think a bird stole it, but I forget exactly. Anyway, the point was, Osiris, God of the Dead, was missing his hoo-haa, because they couldn't find it when they put him back together... It all tied into why power passed to the pharoh's heir when the pharoh died, despite the fact that the pharoh was still, technically, alive in a different way, and a god.