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| #1UthracDec 29, 2009 13:34:07 | As the title indicated, extreme spoilers here. If you are planning to play this mod, well, you probably shouldn't be reading this thread anyway! ![]() I'll be running this game this weekend at a New Year's con, but here are my thoughts having read through the mod twice in preparation. First and foremost, this is a very disappointing mod for paragon tier characters. The plot read like something for an H2 adventure. If your players just want a typical mercenary mission where they get to kill some bad guys, this is a good mod. If they want to "flex their paragon" muscles, they will be disappointed. They are treated (throughout the mod) as nothing more than heroic mercenaries. More about that below. Intro/Encounter 1: Missing family member hook has been used in oh-so-many H1/H2 adventures. I expect eye-rolls from my players when this is presented as the hook. Sure the "Fisherman" is targeting them - - you'd think he'd use more attractive bait, though. She can't even pay them. The hook reads as "There's some vampires that need killing. Go get them." I imagine many PCs will have more trouble with the Banites/Amnians than with "possible vampires." Very weak, especially at paragon tier. Encounter 2: Some roleplaying to get the feel of the city, and a confrontation with the guards. Expected, and not bad. Would have liked some History/Streetwise bullets to give PCs some information and/or a player's handout. Since this is a "new region" for PCs, I would have liked more here (perhaps a skill challenge) to present the city. Encounter 3: Nothing kills the "paragon feel" faster than fighting mercenary street guards that are ALSO paragon level. Furthermore, the one sentence offered in the Tactics section breaks the rules - - the genasi can't use their ongoing fire damage on their own turn (provoking opportunity attacks) because the ongoing fire damage is an immediate action attack. This is a racial ability that players will be familiar with. Also, the fight takes place on City Streets, but the map uses Dungeon Tiles (x6) instead of Streets of Shadow. The only redeeming aspect of this encounter is the inhabitants in the closed homes doing things. Sadly, this makes no sense, as (1) The PCs are unlikely to enter the homes and (2) Commoners are now attacking paragon PCs - - WTF? Again, appropriate for an H1 or H2 adventure, but not for P1. (My level 1 fighter would love some of this 2d8+6 broken glass please! Heck, the Level 16 minions only do 7 damage, and they need a to-hit roll!) Encounter 4: Fine, but scene feels like it should have been in one of the earlier MOON adventures (H1/H2) to introduce this NPC. The only paragon hooks seems to be "We need you to kill the vampires," though there seem to be plenty of mercenaries (albeit, alegiances compromised) who could handle the job locally. Encounter 5: Okay, finally a paragon fight! While tactics for the minions and "put the aura in the middle" are given, more helpful would have been tactics for A, who has six standard actions to choose from! An interesting map as well! (I like that PCs have several different directions to worry about.) Encounter 6: Run away from the guards skill challenge. At paragon tier. Really? Angels of Cyric are the best part of this mod - very paragon, since you're getting some direct attention from an evil god. Unfortunately, I predict that A will be dead before getting a turn. (Maybe he'll get one turn, at some tables.) As a test player, I would have recommended describing the skill challenge, and putting more XP into making this a climactic battle! As-is, it reads as wasted potential. Encounter 7: Meet the queen. I suspect that my players will go this route, assuming that that is what paragon characters do - - get audiences with heads of state. This is a good role-playing encounter.Encounter 8: As with Encounter 5, a horde of vampires (& friends) make for a good paragon fight! Again, disappointed in the terrain. (Streets of Shadow would have livened things up with benches, fountains, etc.) Encounter 9: We'll see how a fight with a solo-iconic creature goes. Adding minons that can do 7 damage is not much of a compensation for 6 PCs. The map and terrain are, again, bland. (The tile is from an old set, not Ruins of the Wild.) Encounter 10: So, whichever path the PCs choose, it looks like they will be running away from guards. The potential climactic battle here against the Angels will be short-lived. Perhaps denying a short-rest after Encounter 9 will make this a more interesting fight? (If the group blows all of their powers in the solo fight, I may give them a brief-short-rest to recover 1 encounter power of their choice - - I don't want the last fight to be an at-will grind!) Encounter 11: Story Award MOON14 is not included in the story awards PDF for players, and no description is given in the mod. "Walked into some bigger plot" is hardly the "end of a major quest." Overall, my disappointment with this mod stems from (1) Easily could have been written as a 4-7 mod and (2) Terrain features are bland. [Perhaps in the next MOON adventures we'll get to use ship tiles! ] |
| #2dkay807Dec 29, 2009 14:51:21 | Couldn't agree more with all of your assertions. When I heard this adventure advertised, it was described as "The darkest plot seen in LFR." I have to say I was seriously disappointed. I especially agree with the complaints regarding the maps - really bland maps that show a complete lack of imagination! |
| #3UthracJan 03, 2010 11:07:54 | I was delighted that this mod played MUCH better than it read! ![]() The group took the heroic route in the intro, and had no trouble taking the request in return for some baked goods. Some good chuckles there, but the group of characters is used to high-heroic, so didn't even blink at the character hook. When approached by the guards, an insight check confirmed the action the group wanted to take. ("When the President invites you to the White House for dinner, you don't get to keep your weapons. Duh.') An "audience with the queen, at her request" made sense for paragon characters, and they were happy to meet with her. Fighting the mob in the streets worked well as a paragon encounter. This was pretty straightforward. The "reveal" of The Fisherman's "true identity" got a stronger reaction than I anticipated. Once the group realized what they were fighting, they had a good time in the encounter. (The encounter suffered slightly from the global-problem of solo-encounters, but this was one of the better solo fights for this group.) Eye-rolls (as anticipated) when they found out they needed to run from the guards, but quickly accepted and on into the skill challenge. I reflavored (just a bit) so that the group needed to focus on "learning a new mechanic" instead of "this is lame." I gave them the choice of sticking together, or splitting up, and let them know that "sticking together" meant higher DCs (makes sense). Those who wanted to do Stealth/etc. went off on their own, while the pair of dwarves improvised a Dungeoneering check together to navigate the sewers. The result was a great story for each character; and with "maximum check limits," this was not just a series of dice rolls. In the end, they "somehow" ended up together, and I gave an initiative bonus to the groups that toughed-it-out and stayed together in the Skill-Challenge-Fight. They were really excited when the angel minis hit the table. Fighter won initiative, Come-and-Get-It revealed the minions, and action-point Anvil of Doom pretty much ended the encounter, suprising the PCs! (They expected a solo, once they spotted the minions.) At this point, the players complained about the terrain. ("Kinda bland, all the way through.") So, overall, this mod really worked. Some terrain tweaks will make this one better - - so anyone prepping this should consider some DME to make the terrain more interesting/engaging! |
| #4leebenningfieldJan 03, 2010 23:02:01 | When approached by the guards, an insight check confirmed the action the group wanted to take. ("When the President invites you to the White House for dinner, you don't get to keep your weapons. Duh.') An "audience with the queen, at her request" made sense for paragon characters, and they were happy to meet with her. My group did the opposite when we played this. We didn't react well to being bullied by Amnian soldiers, and their demands that we hand over our weapons. Or that they didn't give us any reason that the Viceroy wanted to see us. It didn't feel like a request for "an audience with the queen", but a demand that we follow orders from a group of people we didn't much care for. Also it turns out she's a vampire, so screw her anyway. |
| #5ughmanJan 03, 2010 23:44:40 | I liked a number of aspects of the adventure, most specifically, the corruption and occupation by a (somewhat lowkey) villainous merchant empire. I liked the vampire fight a good deal, though the other fights didn't quite do it for me. (Besides the terrain, it just seemed the writers didn't have a big enough XP budget to make the other encounters significantly challenging; though this is obviously not their fault.) My primary complaint about the adventure (and the series) was that it felt a bit disjointed and difficult to follow, and that MOON 1-6 did not feel like a conclusion, but more like a step before a conclusion. I'd have preferred that this still continue the major quest, instead of end it, or end one quest and begin another. (Though I realize this is a bit picky, and not too big a deal.) Overall, I had a pretty good time. Furthermore, if the implication is that in future adventures, PCs get to take out these villains and liberate the city, I'm rather excited to play those in the future. (As I'm a fan or "resistance"/espionage type adventuers.) |
| #6mvincentJan 08, 2010 16:44:51 | She can't even pay them. The fact that she treats the PC's as mercenies and can't offer them payment seems odd. My level 1 fighter would love some of this 2d8+6 broken glass ... that allows commoners to auto-hit Paragon PC's... I also agree with the other complaints (bad terrain, etc.)... but since it is still far better than any LFR adventure I've written myself (i.e. none), I am happy to use it as a basis while making subtle changes to battlemaps and NPC interactions. |
| #7VilliansVisionJan 09, 2010 11:38:32 | I ran this mod a little while back ,and at our paragon table we have been having some problem really challenging the group, i made a few mods to the map, and made the vampire fight after the meeting with the Viceroy ( which was a ton of fun to RP out) and i used the idea of the people in houses being merchants in the tents that would auto hit my PC's should the decide to go through the difficult terrain. |
| #8zilrinJan 20, 2010 18:12:48 | Well I think if they fail the skill challenge the dark angels make them an offer they can't refuse succeed and they can pick a fight with them before the mob turns up |
| #9wbbuchJun 04, 2010 13:41:32 | I'm running this mod this weekend at a FLGS and I've got two issues with it that I'm hoping someone with experience can help me: 1. If the players decided to accept the audience with the Viceroy, and then agree to work for her and kill the Fisherman, why are they attacked by vampires as they leave her palace? If the Viceroy is a vampire, then wouldn't these vampires basically be her henchmen? Wouldn't the PC's basically be on the same "team" as the vampires at this point? It doesn't make sense to me - but maybe I'm missing something... 2. Thinking like a player... if it were me, I'd hear out the Viceroy and then agree to help her just to get out of the palace unharmed. Then I'd go pay a visit to the Fisherman (aka Liam) and hear out his side of the story, at which point I'd decide what side of the fight I wanted to be on. Of course on the way to visit the Fisherman I'd get jumped by a group of the Viceroy's vampires - making me all the more likely to switch sides and work for the Fisherman instead. (I don't appreciate being double-crossed...) Again, maybe I'm missing something here, but there are a couple really big contradictions in the story as far as I see it. I have played Black Gold, but not Black Blood - so I sort of know the background of the Fisherman messing with the PC's, but I don't know how that plays out in Black Blood. |