| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1matthewjhansonSep 13, 2009 12:50:18 | I've agreed to DM an LFR adventure next month, and I'm looking for a suggestion on what to run. There's going to be some verterans, so I'd like something from the second wave so fewer people have played it, but there might also be some newbies, so I'd like to keep things levels 1-4. Thanks! |
| #2Keith53Sep 13, 2009 15:47:01 | It depends upon tastes of the players. I ran EAST1-4 a few months ago for players who are extremely role playing oriented, and all had fun. (I made an adjustment in stats for one creature.) I think CORE1-13 works well for a variety of tastes and is very free form. (Both ran and played it.) I plan to DM CORM1-5 in a few weeks as it appears very role playing oriented (and couple it with CORM1-1). Of course, I recommend WATE1-5, but I do have a certain bias. BALD1-4 works better for a tactically oriented group, I think, as does AGLA1-5, but given time and DM-dependent, a role playing group could have fun. I tend to look for adventures that I can focus on the role playing aspects of D&D. Keith
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| #3KeithricSep 13, 2009 16:53:51 | CORE1-13 can be a lot of fun. EAST1-4 can be fun with some very minor tweaks. Both are pretty easy, so depends on what kind of challenge your group is looking for. |
| #4AlphastreamSep 14, 2009 17:34:26 | CORE1-13, Fate of Camp 15, is a really good mod. It has some good RP and player choice opportunities, and is not particularly hard. It is a good mod for new players. WATE1-5, Lost in the Fog, is a good fun mod, but is harder. It also starts a quest. It may be better for more experienced players, though I played on high. It might not be rough at Low (I have not read it). EAST1-4, Darkness in Delzimmer, can be fun. I've run it and had new players really like it. But, that one foe needs some adjustment (you could de-level defenses by 2-3, but raise attacks/damage by 1-2) and the story can use some tweaks. The first few encounters can be a bit of backdrop vs. engaging. There is a thread on this board where some players discussed how they made changes to improve upon that. MINI1-1, Stirring the Embers, is 2-rounds, but is worth considering. It is ideal for players that will want to play in the future (vs those trying it out and who may not come back) as it starts a mini campaign. The plot starts a bit slowly and has some repetitive combats, but ends with a bang both story and play-wise. TYMA1-5, From One Dwarf to Another, is a good adventure, though some found one fight to be difficult (there is a thread on this forum). TYMA has one of the better consistent regional setting aspects, so it can be good to encourage players to play the TYMAs so they can get a sense of the region and then run more in the future. Finally, ADCP1-1 is for public locations only and thus hard to play for those that have not attended conventions. It can be run at all current tiers (1-4 included) and has a good story, good setting, good NPCs, and then a competitive atmosphere with a difficulty the PCs likely get to choose. I have run it for new players and had it be challenging at the simplest level, and it can then challenge more experienced groups playing at the 1-4 tier. It could make an awesome adventure for a gaming store to run as an all-day thing, such that the table that scores highest gets a prize. If I had to pick one, it would be CORE1-13. If I had to pick two, the next would be either WATE1-5 or ADCP1-1. |
| #5sdrowsfognikSep 15, 2009 1:09:16 | Here's another vote for CORE1-13 "The Fate of Camp 15." I just ran this last weekend, for a mix of some of my regular players, and some I haven't DMed for before, and had a pretty positive response. Maybe Spoilers here? It's location is nice, being a trading hub located where it's at, you can easily work in a reason for PCs heading there either by land or sea, and easily plot out a course from there to the next adventure if you were so inclined to minimize the impact of "Realms Hopping." The feeling of the city is nice and offers some RP opportunity if you have the time and inclination. Similarly if you want, you can spend some time in RP after the PCs meet with their "boss" to give them something to think about for a decision they have to make later. It has a lot of free-form, and out-of-the box possibilities in it, which are nice and players generally enjoy, and the ability to choose from two very different outcomes, and as for me I love CSI-style mysteries! :D As for the combats, I'd have to disagree about their difficulty. I found them to be quite challenging. I ran for a 3rd level genasi shieldmage, a 2nd level 1/2 elf valor bard, a 2nd (I think?) level genasi taclord, and 1st level minotaur barbarian. They were all pretty well optimized and confidant (the shieldmage in particular was very well-built and had a +2 weapon and a +2 armor), so they played up, and wound up almost wiping twice, even with two healers and some really smart and skillfull players. There are some pretty strong control aspects and great synergies written into the combats that can be used by the DM to vicious effect. So if you want an easy mod for your guys I'd steer clear, but if your players enjoy a challenge and an interesting story, this is definitely one of my new favorite adventures. |
| #6KeithricSep 15, 2009 9:00:23 | I'll admit, me thinking it was easy may have been colored by the DM rolling badly or the monsters just having a low attack bonus. Did it with a table of level 1s, my paladin didn't spend a surge the entire module - though I'd have spent _one_ I'll admit if not for a Beacon of Hope the cleric cast in one fight when I was down 7 or so. And I sanctioned all over the place (Valorous, Majestic Halo, Ardent + Challenge, etc). That said, I do remember a few people got bloodied in the first combat due to the area effects and them refusing to disperse... yeah, the monster types for both combats could actually do serious damage thinking about it. It's just that +4 to AC vs. AC 20, sometimes 22, really nullified a lot of the problem. Either way, CORE1-13 was the first module I did at Gen Con, had a great DM, wonderful party, had a bucket of fun with the module and it's my first and primary suggestion. |
| #7Mind_Flayer_MonkSep 15, 2009 9:43:57 |
I ran this and my PCs didn't have too much trouble with it. However, at the convention I was at, I heard a few tables saying "its a death trap." |
| #8AlphastreamSep 15, 2009 12:20:32 | I'm surprised by that comment. You sure it wasn't a different module? |
| #9sdrowsfognikSep 15, 2009 14:06:09 | WARNING! CORE1-13 Combat Spoilers The first combat isn't too bad, although starting out the encounter with a burst 2 in 10 area attack at +7 vrs Reflex for Immobilized (save ends), is great, especially if you can get the party's defender in the burst. The caster also has a recharging burst 2 in 10 attack for dazed and decent damage, and at +7 versus Fortitude hitting with it shouldn't be a problem. The Slitherers should hang out near the Marsh Mystic for a bit, getting bonuses to hit and targeting softies with their Javelins, the Mystic can alternate between making the defender useless and harassing others, and the Bruiser and the Hunter keep everybody busy and off of the ranged guys. It can be a fun fight if you think on your feet, but not too terribly difficult. Once the Slitherers are out of Javelins, they're not much of a threat. As a side note whenever the Mystic didn't have his spell recharged I had him take a full defense and stay out at range instead of having him come in and put himself at risk to be completely ineffective with his spear. I also made whichever player was rolling the "hottest" roll my recharge for me. >:D
The second fight is definitely the toughest. The Collectors and the Savages all have attacks that deal ongoing poison. The savages can even toss their javelins, move in, and use their minor action tail attack to give two different characters ongoing damage in one turn. After that, the Magus (who should delay until after the Collectors and Savages have gone) can area burst 3 to give everybody vulnerable 5 poison - +7 versus Fortitude hits pretty much everybody at levels 1-4, then he can minor action to slow and move the defender. After the first round, a large chunk of the party could have ongoing 10 poison and vulnerability 5 to all the poison attacks of the monsters! This can very quickly drop the party. The Magus is pretty disgusting. If the defender isn't taking the ongoing poison damage anymore, he should use his poison blood and corrupt poison each turn to slide and slow the defender, hopefully making him useless for the fight. The savage wanders around giving saving throw penalties, swinging his club, and stinging with his tail to poison anybody that gets out of the ongoing damage, and the Collectors should be targeting characters that allready have ongoing poison damage (again, delay if you need to) to swing at +9 versus Fort (would hit a level 4, con 20 fighter, with a +2 neckslot item on a roll on a 12, almost any other character on a single digit roll) for tiny damage and huge Blinded (save ends). Don't try to do damage with the collectors, as their blinding attack is so much better. The only time they should ever even think of using End Strike would be if everyone on the board was allready Poisoned and Blinded. The crocodile doesn't contribute much to this fight except being a wall and a possible distraction. This fight is HUGELY impacted by DM tactics, but with a little bit of thought can definitely be one of the toughest fights in the 1-4 range.
The last fight is another dangerous one. There's lots of baddies, they're spread out, and they should all spread out even more on their turns. Lots of Halflings, and even the minions have Second Chance. They should all be scattering and using all the trees and terrain to provide cover and concealment and whatnot for themselves, and making ranged attacks. Even the Human Mercs should be moving away and using their crossbows until forced into melee, just remember to scatter, and make the PCs chase you. The players will probably try to focus fire on the boss, which is good because in my opinion he's not the biggest threat. He is a danger, and is another one that can slow at range to keep the party's meat out of the fight for a while, but while the PCs focus on him the Slingers can decimate the casters and ranged attackers in the party. Hiding in the terrain to try to setup stealth and combat advantage and waiting for their Stone Rain to recharge, which is devastating, especially with CA. |
| #10KeithricSep 15, 2009 18:03:58 | Hmm, my group avoided the second combat by talking, and talking put us in a pretty good situation for the last fight too. I'm not sure how hard it is to do that, but that 2nd combat sure does sound difficult.
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| #11Madfox11Sep 16, 2009 3:27:15 | I ran CORE1-13 at a local game day. None of the tables ever fought that second fight. Which does not mean, that the remaining two are not dangerous. One PC did die, but the player admitted that was more his own mistake and a bit of bad luck then anything. Standing on front, bloodied, with an AC of 13 after having just released a ****-load of damage on one of the opponents was a bad idea ;) |
| #12CrodocileSep 16, 2009 3:39:12 |
I played in this adventure once, and I ran it once; and both times the PC's talked to the second group of lizardmen rather than fighting them. Both times we finished the mod early, so we reran the encounter as a combat just for fun. It's actually a really cool and potentially tough fight, but the way it's set up in the mod I doubt many heroic PC's will actually fight with them. |
| #13Keith53Sep 16, 2009 5:51:03 | One table I DMed of CORE1-13 waded into the second combat (more mercanary than heroic) and had to retreat licking their wounds and carrying off the dead defender. Keith |
| #14Magicstar1Sep 16, 2009 6:28:09 |
I still blame the DM but it might have helped to either spend my AP to down the artillery or to Second Wind. Otherwise if the Bard would have hit with his interupt daily I would have still been alive. Best would still have been if the DM decided not to target me with 2 but just with 1 attack ;) Back on topic: I liked the adventure and despite the fact we had a hard time in the combats I don't think it was impossible. The roleplay was quite fun. All in all a nice and well written adventure. |
| #15AlphastreamSep 16, 2009 23:35:30 | Right! I forgot about that option. Our table had not fought that second encounter, so that makes sense. Here's to less tough 1-4 tier mods! |
| #16tancreadSep 17, 2009 6:32:56 |
There are ton of less tough mods, having a few floating around with tough fights keeps people on their toes. I am not infavor of making every mod a brute, but I do think there is a developing entitlement mentality going around about difficulty. Players who always play on high are the rule around my area, I think they should at least get a bloody nose for this if they are really what should be a low group. I liked the fights in 1-13 a lot, I think they are tough, but very doable even be a group over reaching if they are careful. The players can take a real beating, but the odds of a TPK are not very high. |
| #17BigfluffylemonSep 17, 2009 7:46:19 |
When I played Core1-13, we didn't fight the second combat, and with a party of mostly 2s playing up, we absolutely walked it. It did help that we had a rogue and my sorcerer working well in concert so in both encounters we'd taken out one enemy before it had even taken a turn ;) In my local area almost invariably everyone plays up all the time. Only recently with the new wave of mods has that given us a 'bloody nose' so to speak (although Dale1-1 on high with all brand new level 1 PCs - not advised either). |
| #18matthewjhansonSep 17, 2009 21:00:43 | Thanks for the recommendations. Core 1-13 sounds like it will work well. |
| #19gomeztooSep 18, 2009 15:00:51 | I don't recall any party that fought the second combat... Gomez |
| #20bgibbonsSep 18, 2009 16:34:44 | SPOILERS for CORE1-3, The Fate of Camp 15 I don't recall any party that fought the second combat... That's pretty clearly not what the module assumes, however. This isn't a "you can fight or you can do a skill challenge" encounter, it's "the PCs fight first and ask questions later, but if the group strongly prefers to negotiate from the beginning, you can replace this combat with an ad hoc 12 success skill challenge instead, if you want." I really would have preferred the author spend a little more time on that encounter, since I think a lot of (genre-savvy) players are going to try to negotiate first and unless a DM essentially prepares on their own the encounter that should have been there, that has a high risk of turning into "Okay, somebody roll Diplomacy. <roll> Okay, do it again. <roll> Just keep rolling until I tell you to stop. Wait, any Charisma-based character who's trained in Diplomacy automatically makes the DC? Never mind; let's just move on..." On a meta-game level, this encounter is the toughest combat at low-tier, which means that there's going to be a really big swing between the group that makes a bunch of trivial skill checks and the one that fights the combat, both in the overall challenge level of the adventure and play length. On another note, I think L1-4 authors need to be a bit more careful about secondary attacks and ongoing damage. Encounter 1 has a creature with a poisoned javelin--if the javelin hits, the poison does a secondary attack that deals 2d6+3 if it hits; Encounter 2 has a creature that gives you vulnerability 5 to poison along with creatures that give you ongoing 5 poison. In each case, it would be very easy for a 1st level character who goes unconscious to quickly hit negative bloodied: in Encounter 1, they drop because of the javelin and then take 10 more damage on average from the secondary attack (or worse; the 1st level ranger at my table went unconscious from the first attack and was critted by the second); in Encounter 2, they drop because of other damage and then take an unavoidable ongoing 10 on their turn. I have no problem with killing PCs, but killing downed 1st level PCs should usually be because the DM deliberately chose to do so, not because they fell unconscious with an unavoidable attack coming or enough ongoing damage to kill them automatically when their turn starts. |
| #21tancreadSep 18, 2009 19:09:56 |
I know this isn't the lawful good answer, but I just forget to remind them to take ongoing when they are down. If they remember I will find some way to keep it from killing them. I know, I know, it isn't right, I am bad, but I won't kill a downed first level pc on ongoing. |
| #22ferol_debtor_of_tormSep 18, 2009 19:45:52 | This is coming from same guy who talks about giving a bloody nose to people playing up with lower level characters? You have to make up your mind do you want players to feel the danger or not? |
| #23tancreadSep 18, 2009 21:51:48 |
As I said in the bloody nose discussion, I abide by the don't hit them when they are down rule, it seems to be a pretty solid rule among the local DMs and I don't want to be the one DM who breaks that convention. That said, I am quite happy to put you on the ground, which is how you get the bloody nose. I would carry on the ongoing if the level one was a veteran player in a veteran group of players, they know what to do. I would ignore it if the player was new, dying due to an ongoing five isn't really the sort of game introduction I want to give someone. Double standard, yep, I guess it is, but it isn't newbies who have decided there is no risk in LFR. |
| #24gomeztooSep 19, 2009 14:47:45 |
Why would we fight? even my Tempus paladin would not run into a lizard village and start slaughtering. I mean, my wizard even tried to diplomize the first encounter... (didn't succeed, and I didn't expect it to, but I wanted to try anyway... and I got to use a ritual.) Gomez |
| #25bgibbonsSep 20, 2009 10:02:49 | Why would we fight? even my Tempus paladin would not run into a lizard village and start slaughtering. I mean, my wizard even tried to diplomize the first encounter... (didn't succeed, and I didn't expect it to, but I wanted to try anyway... and I got to use a ritual.) I agree with you (and my table did the same), but what I'm saying is that the module explicitly assumes you're going to fight, leaving it up to the DM to ad hoc a 12 success skill challenge if the players try to negotiate first. I would have preferred a fully fleshed-out skill challenge, since it seems likely to me that many tables will go that route. This was all the more strange as the author included a few paragraphs (and a story award!) just to cover the contingency that the players choose to turn on their employers in Encounter 5 and kill everyone in Camp 15, which strikes me as a rather low probability event, far more unlikely than choosing to negotiate with the lizardmen. |
| #26BigfluffylemonSep 21, 2009 3:08:33 | Perhaps it was the order we chose to do things, but on my table we saw no incentive whatsoever to fight the lizardmen. We had evidence of the plot, caught the perpetrator, made him confess, so why go blundering into the lizard camp and attack? Our DM ran it pretty well, so I didn't realise the skill-challenge was so ad-hoc, but I can't imagine many tables would choose to fight. |
| #27CarlTSep 21, 2009 4:52:59 |
I am considering running either Core1-13 or East1-4 next week as we have a new player joining the group. After reading this thread, I expect I will plan for the possibility that they will indeed negotiate with the lizardmen in the second encounter.
But I have to ask (spoiler): Those of you who say that almost all groups negotiate rather than fighting: Are you actually enforcing the fact that the text specifies that the Lizardmen only speak Draconic? Or rather, that the chief speaks only a few words of pidgin Common but the negotiations would really have to be done in Draconic? Is it really the case that 90+ percent (based on this thread) of the parties out there have a player who speaks draconic? And how are you dealing with the fact that all communication would have to go through that character - or do all of your characters speak Draconic? That aside, I keep stumbling over the mis-use of the word 'coster' to describe the merchants. Obviously the author wanted a new word besides merchant, but afaik 'coster' refers specifically to fruit and vegetable cart venders (costermongers) and in fact in that word, the 'coster' means 'apple' (costard: An English variety of cooking apple) and monger refers to the salesmanship. But that's a minor point of etymology that probably doesn't bug anyone but me.... Carl |
| #28KeithricSep 21, 2009 7:56:38 | We had someone who spoke draconic in our party - they weren't that charismatic, but we were feeding them what to say and they were translating so we were allowed to assist. We also did things like Healed a sickly lizardfolk, shattered and burnt one of the hated symbols, etc. Especially since the DCs are like... 10... or something, a couple That'll Do's, some BS, and even untrained and oddball things will slide in today's skill challenges. |
| #29matt12Sep 21, 2009 23:50:58 | I had a lot of fun and I think the players did too when I ran Core 1-13. ***Possible Spoilers*** (Comment is sanitized to try to avoid spoiler.) * * * What I think I had fun doing was playing the person the party was escourting, as the module suggested. Middle management, know it all, know nothing, IE. a BIG jerk. Before the first real fight had a chance to start I had the whole party about ready to kill him themselves. Now if a certain person would have shown up right then with his offer, the party would have jumped at it. |
| #30heroicsergeSep 22, 2009 0:56:17 | What I think I had fun doing was playing the person the party was escourting, as the module suggested. Middle management, know it all, know nothing, IE. a BIG jerk. Before the first real fight had a chance to start I had the whole party about ready to kill him themselves. I think this might not be the best advice to a DM on how to run an entertaining session for their players. While it certainly sounds like you had the time of your life, most people who seek out heroic fantasy roleplaying would rather spend their precious leisure time doing something heroic that makes their characters the center of an exiting story. I have not played this module but I have seen the trope of the incredibly annoying NPC protected by DM fiat before and I can't recall it ever being anything but painful for the players. |
| #31CailteSep 22, 2009 3:33:10 | Now that I've had a chance to not only play it, but run it several times I highly recomend AGLA1-5 Silver Lining - a fun fight, a challenging fight and a pretty standard one, a good skill challenge and some awesome RP opportunities. |
| #32matt12Sep 22, 2009 8:41:08 | What I think I had fun doing was playing the person the party was escourting, as the module suggested. Middle management, know it all, know nothing, IE. a BIG jerk. Before the first real fight had a chance to start I had the whole party about ready to kill him themselves. What's nice about this mod, is that the incredibly annoying NPC is not protected by DM fiat. The mod is very open ended and written with lots of choices for the players to choose from and do. Plus, the mod has a couple other named NPC, besides the standard un-named ones that run around, that the PC can interact with. When I ran this mod, it was these NPC that had the most effect on the players choices, not the one that 'hired' them. REMEMBER, I'm trying to talk without giving away the mod. So, while it might seem that the PC don't have a choice, they actually do in this mod. Then there was also the fact that I knew most of the people playing the mod and was able to tailor the NPCs actions to them and their characters.
Want to say this again: CORE 1-13 is very well written. Lots of choices/paths available for the PC to take. The fights are challenging and the skill challenges make sense. Plus there's lots of opportunities for roleplaying. |
| #33LOE_FreySep 22, 2009 12:31:48 | Possible SPOILERS
Having slot-0 this (Core1-13) and run it in 9 sessions at GenCon I saw tons of variety. Some groups did it out of order (I allowed it for fun). Encounter 2 is by far the most complicated, coming up with good rp options and helping the players with ideas can speed things up. I had more than 1 group attack humans in their own group, feed them poison, or have them fight the croc solo to prove their worth. I would definitely play up the race angle. Also I added a NPC in camp 15 he added to the RP and information. If you come up with something unique it will help. I would definitely suggest you find out what languages each player speak before the module. I have never had a group laugh as hard as when I used my dwarven NPC that was burring bodies interpret what he had heard about "pink skins" when their camp was attacked. What made it interesting is that the dwarf was a want-to-be pirate that spoke like a pirate. Because no one in the group could speak to the lizardmen 1 character had to use comprehend languages and listen to the dwarf. Because he learned from the dwarf he had to speak to the lizardmen as if he were a pirate because that is how he had heard the language spoken. I almost had to leave the table people were laughing so hard when he translated the justice his group would bring to the evildoers as the "pirate-diplomat." There is a good amount of RP room here and the idea for for final encounter is good but you have to really set it up early for a switch-sides option. Feel free to contact me off-board if you want more info on what I saw or how I adjusted anything. |