Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dkay807 Nov 05, 2008 20:48:17	One major difference between 4e and 3.5 is the fact that PCs do not gain the ability to fly until much later in their careers, and even then, the options are quite limited. In the 4-7 adventures, I've noticed encounters that contain flying creatures with ranged attacks designed to follow a "stay out of the PCs' reach" tactic. Furthermore, encounters provide the PCs with no means by which to reach these creatures. Is it reasonable to expect PCs to find ways to attack these creatures without being archery rangers, warlocks, wizards, lazer clerics, or *maybe* dagger rogues? I know quite a bit about encounter design, and this seems like a poor example of it to me. If you as a module writer want to make monsters tough to reach, you should provide the PCs with some means by which to reach them - climbing or jumping at the very least. What happens when a party with little to no ranged capability runs into one of these encounters? Do they have to flee through no fault of their own? I'm avoiding spoilers for now...
#2 Jay_Ibero_911 Nov 05, 2008 21:30:19	One major difference between 4e and 3.5 is the fact that PCs do not gain the ability to fly until much later in their careers, and even then, the options are quite limited. In the 4-7 adventures, I've noticed encounters that contain flying creatures with ranged attacks designed to follow a "stay out of the PCs' reach" tactic. Furthermore, encounters provide the PCs with no means by which to reach these creatures. Is it reasonable to expect PCs to find ways to attack these creatures without being archery rangers, warlocks, wizards, lazer clerics, or *maybe* dagger rogues? I know quite a bit about encounter design, and this seems like a poor example of it to me. If you as a module writer want to make monsters tough to reach, you should provide the PCs with some means by which to reach them - climbing or jumping at the very least. What happens when a party with little to no ranged capability runs into one of these encounters? Do they have to flee through no fault of their own? I'm avoiding spoilers for now... Well I guess they expect non-ranged specialists to at least HAVE a ranged option...even a +1 heavy thrown weapon makes a fighter capable at range...Rogues could keep a crossbow handy (if they aren't already using one) and still be dangerous. Much less fancy without the powers to back up these secondary weapons, but still dangerous.
#3 matteblack Nov 05, 2008 22:00:20	Your defenders still have some functionality with their marks as long as they have a ranged weapon. I think just about every class could easily have a ranged attack available. One of the first things my friends and I equipped our melee types with were some sort of ranged weapon for the inevitable "gun fight". There are always going to be fights where one class or another is blunted. I wouldn't think it to be very fair to have more than one such combat encounter per mod or even have one in every mod but, as long as those don't occur too often, I like the variety.
#4 telvin3d Nov 05, 2008 23:21:00	Almost all the defenders I have DMed have a couple javelins for just in case. For 95% of groups, it won't be a problem. And really, if you have groups that regularly have no ability to do any sort of ranged attacks, this SHOULD be a wake-up call. Heck, worst case scenario, point them at the stats for improvised weapons.
#5 Madfox11 Nov 06, 2008 3:20:29	I agree with your assessment in general. It is something I definitely try to keep in mind when reviewing adventures. Still, it helps if you provide specific examples. For example, I have had complaints about the flying opponents in CORE1-1 where the DM misinterpreted the terrain as well as the flight capabilities of those opponents (clumsy flyers cannot fight well when flying). Terrain can have a big impact, even when fighting outside, chances are your PC could flee under cover, forcing the flying opponents down if they want to hurt your PC. I would also think that R&D took the flight abilities into account when assigning levels, damage output, defenses and special abilities. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA LFR Global Administrator
#6 ferol_debtor_of_torm Nov 06, 2008 13:06:04	I haven't seen too much of a problem with flying monsters in 4-7 mods. Every scenario I can think of that had flying monsters had climbable features nearby for melee characters to take advantage of. The one that really sticks out in my mind involved flying ranged dudes in the rafters of a building. The melee characters at my table just climbed the walls to get into the rafters and pummeled the flying monsters from there.
#7 dkay807 Nov 06, 2008 13:51:20	I agree with your assessment in general. It is something I definitely try to keep in mind when reviewing adventures. Still, it helps if you provide specific examples. For example, I have had complaints about the flying opponents in CORE1-1 where the DM misinterpreted the terrain as well as the flight capabilities of those opponents (clumsy flyers cannot fight well when flying). Terrain can have a big impact, even when fighting outside, chances are your PC could flee under cover, forcing the flying opponents down if they want to hurt your PC. I would also think that R&D took the flight abilities into account when assigning levels, damage output, defenses and special abilities. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA LFR Global Administrator Example sent off-list.