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Barbarian Stat Spread

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragon9
Dec 16, 2008 16:30:57 So I was making a Minotaur barbarian and trying to work out his stat spread. I wanted to get some opinions from others on the subject.

What i have ultimately ended up with (post stat bumps) is: 18/16/14/8/10/13

I originally had his Dex at 10 since I figured I'd take some armor prof feats. But then after thinking about it more, if I went to plate, that would be 3 out of 6 available feats through Heroic tier. Now currently with Hide and a 14 Dex his AC is 15.

Would it more worthwhile to blow a feat on just chainmail and reduce the Dex to 10? I understand his Reflex defense will suck. Well, suck more than it already does. I took the Weapon Prof (Execution Axe) feat at 1st so that wouldn't be until at least 2nd level, meaning having to get through 1st level with a 13 AC with hide only. If that's reduced to 10 then I can boost Con to 18 also and have 1 point left over to throw in somewhere. (maybe make Dex 11)

Thoughts?
#2
amysrevenge
Dec 16, 2008 19:27:00 I went with a 14 Dex on my Barb for four reasons. I went with Fullblade rather than Executioner's Axe though, so two of my reasons don't apply in your case.

1) Better AC without a feat. Still a point or two behind heavy armor, but you keep full speed too.
2) Better Initiative to get in more first-round charges
3) Easily qualify for Heavy Blade Opportunity at level 11
4) Qualify (with only one attribute bump to Dex at level 18) for Heavy Blade Mastery at level 21.

My warforged Barb, with his similar stat bumps, has pretty much identical stats to yours.
#3
gomeztoo
Dec 18, 2008 2:23:10 Keep in mind that R&D has indicated that they are changing barbarian to give them some incentive to stick to light armor. So dropping Dex for heavy armor may bite you in the behind when PHBII comes out.

Or it may not... since I don't know what the changes are.

Note btw that you can also up Int instead of Dex...

Gomez
#4
mr_industrialpants
Dec 23, 2008 20:34:09 After looking at a few things I would probably construct a build like this:

Str 18 (9 pts, +2 racial)
Con 14 (2 pts, +2 racial)
Dex 16 (9 pts)
Int 8 (0 pts)
Wis 10 (0 pts)
Cha 12 (2 pts)

This way you have a starting AC of 16 and a Reflex of 13. While it's not great (the AC) it is better than what it could be (15, 14, etc...).

The Barbarian is one of the most interesting classes I think for building. Do you try and protect yourself or build up a massive ammount of hit points instead?
#5
Dragon9
Dec 24, 2008 10:18:10 Good question. The difference between a 15 and 16 AC probably isn't too significant. As a striker I don't want to stick myself in the middle of things as a general rule anyway. That's the defender's job. I would plan on being more mobile, sticking to the outside and picking off enemies 1-on-1, flanking with another player, and charging after enemy stragglers. I'd rely more on my hp and my Recuperating Strike to provide an HP buffer, which is where the high Con comes into play since the temp HP are based on your Con mod.

Then again, my Dwarf fighter did fine with a 16 AC through levels 1-4, constantly charging into the middle of enemies.

EDIT: also forgot to add that the Rageblood Vigor barbarian build has Con as the rider stat on powers. The backstory idea I have for my Minotaur Barb fits the Rageblood better than the Thaneborn would (which will have Cha based riders if my suspicions are correct).
#6
mr_industrialpants
Dec 24, 2008 12:00:58 If that's the case your first stat array is the better option then, especially if you're wielding an Executioner's Axe (good call on that...being able to reroll a 1 or a 2). You'll already have the Con requirement for Axe Mastery.

What stats will you bump at each level? I was thinking maybe Str and Cha as this will boost any Thaneborn powers that are made, and also boost the all important Will Defense that undead love to use so much to knock us prone.
#7
Dragon9
Dec 24, 2008 15:42:40
If that's the case your first stat array is the better option then, especially if you're wielding an Executioner's Axe (good call on that...being able to reroll a 1 or a 2). You'll already have the Con requirement for Axe Mastery.

What stats will you bump at each level? I was thinking maybe Str and Cha as this will boost any Thaneborn powers that are made, and also boost the all important Will Defense that undead love to use so much to knock us prone.

Primarily Str & Con. Str for the to hit and damage (obviously) and the Con for HP, surges, and the Rageblood riders. One of the encounter powers gives you +1 to damage for every adjacent enemy, but if you're a rageblood barb then it for every enemy within Con squares of you. I don't plan on takign any thaneborn powers. But I can't say for sure until the book comes out.
#8
shadowtiger
Dec 30, 2008 11:43:49 If you are going to pump STR and CON (as most barbarians will), starting out with a high(er) DEX is OK at the beginning, but has diminishing returns as you level.

The masterwork heavy armors increase their extra ACV bonuses faster than hide armor does, which means the feat that you spend to pickup Chainmail pays good dividends over time.

If good incentives come along with PHB2 (CON to AC while wearing light armor, maybe?), I'd be willing to ditch the Chainmail at that time.
#9
josephkell
Jan 04, 2009 17:46:07
If good incentives come along with PHB2 (CON to AC while wearing light armor, maybe?), I'd be willing to ditch the Chainmail at that time.

I sure hope they don't do that... It would just be way too good. It is basically the same thing (high AC) with no cost.

Although the Druid seems to have an option for that.

What I would rather see for Barbarians is something like "While wearing light or no armor, Barbarians add their Constitution/Charisma modifier to their surge value." With Constitution for Rageblood Vigor and Charisma for Thraneborn. However that might be way better than higher AC, since a high surge value already covers up for weak "NADs."
#10
Bigfluffylemon
Jan 12, 2009 9:54:13
I sure hope they don't do that... It would just be way too good. It is basically the same thing (high AC) with no cost.

Although the Druid seems to have an option for that.

What I would rather see for Barbarians is something like "While wearing light or no armor, Barbarians add their Constitution/Charisma modifier to their surge value." With Constitution for Rageblood Vigor and Charisma for Thraneborn. However that might be way better than higher AC, since a high surge value already covers up for weak "NADs."

Con to AC while wearing light armor seems like an incredibly ham-fisted fix. I hope it is not the case.

I expect to see a damage bonus for wearing light armor. I expect there will also be lots of feats that will increase the temp HPs gained, etc.
#11
ferol_debtor_of_torm
Jan 12, 2009 18:25:31 Warden has access to either con or wis to AC while in light armor.

It seems one of Primal's themes is getting a nonstandard stat to AC and very possible for barbarian's to get that feature as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragon9 Dec 16, 2008 16:30:57	So I was making a Minotaur barbarian and trying to work out his stat spread. I wanted to get some opinions from others on the subject. What i have ultimately ended up with (post stat bumps) is: 18/16/14/8/10/13 I originally had his Dex at 10 since I figured I'd take some armor prof feats. But then after thinking about it more, if I went to plate, that would be 3 out of 6 available feats through Heroic tier. Now currently with Hide and a 14 Dex his AC is 15. Would it more worthwhile to blow a feat on just chainmail and reduce the Dex to 10? I understand his Reflex defense will suck. Well, suck more than it already does. I took the Weapon Prof (Execution Axe) feat at 1st so that wouldn't be until at least 2nd level, meaning having to get through 1st level with a 13 AC with hide only. If that's reduced to 10 then I can boost Con to 18 also and have 1 point left over to throw in somewhere. (maybe make Dex 11) Thoughts?
#2 amysrevenge Dec 16, 2008 19:27:00	I went with a 14 Dex on my Barb for four reasons. I went with Fullblade rather than Executioner's Axe though, so two of my reasons don't apply in your case. 1) Better AC without a feat. Still a point or two behind heavy armor, but you keep full speed too. 2) Better Initiative to get in more first-round charges 3) Easily qualify for Heavy Blade Opportunity at level 11 4) Qualify (with only one attribute bump to Dex at level 18) for Heavy Blade Mastery at level 21. My warforged Barb, with his similar stat bumps, has pretty much identical stats to yours.
#3 gomeztoo Dec 18, 2008 2:23:10	Keep in mind that R&D has indicated that they are changing barbarian to give them some incentive to stick to light armor. So dropping Dex for heavy armor may bite you in the behind when PHBII comes out. Or it may not... since I don't know what the changes are. Note btw that you can also up Int instead of Dex... Gomez
#4 mr_industrialpants Dec 23, 2008 20:34:09	After looking at a few things I would probably construct a build like this: Str 18 (9 pts, +2 racial) Con 14 (2 pts, +2 racial) Dex 16 (9 pts) Int 8 (0 pts) Wis 10 (0 pts) Cha 12 (2 pts) This way you have a starting AC of 16 and a Reflex of 13. While it's not great (the AC) it is better than what it could be (15, 14, etc...). The Barbarian is one of the most interesting classes I think for building. Do you try and protect yourself or build up a massive ammount of hit points instead?
#5 Dragon9 Dec 24, 2008 10:18:10	Good question. The difference between a 15 and 16 AC probably isn't too significant. As a striker I don't want to stick myself in the middle of things as a general rule anyway. That's the defender's job. I would plan on being more mobile, sticking to the outside and picking off enemies 1-on-1, flanking with another player, and charging after enemy stragglers. I'd rely more on my hp and my Recuperating Strike to provide an HP buffer, which is where the high Con comes into play since the temp HP are based on your Con mod. Then again, my Dwarf fighter did fine with a 16 AC through levels 1-4, constantly charging into the middle of enemies. EDIT: also forgot to add that the Rageblood Vigor barbarian build has Con as the rider stat on powers. The backstory idea I have for my Minotaur Barb fits the Rageblood better than the Thaneborn would (which will have Cha based riders if my suspicions are correct).
#6 mr_industrialpants Dec 24, 2008 12:00:58	If that's the case your first stat array is the better option then, especially if you're wielding an Executioner's Axe (good call on that...being able to reroll a 1 or a 2). You'll already have the Con requirement for Axe Mastery. What stats will you bump at each level? I was thinking maybe Str and Cha as this will boost any Thaneborn powers that are made, and also boost the all important Will Defense that undead love to use so much to knock us prone.
#7 Dragon9 Dec 24, 2008 15:42:40	If that's the case your first stat array is the better option then, especially if you're wielding an Executioner's Axe (good call on that...being able to reroll a 1 or a 2). You'll already have the Con requirement for Axe Mastery. What stats will you bump at each level? I was thinking maybe Str and Cha as this will boost any Thaneborn powers that are made, and also boost the all important Will Defense that undead love to use so much to knock us prone. Primarily Str & Con. Str for the to hit and damage (obviously) and the Con for HP, surges, and the Rageblood riders. One of the encounter powers gives you +1 to damage for every adjacent enemy, but if you're a rageblood barb then it for every enemy within Con squares of you. I don't plan on takign any thaneborn powers. But I can't say for sure until the book comes out.
#8 shadowtiger Dec 30, 2008 11:43:49	If you are going to pump STR and CON (as most barbarians will), starting out with a high(er) DEX is OK at the beginning, but has diminishing returns as you level. The masterwork heavy armors increase their extra ACV bonuses faster than hide armor does, which means the feat that you spend to pickup Chainmail pays good dividends over time. If good incentives come along with PHB2 (CON to AC while wearing light armor, maybe?), I'd be willing to ditch the Chainmail at that time.
#9 josephkell Jan 04, 2009 17:46:07	If good incentives come along with PHB2 (CON to AC while wearing light armor, maybe?), I'd be willing to ditch the Chainmail at that time. I sure hope they don't do that... It would just be way too good. It is basically the same thing (high AC) with no cost. Although the Druid seems to have an option for that. What I would rather see for Barbarians is something like "While wearing light or no armor, Barbarians add their Constitution/Charisma modifier to their surge value." With Constitution for Rageblood Vigor and Charisma for Thraneborn. However that might be way better than higher AC, since a high surge value already covers up for weak "NADs."
#10 Bigfluffylemon Jan 12, 2009 9:54:13	I sure hope they don't do that... It would just be way too good. It is basically the same thing (high AC) with no cost. Although the Druid seems to have an option for that. What I would rather see for Barbarians is something like "While wearing light or no armor, Barbarians add their Constitution/Charisma modifier to their surge value." With Constitution for Rageblood Vigor and Charisma for Thraneborn. However that might be way better than higher AC, since a high surge value already covers up for weak "NADs." Con to AC while wearing light armor seems like an incredibly ham-fisted fix. I hope it is not the case. I expect to see a damage bonus for wearing light armor. I expect there will also be lots of feats that will increase the temp HPs gained, etc.
#11 ferol_debtor_of_torm Jan 12, 2009 18:25:31	Warden has access to either con or wis to AC while in light armor. It seems one of Primal's themes is getting a nonstandard stat to AC and very possible for barbarian's to get that feature as well.