Modifying Mod Maps/Encounters in Private LFR - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Modifying Mod Maps/Encounters in Private LFR

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
-charmy-
Jun 07, 2010 15:13:33 Hey all,

Just had a question about something I haven't seen yet covered too much in DME discussions.

I'm fairly new to DMing 4e and LFR, and I have a group of 6 that I play with on a weekly basis. All of the players I have are mostly new to D&D, 4e, and LFR in general. I have let them know that as a private game I'm not attempting to simulate a 100% faithful recreation of the adventures as-written. I do however, want them to still be able to keep their characters LFR legal should they decide one day to attend a formal event.

To that end I faithfully retain follow everything underlined in the LFR CCG. I don't change the kinds of monsters they face, storyline, rewards of exp and gold, magic items, build options, etc. They're currently being put through the MINI adventures in Returned Abeir. I also exercise the DME options I do have available to me, such as sometimes reordering events, the time when certain information is offered, flesh out existing NPC characters, mix up monster tactics, etc.

One additional thing I've been changing is some of the map layouts of certain encounters. A fellow DM has suggested I double check on the boards to make sure this is ok, so hence this post. My aim is to have the flexibility to make the game more fun and challenging for players, while at the same time remaining LFR legal without having to turn the campaigns into MYRE campaigns.

For example: I've been looking through MINI 1-3, and I feel that some of these maps are a little confining and spartan for 6 PCs. For example, one is just a room 8 squares across with the monsters starting a mere 6 squares away from the PCs. I've even read on these forums that DMs in the past have had issues with mods like this and players first turn "alpha striking" key monsters so that they die before they can even have a single turn. I also think that such small, simple maps where everyone is in each other's faces on the first turn devalue the usefulness of roles like Controllers and Defenders, while overemphasizing the value of strikers.

To this end, in prior adventures I spiced up maps by increasing their size by a few squares at key points, throw in minions when there aren't any, or add additional minions, and add some additional pieces of cover, terrain features, multi-use terrain, etc. The minions I do throw in are from the campaign of course. (for example, in MINI1-3 I'd throw in additional kenku minions, since they are present in the mod) This accomplishes, among other things:
a) Controllers are given more to do
b) Gives a buffer for some key controller and artillery monsters to react before they're splattered into gooey bits by the Ranger's 60+ damage Begin the Hunt + Jaws of the Wolf + Two Fanged Strike combo :O
c) PCs and monsters have more room to tactically maneouver. Spacing, speed boosting powers, shifting powers, etc. become more valuable.

I know this kind of thing wouldnt' fly in a public venue where players expect consistency from table to table, but in a private venue where players know they shouldn't expect a convention-type experience, this strikes me as ok.

So what are your thoughts on this? Kosher? Or am I exercising excessive DME and should be forced to run MYRE?

Thanks in advance!
- Jeff
#2
Keith53
Jun 07, 2010 16:21:56 A DM can adjust placement of creatures on maps and even create similar maps (i.e., redraw the map for greater details and add flavor). I would caution you not to totally create a different encounter setting as that starts to rewrite the actual adventure; don't change a forest encounter into a marsh encounter. Of course, as DM you are expected to understand the consequences of adjustments you make and the adjustment to challenge is what the players desire, not just what you think is fun.

Keith
#3
Madfox11
Jun 08, 2010 2:22:45 Increasing the size of maps is also allowed if it makes sense. Buildings should not suddenly grow in size, but adding a few dozen more feet of forest or field is fine. Keith's warning about the impact map changes might have is important though. A small change can lead to a big change in how the battle is run, so think good about any changes you make.
#4
Alphastream
Jun 08, 2010 12:33:02 I think it is fine to make the changes. I find that adventures featuring very plain terrain are often improved by more interesting terrain, but it is best if you take care to not slow game-play. Terrain can have bit impacts on how PCs and monsters move.

I also find that the more complex scenarios have often had the terrain carefully tweaked by authors and playtest rounds - changing them can change the outcome and how the encounter plays. With some of the encounters I wrote, I literally analyzed spacing down to exact squares for what I hope will be optimum play. Now, surely, this won't happen every time and a good time can be had regardless, but I believe the sizes of the map to be best when run as-is. (Especially when your DM and players are experienced and tactical in nature).
#5
Benird
Jun 08, 2010 19:40:32 I know when last ran MINI 1-3 at a con I swapped the 1st skill challenge with a later fight. So the actual encounters in the mod remained the same expect for the fight's terrain (It was in the location of the 1st skill challenge) not in the location after the following skill challenge.

Sure this caused some encounter mixup in balance but given that every group I've run this for has had no real challenge in the mod it made for a great game.

All repeat players of the mod said it made more sense in the story of the aadventure too.

Out local public playgroup all seemed to think it fits into DME and no players have had an issue with it so I say go for it as long as the XP/Level challenge of the encounters don't change. Be careful with terrain modifications though as they can affect the balance of a fight for or against the PCs.
#6
mvincent
Jun 10, 2010 19:12:38 Altering maps to accomodate speedy set-up, visual appeal, etc. is in line with "Make decisions and adjudications that enhance the fun of the adventure when possible". Indeed, sometimes it might be unavoidable; LFR DM's often do not have the correct tiles available to them, and player actions might well alter the location (and/or setup) of a fight.
#7
XaviYago
Jun 14, 2010 12:59:47 I'll also add to be watchful of the starting blocks on maps. Sometimes these are set in narrow halls, etc., that when monsters win initiative it could create a very boring log jam.

Although it may not be modifying the map per se, DMs may need to modify the starting area or how/when the combat begins from what the module says.
#8
dkay807
Jun 14, 2010 13:49:33
With some of the encounters I wrote, I literally analyzed spacing down to exact squares for what I hope will be optimum play. Now, surely, this won't happen every time and a good time can be had regardless, but I believe the sizes of the map to be best when run as-is. (Especially when your DM and players are experienced and tactical in nature).

I do this as well. Be carefuly with map changes. Sometimes, they're okay, but keep in mind that they could have significant impacts on how the encounter runs, for the better or worse.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 -charmy- Jun 07, 2010 15:13:33	Hey all, Just had a question about something I haven't seen yet covered too much in DME discussions. I'm fairly new to DMing 4e and LFR, and I have a group of 6 that I play with on a weekly basis. All of the players I have are mostly new to D&D, 4e, and LFR in general. I have let them know that as a private game I'm not attempting to simulate a 100% faithful recreation of the adventures as-written. I do however, want them to still be able to keep their characters LFR legal should they decide one day to attend a formal event. To that end I faithfully retain follow everything underlined in the LFR CCG. I don't change the kinds of monsters they face, storyline, rewards of exp and gold, magic items, build options, etc. They're currently being put through the MINI adventures in Returned Abeir. I also exercise the DME options I do have available to me, such as sometimes reordering events, the time when certain information is offered, flesh out existing NPC characters, mix up monster tactics, etc. One additional thing I've been changing is some of the map layouts of certain encounters. A fellow DM has suggested I double check on the boards to make sure this is ok, so hence this post. My aim is to have the flexibility to make the game more fun and challenging for players, while at the same time remaining LFR legal without having to turn the campaigns into MYRE campaigns. For example: I've been looking through MINI 1-3, and I feel that some of these maps are a little confining and spartan for 6 PCs. For example, one is just a room 8 squares across with the monsters starting a mere 6 squares away from the PCs. I've even read on these forums that DMs in the past have had issues with mods like this and players first turn "alpha striking" key monsters so that they die before they can even have a single turn. I also think that such small, simple maps where everyone is in each other's faces on the first turn devalue the usefulness of roles like Controllers and Defenders, while overemphasizing the value of strikers. To this end, in prior adventures I spiced up maps by increasing their size by a few squares at key points, throw in minions when there aren't any, or add additional minions, and add some additional pieces of cover, terrain features, multi-use terrain, etc. The minions I do throw in are from the campaign of course. (for example, in MINI1-3 I'd throw in additional kenku minions, since they are present in the mod) This accomplishes, among other things: a) Controllers are given more to do b) Gives a buffer for some key controller and artillery monsters to react before they're splattered into gooey bits by the Ranger's 60+ damage Begin the Hunt + Jaws of the Wolf + Two Fanged Strike combo :O c) PCs and monsters have more room to tactically maneouver. Spacing, speed boosting powers, shifting powers, etc. become more valuable. I know this kind of thing wouldnt' fly in a public venue where players expect consistency from table to table, but in a private venue where players know they shouldn't expect a convention-type experience, this strikes me as ok. So what are your thoughts on this? Kosher? Or am I exercising excessive DME and should be forced to run MYRE? Thanks in advance! - Jeff
#2 Keith53 Jun 07, 2010 16:21:56	A DM can adjust placement of creatures on maps and even create similar maps (i.e., redraw the map for greater details and add flavor). I would caution you not to totally create a different encounter setting as that starts to rewrite the actual adventure; don't change a forest encounter into a marsh encounter. Of course, as DM you are expected to understand the consequences of adjustments you make and the adjustment to challenge is what the players desire, not just what you think is fun. Keith
#3 Madfox11 Jun 08, 2010 2:22:45	Increasing the size of maps is also allowed if it makes sense. Buildings should not suddenly grow in size, but adding a few dozen more feet of forest or field is fine. Keith's warning about the impact map changes might have is important though. A small change can lead to a big change in how the battle is run, so think good about any changes you make.
#4 Alphastream Jun 08, 2010 12:33:02	I think it is fine to make the changes. I find that adventures featuring very plain terrain are often improved by more interesting terrain, but it is best if you take care to not slow game-play. Terrain can have bit impacts on how PCs and monsters move. I also find that the more complex scenarios have often had the terrain carefully tweaked by authors and playtest rounds - changing them can change the outcome and how the encounter plays. With some of the encounters I wrote, I literally analyzed spacing down to exact squares for what I hope will be optimum play. Now, surely, this won't happen every time and a good time can be had regardless, but I believe the sizes of the map to be best when run as-is. (Especially when your DM and players are experienced and tactical in nature).
#5 Benird Jun 08, 2010 19:40:32	I know when last ran MINI 1-3 at a con I swapped the 1st skill challenge with a later fight. So the actual encounters in the mod remained the same expect for the fight's terrain (It was in the location of the 1st skill challenge) not in the location after the following skill challenge. Sure this caused some encounter mixup in balance but given that every group I've run this for has had no real challenge in the mod it made for a great game. All repeat players of the mod said it made more sense in the story of the aadventure too. Out local public playgroup all seemed to think it fits into DME and no players have had an issue with it so I say go for it as long as the XP/Level challenge of the encounters don't change. Be careful with terrain modifications though as they can affect the balance of a fight for or against the PCs.
#6 mvincent Jun 10, 2010 19:12:38	Altering maps to accomodate speedy set-up, visual appeal, etc. is in line with "Make decisions and adjudications that enhance the fun of the adventure when possible". Indeed, sometimes it might be unavoidable; LFR DM's often do not have the correct tiles available to them, and player actions might well alter the location (and/or setup) of a fight.
#7 XaviYago Jun 14, 2010 12:59:47	I'll also add to be watchful of the starting blocks on maps. Sometimes these are set in narrow halls, etc., that when monsters win initiative it could create a very boring log jam. Although it may not be modifying the map per se, DMs may need to modify the starting area or how/when the combat begins from what the module says.
#8 dkay807 Jun 14, 2010 13:49:33	With some of the encounters I wrote, I literally analyzed spacing down to exact squares for what I hope will be optimum play. Now, surely, this won't happen every time and a good time can be had regardless, but I believe the sizes of the map to be best when run as-is. (Especially when your DM and players are experienced and tactical in nature). I do this as well. Be carefuly with map changes. Sometimes, they're okay, but keep in mind that they could have significant impacts on how the encounter runs, for the better or worse.