Thanks!
I think it's a question at this point of who's still in the office up there at WotC HQ (or perhaps, who's able to get to the office, what with all the snow they're having in the Northwest) and therefore when it will get uploaded. If it can't be uploaded until after the holidays at this point, I'm hoping that Chris T. will allow the Event Managers of the various regions to have access to the file so that they can distribute it to the folks in their regions who might want to play it over the holidays. As soon as I know anything, I'll post about it.
If it can't be uploaded until after the holidays at this point, I'm hoping that Chris T. will allow the Event Managers of the various regions to have access to the file so that they can distribute it to the folks in their regions who might want to play it over the holidays.
I don't want to sound rude, but... really? The mod is finished and the file is written and ready for distribution and the major holdup is that nobody's pushed the upload button?
I (and many of my players) have been waiting for CORE1-4 for quite some time. We figured there was something very wrong with the mod and it needed to be edited (or entirely rewritten) for content, balance, or some other game issue. It's very disappointing to hear that it's finished and the only problem is just that nobody's bothered to make it available for download.
As an organizer who spends MANY hours a week organizing events and uploading data for the 5-8 tables I host each week, I just don't understand that... Especially considering that everything I do is on a voluntary basis on top of being a full-time student and working.
Isn't it part of someone's job to upload these and make sure they're available at a reasonable date?
I (and many of my players) have been waiting for CORE1-4 for quite some time. We figured there was something very wrong with the mod and it needed to be edited (or entirely rewritten) for content, balance, or some other game issue. It's very disappointing to hear that it's finished and the only problem is just that nobody's bothered to make it available for download.
Easy there. You are correct in assuming that something was very wrong with the mod, and it needed to be largely rewritten and re-edited, which it was. That took a lot longer than I would have liked, and between people's vacation schedules and the unexpected heavy snowfall that's been happening in Seattle, it may or may not get uploaded immediately depending on whether or not there is someone in the office who is capable of making that happen. Their offices have been closed several times in the last week because of inclement weather. In the worst-case scenario, I imagine it will get uploaded in early January when the WotC staff gets back from the holidays. But I also know Chris is doing everything he can to get it uploaded sooner.
If you want to yell at someone, you are welcome to yell at me, since the problems with the adventure being delayed all can be laid at my feet in one form or another. HQ can't release an adventure that isn't ready to be released. Ultimately, that quality control is to the benefit of players and organizers like you. I would rather have you be unhappy because you got the adventure late than to be unhappy because you got the adventure on time and it was crap. I will gladly fall on my sword and agree that if I had done a better job in the first place, the adventure would not have had to be rewritten and would have come out on time, but we are where we are.
There are currently three adapted adventures, 24 regional adventures, and four other core adventures available from the ordering system. If you've already played all of those and the possible lack of having CORE1-4 is going to wreck your gaming plans for the holidays, then I apologize, but there isn't anything that can be done that isn't already being done to try and rectify the situation. As soon as it can be made available, it will be made available.
I will gladly fall on my sword and agree that if I had done a better job in the first place, the adventure would not have had to be rewritten and would have come out on time, but we are where we are.
Sean, this is unacceptable. The global admin position is a public position and heads gotta roll. I expect to see your resignation on my desk first thing in the morning.
(;) just in case people are that gullible)
Sean, this is unacceptable. The global admin position is a public position and heads gotta roll. I expect to see your resignation on my desk first thing in the morning.
[Cue sound of body sliding down sword blade]
Well, I do appreciate the humor, and in the grand scheme of things I feel pretty comfortable that this delay will not irrevocably ruin anyone's life -- but at the same time, I don't want to dismiss or invalidate people's concerns about late delivery of adventures. When we publish a release schedule, we have to understand that people are going to make plans based on that release schedule and if things don't come out when we said they were going to come out, it screws up those plans and makes everybody involved with the campaign look bad. It's critically important for us to set and maintain high standards in this regard. The last thing anyone wants is for people to view the published release schedule as "more like guidelines, really." If that were the case it would arguably be better not to have a release schedule at all.
All I can say is that we really are doing everything we can, and I do sincerely regret that we did not hit the Q4 2008 release schedule with 100% accuracy (delays of a few days are perhaps within the acceptable margin of error, but delays of the magnitude that CORE1-4 has experienced aren't). That's not to say that the release schedule will always be absolutely accurate from the moment it is chiseled onto stone tablets and carried down from the mountain. No one can promise that, and I'm not promising it now. There will always be turmoil and obstacles and last-minute real-life emergencies, but it's important to our collective and individual credibility to deliver what we say we're going to deliver, when we say we're going to deliver it, or at least provide updates in a timely fashion when we know we're not going to be able to uphold our previous commitments. And I can assure you that our collective and individual credibility is important to each and every one of us on the campaign staff, from Chris Tulach on down. (In fact, I'd be willing to bet it's more important to Chris than it is to anyone else, since "RPGA Content Manager" isn't just his hobby, it's his full-time job.)
I hope folks will understand that when I say "everything that can possibly be done is being done," it doesn't also mean "and shame on you for asking." In other words, I am attempting to explain the situation without making excuses for the situation. If the adventure had come out when it was supposed to come out, then people wouldn't be asking where it is right now. Problem solved. This is only a game, and people shouldn't treat it like a matter of life and death, but at the same time, players and event organizers give up their real time and their real money to participate, which is time and money that they certainly could have spent on something else, and that is deserving of respect and consideration in the same way that the time and effort put in by the authors and administrators and other volunteers is deserving of respect and consideration.
With that said, I must state my utter disappointment with the lack of communication. There is so much we do not know, that we should. Next release schedule and what the plan is for reward cards come quickly to mind.
Now I know that the buck has been passed to WOTC and the web gnomes. And any attempt raise questions about Chris Tulach will cause many people to come swiftly to his defense. Yet there seems to be other ways to disseminate information. I seem to remember stealth rules being changed practically on the eave of Gencon with the information passing down through non-official sources. So why the lack of communication? Why is pertinent information so difficult to come by?
For those who are waiting on the release of this adventure, I just spoke with Chris Tulach, who let me know that CORE1-4 won't be up on the ordering site until the first full week of January (i.e. sometime between January 5th and January 9th, 2009). At this point there is no reason to hope or expect that the adventure can be made available any sooner than that.
Again, I apologize to anyone whose planned gaming over the next couple of weeks is affected by this. I do think you will enjoy the adventure when you finally get to play it, though.
And any attempt raise questions about Chris Tulach will cause many people to come swiftly to his defense.
As someone else who is frustrated by the lack of transparency at the RPGA, I find it kind of hard to either defend or criticize Chris Tulach or the other RPGA staff. While they would seem the obvious people to go to with concerns, it's obvious that they have almost no actual control over the parts of the organization that have the biggest day-to-day impact on the players. While it would be nice if one day they would announce who is in charge of all the back-end decisions that cause these problems, for now we just need to hope they are passing our concerns up the pipe.
I think Chris Tulach's challenge though is less about his personal decisions or his advocacy to his bosses or R&D or the story team, but more about his workload. IMHO WotC has a history of overloading work on the RPGA Content Manager.
If you want to communicate your message, come to DDXP and you can speak directly to WotC staff about your concerns.
Keith
I am an organizer for our local club and have been frustrated by several things with the release schedule. Late releases, changes to the schedule, the CORE 1-4 mess. All these things were frustrating, but I am willing to forgive the admins and cut them some slack. I do hope they learn from mistakes and strive to do better. I know for example that our club no works on a release delay. WE do not schedule any adventures until 1 month after its listed release date. This helps smooth out any hiccups.
With that said, I must state my utter disappointment with the lack of communication. There is so much we do not know, that we should. Next release schedule and what the plan is for reward cards come quickly to mind.
Now I know that the buck has been passed to WOTC and the web gnomes. And any attempt raise questions about Chris Tulach will cause many people to come swiftly to his defense. Yet there seems to be other ways to disseminate information. I seem to remember stealth rules being changed practically on the eave of Gencon with the information passing down through non-official sources. So why the lack of communication? Why is pertinent information so difficult to come by?
Not real sure what your problem is with it not being released yet. Is it because you have all played every module available already and this is the only one you have not played? Or are you trying to run them in some kind of order?
With the ability to replay modules there should be plenty of opportunities to play and run modules. I know that each module that has been released in the 1st set of modules has been played at least twice in our group.
Not real sure what your problem is with it not being released yet.
Well for one it is a matter of courtesy for the players who look to me as an organizer. We are a club of people who lead busy lives and we try to schedule our games 2-3 months in advance. This allows people to plan and find time to game. When an adventure never shows up or is late, it can lead to rescheduling, which can cause chaos.
As I said previously, we have taken steps to avoid some of these problems. It is just unfortunate that we have learned not to trust the release schedule. Also keep in mind that in the gaming industry, new content is king. So no, we have not completely tapped out the supply of current modules, but we have a bunch of players at level 8 and just chomping at the bit to sign up for level 7-10 adventures.
I guess what I am saying is that Organized Play seems to be anything but.
IMHO WotC has a history of overloading work on the RPGA Content Manager.
To be fair, I do not know Chris or what challenges he faces in his normal workday. I can see many positive things in the RPGA that must be linked to him. My point is that when the Content is not forthcoming, it should be no surprise when people start to ask the Content Manager questions.
Well for one it is a matter of courtesy for the players who look to me as an organizer. We are a club of people who lead busy lives and we try to schedule our games 2-3 months in advance. This allows people to plan and find time to game. When an adventure never shows up or is late, it can lead to rescheduling, which can cause chaos.
As I said previously, we have taken steps to avoid some of these problems. It is just unfortunate that we have learned not to trust the release schedule. Also keep in mind that in the gaming industry, new content is king. So no, we have not completely tapped out the supply of current modules, but we have a bunch of players at level 8 and just chomping at the bit to sign up for level 7-10 adventures.
I guess what I am saying is that Organized Play seems to be anything but.
To be fair, I do not know Chris or what challenges he faces in his normal workday. I can see many positive things in the RPGA that must be linked to him. My point is that when the Content is not forthcoming, it should be no surprise when people start to ask the Content Manager questions.
I can't say I fully understand the frustration this may have caused however I can empathize with it based on what you have written. I do hope that this is the only delay we experience however one other thing that we forget is that WotC is a company...a company owned by Hasbro. Some of the logistics involved in such a delay could be things we can not see, such as employees needing to finish taking vacation days to make sure they are accounted for (instead of working which can cause logistics problems for the parent company), and various other non-weather related things. Things like this often happen around the end of the year with many companies from year to year...unfortunately.
I also applaud you for taking the time to organize events with what you have going on in "'real life". I have thought about organizing events myself (or assisting with others here who do) and I'm glad that WotC has these types of events for us to utilize.
Easy there. You are correct in assuming that something was very wrong with the mod, and it needed to be largely rewritten and re-edited, which it was. That took a lot longer than I would have liked, and between people's vacation schedules and the unexpected heavy snowfall that's been happening in Seattle, it may or may not get uploaded immediately depending on whether or not there is someone in the office who is capable of making that happen. Their offices have been closed several times in the last week because of inclement weather. In the worst-case scenario, I imagine it will get uploaded in early January when the WotC staff gets back from the holidays. But I also know Chris is doing everything he can to get it uploaded sooner.
If you want to yell at someone, you are welcome to yell at me, since the problems with the adventure being delayed all can be laid at my feet in one form or another. HQ can't release an adventure that isn't ready to be released. Ultimately, that quality control is to the benefit of players and organizers like you. I would rather have you be unhappy because you got the adventure late than to be unhappy because you got the adventure on time and it was crap. I will gladly fall on my sword and agree that if I had done a better job in the first place, the adventure would not have had to be rewritten and would have come out on time, but we are where we are.
There are currently three adapted adventures, 24 regional adventures, and four other core adventures available from the ordering system. If you've already played all of those and the possible lack of having CORE1-4 is going to wreck your gaming plans for the holidays, then I apologize, but there isn't anything that can be done that isn't already being done to try and rectify the situation. As soon as it can be made available, it will be made available.
Why was it written poorly in the first place? That in itself should not have happened.
I can't say I fully understand the frustration this may have caused however I can empathize with it based on what you have written. I do hope that this is the only delay we experience however one other thing that we forget is that WotC is a company...a company owned by Hasbro. Some of the logistics involved in such a delay could be things we can not see, such as employees needing to finish taking vacation days to make sure they are accounted for (instead of working which can cause logistics problems for the parent company), and various other non-weather related things. Things like this often happen around the end of the year with many companies from year to year...unfortunately.
I also applaud you for taking the time to organize events with what you have going on in "'real life". I have thought about organizing events myself (or assisting with others here who do) and I'm glad that WotC has these types of events for us to utilize.
Seems that delays and lack of transparency is par for the course with WoTC. Take the "Game Table" and DDi fiasco for example. Didn't they just get done canning everyone that was keeping us informed about those subjects. I wonder who might be next?
Will this be tied into CORE 1-3 and it's story rewards at all? I'm just curious. One of my characters played CORE 1-3 and got that second story reward...and with where CORE 1-4 is I'm rather curious as to what will happen next.
Yes, CORE1-4 does give you the opportunity to follow up on the story object you got at the end of CORE1-3. The plots of the two adventures are not really directly connected, however. CORE1-4 and CORE1-7 are much more tightly connected in terms of their storyline. It's definitely preferable to play CORE1-4 before playing CORE1-7 (which premieres at Winter Fantasy) if possible.
Why was it written poorly in the first place? That in itself should not have happened.
You're kidding, right? If it were possible to know *ahead of time* that something wasn't going to turn out well, then sure, the person with that advance knowledge of the future would probably go in a different direction.
Sadly, the only form of 20/20 time-tunneling vision is hindsight.
So no, we have not completely tapped out the supply of current modules, but we have a bunch of players at level 8 and just chomping at the bit to sign up for level 7-10 adventures.
Just a note, CORE1-4 is for levels 4-7. So if you are waiting on that particular adventure to satisfy the desires of your players to play their 8th-level characters, I'm afraid you will get no satisfaction from it even when it does get released.
Fortunately, Q1 2009 is dedicated to the 7-10 level band, so there should be plenty of modules coming out starting in January to satisfy your crew. But there was never a module anywhere on the release schedule that was going to support 8th-level characters prior to January 2009.
Yes, CORE1-4 does give you the opportunity to follow up on the story object you got at the end of CORE1-3. The plots of the two adventures are not really directly connected, however. CORE1-4 and CORE1-7 are much more tightly connected in terms of their storyline. It's definitely preferable to play CORE1-4 before playing CORE1-7 (which premieres at Winter Fantasy) if possible.
Oh ok cool. Yeah at the end of CORE 1-3 when the DM described what was happening I was thinking to myself;...
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"Oh GREAT! We're lucky to survive what we just went through and -now- we have to deal with Wizards from Amn...one the open seas???" That definitely lead to some tense moments.
Why was it written poorly in the first place? That in itself should not have happened.
While I would tend to agree I have a feeling that some of these mods were written (and possibly approved) before the sourcebooks we players use were released. Some things could have changed by the time the sourcebooks were printed that may have conflicted or "just didn't seem to fit" between the mod and the sourcebook (or were missing descriptive text that could help describe something or make it clearer). This is the feeling I got after playing DALE 1-2 and got the description of the Zhents from the DM. The Zhents are my 2nd favorite group of villains (The Church of Bane being my first) and some of the information given to me just seemed hard to get used to as I'm not quite used to 4th edition yet (mainly with storylines, background info, etc).
Hopefully this has been caught or seen to prevent from happening in the future.
Just a note, CORE1-4 is for levels 4-7. So if you are waiting on that particular adventure to satisfy the desires of your players to play their 8th-level characters, I'm afraid you will get no satisfaction from it even when it does get released.
Fortunately, Q1 2009 is dedicated to the 7-10 level band, so there should be plenty of modules coming out starting in January to satisfy your crew. But there was never a module anywhere on the release schedule that was going to support 8th-level characters prior to January 2009.
I think you are misunderstanding. I am not frustrated specifically with CORE 1-4, but rather the unreliability with the release schedule altogether. CORE 1-4 just happens to be the worst offender so far.
I also applaud you for taking the time to organize events with what you have going on in "'real life". I have thought about organizing events myself (or assisting with others here who do) and I'm glad that WotC has these types of events for us to utilize.
Bear in mind I was not talking about me specifically, but the club I belong to as a whole. I am fortunate that I have plenty of time at work to devote to club business and LFR in general. But the truth is that most people have very busy lives. Gaming is hobby that is often forced to the bottom of ones priority list. During LG our club had one weekly gaming slot (1-2 tables) that essentially entailed "Show up and see what we can play." This lead to people not getting to play or not getting any adventures they wanted. Interest in LG waned, due to lack of interest. It does not take but a few times of showing up and not getting a place at a table before people stop showing up. We, as a club, wanted to find a remedy for this problem. Scheduling was identified as the key. Now with LFR our club was three weekly gaming slots with 6-8 tables. Interest is increasing, and people are happier. Now people can look ahead at the schedule and find tables that fit their preference. (Thank you Warhorn)
So yes, it is frustrating to have three months of scheduling comprising nearly 100 tables thrown out of wack when adventures never show up.
As I said before, I am willing to cut people some slack and I am not trying to make a big deal of this. Consider this more of a grumble.
Not real sure what your problem is with it not being released yet. Is it because you have all played every module available already and this is the only one you have not played? Or are you trying to run them in some kind of order?
Although my group and I have been anxiously awaiting the mod, my frustration isn't really over the fact that it hasn't been released yet. Rather, after reading Sean's initial reply, I was deeply upset at the reason it hadn't released.
I had been assuming a rewrite was to blame, but Sean's explanation made it seem to me like we'd been waiting this whole time for someone at WotC to upload the mod and they just hadn't gotten around to it for the past two months. That would be wholly unacceptable.
After reading his follow-up posts and realizing that the majority of the delay was due to a rewrite and, assuming, the failure to upload is just something that sprung up right around everyone's winter vacation; I am slightly less perturbed by the situation.
Still, I would be quite disappointed if I didn't have the chance to play CORE1-4 before DDXP. As hard as it is, I try to keep some continuity in my character's storyline. I'd really like to pursue the storyline w/ Amn started in CORE1-3, but I've got to be level 7 or less to play CORE1-4 and 7 or higher to play at DDXP.
Yes, CORE1-4 does give you the opportunity to follow up on the story object you got at the end of CORE1-3. The plots of the two adventures are not really directly connected, however. CORE1-4 and CORE1-7 are much more tightly connected in terms of their storyline. It's definitely preferable to play CORE1-4 before playing CORE1-7 (which premieres at Winter Fantasy) if possible.
Ah, I was just going to ask that. Will we see Glimnock return in either adventure? :D
Sean Molley has already told everyone that CORE1-4 had some big problems, which unfortunately were not recognized early in the review process but apparently only at the last review. I know Sean feels bad about this and has accepted responsibility.
As a Writing Director, I have thought about the possibility that we might write an adventure that when WotC does the final review, is sent back from massive, emergency rework, perhaps due to a miscommunication or a misunderstanding. The process is set up to try to ensure that does not happen, but the possibility exists.
Keith
The process is set up to try to ensure that does not happen, but the possibility exists.
Keith
The more transparent the process and the status of things are the better it is for the community.
This seems to be an almost universal truth for Living Campaigns and the more it can be embraced the better imho.
-James
Can we get an update on Core 1-4. The new year has passed and I still do not see it.
I'm surprised it isn't in the ordering system yet.
A little birdy tells me, however, that the admins have started to receive their copies. This is usually indicative that the module in question will be going live "soon".
If you and your group are chomping at the bit to play this mod, contact your Region's Event Manager and ask them for a copy. You can always sanction and report it afterward.
It's listed as a one point module for some reason. Core 1-5 is a 4 point module. Are the points going down from here on or is that a mistake?
Points are going down. All modules will be worth 1 point, and that point only for DMs, now.
Player rewards are gone; DM rewards is the wave of the future. DMs earn rewards for running 5 modules in a 6 month period.
The rewards cards you are used to are now going to be convention giveaways, and available, twice-a-year, as PDF downloads to players.
Full details are given at the site of the former player rewards write-up.
Well, I'm certainly glad that CORE1-4 is available for ordering. Now that folks can get their hands on it, if anybody has any feedback for me, don't hesitate to post (with appropriate spoiler tags) or PM / e-mail me. I had to write it in a bit of a hurry, as folks might have surmised from the earlier discussion, but I am really happy with how it turned out. I've already noticed a few annoying little mistakes that slipped into the final version, but there doesn't seem to be anything that would actually cause a problem during the game.
Also, in case anyone didn't catch this fact from the earlier discussion, if you are planning on playing CORE1-7 ("Sovereign of the Mines") at DDXP, it would be preferable for you to play CORE1-4 first. You don't absolutely have to do this, of course, but the story of CORE1-7 is largely set up by the events of CORE1-4. If your characters are already 8th level, meaning they can't play CORE1-4 (which is a levels 4-7 adventure) then I apologize in advance for the discontinuity, but I hope that there aren't too many people in that situation.
Will we see Glimnock return in either adventure? :D
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Alas and alack, everyone's favorite gnome (if indeed the words "favorite" and "gnome" may be placed in such proximity to one another) does not make an appearance in either CORE1-4 or CORE1-7.
I definitely hope that you will see Glimnock return; I have a number of ideas for future adventures involving the fate of Lantan and the lost relics of Gond Wonderbringer. And I know I am not alone in enjoying the occasional adventure that features recurring NPCs.
I definitely hope that you will see Glimnock return; I have a number of ideas for future adventures involving the fate of Lantan and the lost relics of Gond Wonderbringer. And I know I am not alone in enjoying the occasional adventure that features recurring NPCs.
Keith
Sean, I expect to be playing CORE1-4 Saturday morning.
Great! If you and Claire don't like it, then I will be especially disappointed, because I tried to make it as much like a Living Death adventure as I thought I could get away with, at least if one were to re-imagine Living Death through the lens of high fantasy, the Forgotten Realms, and 4th Edition. ;)
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With the Cursechanged Beggar in his hit point line it reads:
HP 304; Bloodied 152; see also cough up a lung
I do not see a reference to what cough up a lung is. Can you post the rules for that.
HP 304; Bloodied 152; see also cough up a lung
I do not see a reference to what cough up a lung is. Can you post the rules for that.
I'm running it on Sunday, It looks like a great mod but I have one question:Show
I do not see a reference to what cough up a lung is. Can you post the rules for that.
I've already noticed a few annoying little mistakes that slipped into the final version, but there doesn't seem to be anything that would actually cause a problem during the game.
Annoying little mistakes are really hard to avoid even when you are not much in a hurry. I am sure the players can forgive us, at least those who ever written or edited things will ;)
I think I might use DME to make it a minion
I'm going to be running this in the next couple weeks. When they bloody the Cursechanged Beggar, it's totally coughing up a lung on the street.
I think I might use DME to make it a minion
I LOLed at this... I might have to steal that idea.
So, there goes half the party chasing a crazy bouncing lung down the street as it desperately tries to escape yelling "kill it, kill it!", "don't let it get away" and "my god what was that thing?".
Really, the rest fo the adventure was downhill from there.
That, and the stares of incredulity from both my table and the table next to mine. "Yeah, that's right, we're fighting an evil lung. What are you fighting?"
Just for the record, I was planning to ask Chris T. to let me upload a revised version of the adventure that would get rid of the erroneous reference to the "cough up a lung" ability, but after reading this thread and all the different things people are coming up with for the "Barfupalung," I've totally changed my mind.
I'm going to run it that way myself next time. Hilarious and disgusting at the same time -- just the way I like it!As for miniatures, I saw a DM have the creature hack up Barfy, then lay down a Jelly Belly. I thought that was a great mini for an evil lung.
A final note: I think Cough Up a Lung would be more interesting if he actually hacked up multiple Barfys, maybe four. I'll have to try that next time, and see what happens.