Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Bigfluffylemon Jul 06, 2009 7:50:25	So, I played WATE1-4 over the weekend, with my Waterdhavian half-elf who was following up on WATE1-3. Overall, our impression was that there were some good ideas in here, but the execution was somewhat lacking. Detailed feedback: Show The scene setting at the party we enjoyed. Fun and flavourful. The combat itself was ok, although very easy, although that was partly because we had three controllers in the party, who were able to keep the boars pretty much permanently immobilised, or otherwise unable to act, whilst zapping minions. The second combat, underwater, though, we didn't enjoy one little bit, I'm afraid. It didn't actually last too long (we had it all wrapped up in under an hour, the main reason being that we had all our dailies apart from one, used in fight one = 17 dailies in a 6 person party), but the main issue was the 3D aspect. 4E is not well set-up to handle 3D combat, and certainly the average play group with a battle-grid will struggle. Add in the current, and even more problematic was the fact that all the PCs were effectively large, since they were on large mounts, something that PCs are not used to, which really made life awkward. Add in the existence of several zones (on both sides) to try and track in 3D, and we were all thoroughly confused. The GM called the fight in the end, with just the wraith lord left, citing a headache from book-keeping every single monster in the combat being insubstantial with vulnerable-radiant, on top of the 3D issues. Overall we thought that the underwater combat was a fine idea, and flavourful, but a combination of the above factors made it very hard to enjoy. Uniquely for a 7-10 in my experience, we had two combats, which we knocked off in under an hour each, yet the mod still over-ran to five hours long; there were a total of six non-combat encounters (and only two of those were XP-giving), so four roleplay-only encounters. That's all well and good, I have no problem with there being roleplay in a mod(!), but it was just too much. There was a staggering amount of information being discovered and pieced together. Not only did it take a long time to deliver the info, it was quite hard to keep track without copious note-taking (and there were constant pauses, where we all tried to remember exactly who was who). But the most egregious thing was that a lot of the information was essentially useless. There were a number of red herrings (the catering company, decorators, the temple of Gond), and we were sitting there, thinking of various ways to investigate and going down blind alleys. Of course, we could have gone straight to the wreck, and maybe our GM could have made it more explicit that that is what we were expected to do, but short of saying 'you have all these leads but only one will get you anywhere; come back and do everything else later', it wasn't clear that it was the correct choice. The author has clearly written a very intricate plot, judging by this and WATE1-3, but I'm afraid we just couldn't take in all the detail, and as such we rather lost the wood for the trees, and couldn't appreciate the story as much as we felt we should. This sounds very critical, and as I said, it's not all meant to be: there were some really good ideas here (I did enjoy the possession skill challenge, for RP reasons), but I don't feel they were presented to the players as well as they could have been. Caveat as always that this is just one play experience, so people's experiences may well vary, and I'd be interested to know if others enjoyed it. But sadly, at the end of the mod, our GM requested never to run it again, and there weren't any objections from the table.
#2 Nutation Jul 06, 2009 17:19:19	I've run this twice. On pacing and investigation: I guess I've instinctively cut off the dead-end leads that players might follow early on. Pushing them toward Mistshore leaves time for more interesting things such as - what do to about the ghosts. One group got it quickly, the other worked at it for a while and then got a huge hint. I made several handouts for this that should have been provided by the author. I made one for each set of new rules, throng and underwater combat. (Afterthought: I could add a page of mounted combat rules from the DMG.) I made one with the skull message, one describing the 3 honorees, and one summarizing the available info at the start of Encounter 5. And why does this module lack a map of the city? I stole the one out of WATE1-1. Encounter 5 doesn't seem to be a problem. It's much like investigation skill challenges in several other modules. Just keep it moving.
#3 ibixat Aug 04, 2009 3:36:15	questions about some combat issues, we just played this the other day and had a good time, as odd as I find this my warforged fighter has played all the waterdeep mods except for 1-5, my bard has manged none so far =P On to the questions about the combat questions about the second combat I understand bursts are cubes, but when mounted how does that work, the rules in DMG make me believe if I burst 1 when mounted it goes out 1 square each from my mount's locations, since I occupy the same squares, meaning a burst 1 goes from 8 squares hit to 12 squares hit, or in 3d space from 26 cubes hit (the cubes around me) to 56 cubes(wow) the cubes around my mounted 2x2x2 space. That was how we read it works and it allowed me to have the most ridiculous come and get it I've ever seen so far, it was quite entertaining. Anyway that was all I really wondered about, we had rented sharks and I even went so far as to buy impenetrable barding for mine to make sure I didn't lose my deposit (I intended to pick up a mount in paragon anyway)
#4 sithobi1 Aug 04, 2009 3:46:53	Yeah, that's pretty much how it works.
#5 ughman Aug 10, 2009 1:28:54	I ran the adventure, and I believe our table had a good time. It was a relatively complicated adventure (and therefore relatively difficult to run) but I liked it as a change of pace from the standard hack & slash modules. In an investigative adventure though I believe pacing will vary more from group to group. spoilers contained about plot, combat, etc. Investigation-adventures are some of the most difficult adventures to write, run, and play. I think red herrings should come up. Not every thing at a crime scene is a clue that can lead to cracking the caste; part of investigating is following would-be leads to dead ends and turning around. I don't feel that that is a bad thing to have in a investigative adventure. As for 3D combat- yep still a pain in 4e, but it's going to come up. The module put in reminders in the terrain section for aquatic combat modifiers- I don't think anything else was necessary, nor did the players at my table.
#6 kenobi65 Aug 10, 2009 10:25:06	I ran it over the weekend. Overall, a very enjoyable module for the players, though I'll echo some of the concerns already posted. Spoilers about the combats follow: Show It's good that there's only 2 combats, given that both of them are complicated. That said...that's a flaw, too. Having *two* combats with complicated / new situations and rules makes this one kind of a pain in the rear for the DM. I applaud the writer for crafting something other than a straight-up hack-and-slash fight, but there's an awful lot packed into this one module. I would have rather seen one "wild" combat, and one that was a little more "normal".