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DME and reskinning

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
grimjaws
Mar 12, 2009 19:56:52 Well met,
Being a new DM to the whole LFR experience, I have a quick question about reskinning adventures. Would it be possible to take an adventure from one region and change the region? Say take an Akanul region adventure and change the setting information for say Luruar?

Thanks,
Cason
#2
SYB
Mar 12, 2009 20:19:29 The DME rules aren't exactly specific, but the higher ups have made it pretty clear that is the kind of reskinning they do NOT want to happen. If the entire table understood that the adventure was set in Akanul and the entire table would prefer to play in Luruar, there would probably be no harm to making that change. But, everyone would have to understand that future references to that adventure with people who weren't at the table would basically have to refer to real region.

-SYB
#3
grimjaws
Mar 13, 2009 8:50:26 Got it. So it is bacically impossible to run an LFR game set in one specific region?* A DM would have to do a Realms hopping style game and not worry about narratively tying them together.

*As it seemes that each region has only one adventure per bracket (levels 1-4, 5-10, etc.) and in the documentation it states that LFR is based on leveling up every three adventures.
#4
kenobi65
Mar 13, 2009 9:57:36 That's correct. There simply aren't enough adventures in any particular region for a character to be able to advance solely by playing in one region, and it doesn't look like this will substantially change in the future, either.
#5
SYB
Mar 13, 2009 10:18:44 By the end of this year or next year, you can probably almost do it. Not one region. But three or four nearby regions plus a few Core modules that are set near those regions or are region independent (CORE1-1 for example -- you have to play it to understand).

Right now, for example, I think Dalelands, Cormyr, Waterdeep, Luruar could be your stomping grounds and you could level up to 4 (with some significant high tier play). They each have a 1-4 adventure (I don't remember if any of them have a new one coming out Q2). SPEC1-1 is set in the middle of that area. CORE1-1 is area independent. CORE1-2 is on the eastern edge of that area (if I remember my map correctly). And CORE1-3 is set in that area. That is seven normal adventures and a special. That is basically a sure thing to level 4 (and maybe 5 with some high play).

-SYB
#6
kenobi65
Mar 13, 2009 10:45:17 That's a good point, SYB...if you're willing to do a "metaregional" campaign, maybe with an occasional foray out into a different region, you might be able to get it to hold together.

Ultimately, one should keep in mind that LFR is designed primarily for play at conventions and game days, where one can't predict what order adventures will be played in, or what the table make-up will be from adventure to adventure. While one *can* use LFR to run a "consistent" campaign (i.e., one DM, the same set of players and PCs from adventure to adventure), it's not really set up to cater strongly to that style of play.
#7
grimjaws
Mar 13, 2009 11:40:30
Right now, for example, I think Dalelands, Cormyr, Waterdeep, Luruar could be your stomping grounds and you could level up to 4 (with some significant high tier play). They each have a 1-4 adventure (I don't remember if any of them have a new one coming out Q2). SPEC1-1 is set in the middle of that area. CORE1-1 is area independent. CORE1-2 is on the eastern edge of that area (if I remember my map correctly). And CORE1-3 is set in that area. That is seven normal adventures and a special. That is basically a sure thing to level 4 (and maybe 5 with some high play).

if you're willing to do a "metaregional" campaign, maybe with an occasional foray out into a different region, you might be able to get it to hold together.

Ultimately, one should keep in mind that LFR is designed primarily for play at conventions and game days, where one can't predict what order adventures will be played in, or what the table make-up will be from adventure to adventure. While one *can* use LFR to run a "consistent" campaign (i.e., one DM, the same set of players and PCs from adventure to adventure), it's not really set up to cater strongly to that style of play.

This is what I figured I'd have to do a meta regional game, and thanks kenobi for actually stating something that it seemed the RPGA kind of kept obscured with the whole it's not a unified campaign thing. Oh well, I can still use the adventures in my home RPGA game.
#8
smerwin29
Mar 13, 2009 13:26:00
Ultimately, one should keep in mind that LFR is designed primarily for play at conventions and game days, where one can't predict what order adventures will be played in, or what the table make-up will be from adventure to adventure. While one *can* use LFR to run a "consistent" campaign (i.e., one DM, the same set of players and PCs from adventure to adventure), it's not really set up to cater strongly to that style of play.

While I would not dare directly contradict the wise kenobi, I want to add a thought here. I do not think LFR is designed PRIMARILY for convention and game day play. I think it is primarily designed for players who wish to go between home play and public play. :-)

Shawn
#9
kenobi65
Mar 13, 2009 13:48:01
While I would not dare directly contradict the wise kenobi, I want to add a thought here. I do not think LFR is designed PRIMARILY for convention and game day play. I think it is primarily designed for players who wish to go between home play and public play. :-)

Oh, go ahead and contradict me, man...I'm well aware that Wisdom is my dump stat. ;)

That's an interesting observation, and a different way to look at it. I'll instead say that LFR, like most (if not all) Living-style campaigns, isn't specifically designed to be a home campaign, and, thus, may not always be well-suited to the needs of a home group.
#10
kinevon
Mar 13, 2009 15:20:38 Another option, especially suitable for a home group, is to go through the ADAP series of adventures. All of them are in the same general area, and, especially for the Scepter Tower (ADAP1-2 to 1-4), will run the PCs up to the next tier fairly easily.
#11
Fundin_Strongarm
Mar 14, 2009 18:41:03 I've done some work here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1137070 on cobbling together "meta-regional" campaigns designed around the Sea of Fallen Stars and another around the Sea of Swords.

I will be adding to that list very soon since the 2009Q2 adventure schedule has been released. (It's still a little light on Sea of Fallen Stars level 1-4 mods, which kinda sucks.) I'm also going to tighten up those "meta-campaigns" a bit.
#12
Alphastream
Mar 15, 2009 23:39:33 The DME guide stickied in the forum addresses this to some extent.

Specifically, I agree that you would really want to make sure the entire table is comfortable with such a major DME change. And, you would want to make it realizing that in the future such a significant change will likely not be allowed.

A more moderate DME change is to simply offer a strong tie-in to the mod so that it pertains to your region and or/ your PCs. Using the FRPG/FRCG and just some common ideas (an NPC wanting merchantile options, an NPC wanting to strengthen diplomatic ties, etc.) you can find reasons for PCs to venture to other regions.
#13
Madfox11
Mar 16, 2009 10:52:29
Right now, for example, I think Dalelands, Cormyr, Waterdeep, Luruar could be your stomping grounds and you could level up to 4 (with some significant high tier play). They each have a 1-4 adventure (I don't remember if any of them have a new one coming out Q2). SPEC1-1 is set in the middle of that area. CORE1-1 is area independent. CORE1-2 is on the eastern edge of that area (if I remember my map correctly). And CORE1-3 is set in that area. That is seven normal adventures and a special. That is basically a sure thing to level 4 (and maybe 5 with some high play).

Erm... you might want to take another look at the FR map. Zhentil Keep does NOT lie in the middle between Cormyr, the Dalelands, Luruar and Waterdeep ;) You are also misremembering the cores. CORE1-1 is set in Sembia. CORE1-2 in Thesk. CORE1-3 near Amn, but it really does not matter where you begin for said adventure.

Of course, the advice to stick to selection of regions based on the map for a home campaign is a good one ;)
#14
Keithric
Mar 16, 2009 13:50:04 I really like this map for showing me where stuff is when I don't want to get the books out... or even when I have the books out.
http://www.adnddownloads.com/images/fr_4e_map.jpg

Now to get a version of it with marks on it for all the LFR modules
#15
Fundin_Strongarm
Apr 10, 2009 8:56:39
I've done some work here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1137070 on cobbling together "meta-regional" campaigns designed around the Sea of Fallen Stars and another around the Sea of Swords.

I will be adding to that list very soon since the 2009Q2 adventure schedule has been released. (It's still a little light on Sea of Fallen Stars level 1-4 mods, which kinda sucks.) I'm also going to tighten up those "meta-campaigns" a bit.

I finally got around to updating that thread.

Happy gaming!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 grimjaws Mar 12, 2009 19:56:52	Well met, Being a new DM to the whole LFR experience, I have a quick question about reskinning adventures. Would it be possible to take an adventure from one region and change the region? Say take an Akanul region adventure and change the setting information for say Luruar? Thanks, Cason
#2 SYB Mar 12, 2009 20:19:29	The DME rules aren't exactly specific, but the higher ups have made it pretty clear that is the kind of reskinning they do NOT want to happen. If the entire table understood that the adventure was set in Akanul and the entire table would prefer to play in Luruar, there would probably be no harm to making that change. But, everyone would have to understand that future references to that adventure with people who weren't at the table would basically have to refer to real region. -SYB
#3 grimjaws Mar 13, 2009 8:50:26	Got it. So it is bacically impossible to run an LFR game set in one specific region?* A DM would have to do a Realms hopping style game and not worry about narratively tying them together. *As it seemes that each region has only one adventure per bracket (levels 1-4, 5-10, etc.) and in the documentation it states that LFR is based on leveling up every three adventures.
#4 kenobi65 Mar 13, 2009 9:57:36	That's correct. There simply aren't enough adventures in any particular region for a character to be able to advance solely by playing in one region, and it doesn't look like this will substantially change in the future, either.
#5 SYB Mar 13, 2009 10:18:44	By the end of this year or next year, you can probably almost do it. Not one region. But three or four nearby regions plus a few Core modules that are set near those regions or are region independent (CORE1-1 for example -- you have to play it to understand). Right now, for example, I think Dalelands, Cormyr, Waterdeep, Luruar could be your stomping grounds and you could level up to 4 (with some significant high tier play). They each have a 1-4 adventure (I don't remember if any of them have a new one coming out Q2). SPEC1-1 is set in the middle of that area. CORE1-1 is area independent. CORE1-2 is on the eastern edge of that area (if I remember my map correctly). And CORE1-3 is set in that area. That is seven normal adventures and a special. That is basically a sure thing to level 4 (and maybe 5 with some high play). -SYB
#6 kenobi65 Mar 13, 2009 10:45:17	That's a good point, SYB...if you're willing to do a "metaregional" campaign, maybe with an occasional foray out into a different region, you might be able to get it to hold together. Ultimately, one should keep in mind that LFR is designed primarily for play at conventions and game days, where one can't predict what order adventures will be played in, or what the table make-up will be from adventure to adventure. While one can use LFR to run a "consistent" campaign (i.e., one DM, the same set of players and PCs from adventure to adventure), it's not really set up to cater strongly to that style of play.
#7 grimjaws Mar 13, 2009 11:40:30	Right now, for example, I think Dalelands, Cormyr, Waterdeep, Luruar could be your stomping grounds and you could level up to 4 (with some significant high tier play). They each have a 1-4 adventure (I don't remember if any of them have a new one coming out Q2). SPEC1-1 is set in the middle of that area. CORE1-1 is area independent. CORE1-2 is on the eastern edge of that area (if I remember my map correctly). And CORE1-3 is set in that area. That is seven normal adventures and a special. That is basically a sure thing to level 4 (and maybe 5 with some high play). if you're willing to do a "metaregional" campaign, maybe with an occasional foray out into a different region, you might be able to get it to hold together. Ultimately, one should keep in mind that LFR is designed primarily for play at conventions and game days, where one can't predict what order adventures will be played in, or what the table make-up will be from adventure to adventure. While one can use LFR to run a "consistent" campaign (i.e., one DM, the same set of players and PCs from adventure to adventure), it's not really set up to cater strongly to that style of play. This is what I figured I'd have to do a meta regional game, and thanks kenobi for actually stating something that it seemed the RPGA kind of kept obscured with the whole it's not a unified campaign thing. Oh well, I can still use the adventures in my home RPGA game.
#8 smerwin29 Mar 13, 2009 13:26:00	Ultimately, one should keep in mind that LFR is designed primarily for play at conventions and game days, where one can't predict what order adventures will be played in, or what the table make-up will be from adventure to adventure. While one can use LFR to run a "consistent" campaign (i.e., one DM, the same set of players and PCs from adventure to adventure), it's not really set up to cater strongly to that style of play. While I would not dare directly contradict the wise kenobi, I want to add a thought here. I do not think LFR is designed PRIMARILY for convention and game day play. I think it is primarily designed for players who wish to go between home play and public play. :-) Shawn
#9 kenobi65 Mar 13, 2009 13:48:01	While I would not dare directly contradict the wise kenobi, I want to add a thought here. I do not think LFR is designed PRIMARILY for convention and game day play. I think it is primarily designed for players who wish to go between home play and public play. :-) Oh, go ahead and contradict me, man...I'm well aware that Wisdom is my dump stat. ;) That's an interesting observation, and a different way to look at it. I'll instead say that LFR, like most (if not all) Living-style campaigns, isn't specifically designed to be a home campaign, and, thus, may not always be well-suited to the needs of a home group.
#10 kinevon Mar 13, 2009 15:20:38	Another option, especially suitable for a home group, is to go through the ADAP series of adventures. All of them are in the same general area, and, especially for the Scepter Tower (ADAP1-2 to 1-4), will run the PCs up to the next tier fairly easily.
#11 Fundin_Strongarm Mar 14, 2009 18:41:03	I've done some work here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1137070 on cobbling together "meta-regional" campaigns designed around the Sea of Fallen Stars and another around the Sea of Swords. I will be adding to that list very soon since the 2009Q2 adventure schedule has been released. (It's still a little light on Sea of Fallen Stars level 1-4 mods, which kinda sucks.) I'm also going to tighten up those "meta-campaigns" a bit.
#12 Alphastream Mar 15, 2009 23:39:33	The DME guide stickied in the forum addresses this to some extent. Specifically, I agree that you would really want to make sure the entire table is comfortable with such a major DME change. And, you would want to make it realizing that in the future such a significant change will likely not be allowed. A more moderate DME change is to simply offer a strong tie-in to the mod so that it pertains to your region and or/ your PCs. Using the FRPG/FRCG and just some common ideas (an NPC wanting merchantile options, an NPC wanting to strengthen diplomatic ties, etc.) you can find reasons for PCs to venture to other regions.
#13 Madfox11 Mar 16, 2009 10:52:29	Right now, for example, I think Dalelands, Cormyr, Waterdeep, Luruar could be your stomping grounds and you could level up to 4 (with some significant high tier play). They each have a 1-4 adventure (I don't remember if any of them have a new one coming out Q2). SPEC1-1 is set in the middle of that area. CORE1-1 is area independent. CORE1-2 is on the eastern edge of that area (if I remember my map correctly). And CORE1-3 is set in that area. That is seven normal adventures and a special. That is basically a sure thing to level 4 (and maybe 5 with some high play). Erm... you might want to take another look at the FR map. Zhentil Keep does NOT lie in the middle between Cormyr, the Dalelands, Luruar and Waterdeep ;) You are also misremembering the cores. CORE1-1 is set in Sembia. CORE1-2 in Thesk. CORE1-3 near Amn, but it really does not matter where you begin for said adventure. Of course, the advice to stick to selection of regions based on the map for a home campaign is a good one ;)
#14 Keithric Mar 16, 2009 13:50:04	I really like this map for showing me where stuff is when I don't want to get the books out... or even when I have the books out. http://www.adnddownloads.com/images/fr_4e_map.jpg Now to get a version of it with marks on it for all the LFR modules
#15 Fundin_Strongarm Apr 10, 2009 8:56:39	I've done some work here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1137070 on cobbling together "meta-regional" campaigns designed around the Sea of Fallen Stars and another around the Sea of Swords. I will be adding to that list very soon since the 2009Q2 adventure schedule has been released. (It's still a little light on Sea of Fallen Stars level 1-4 mods, which kinda sucks.) I'm also going to tighten up those "meta-campaigns" a bit. I finally got around to updating that thread. Happy gaming!