Battlerager's in RPGA/LFR - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Battlerager's in RPGA/LFR

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
JasonCarrier
Dec 03, 2008 11:23:20 As the rule states:

"Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or a close
attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your
Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved).
When you gain temporary hit points by hitting
with an attack that has the invigorating keyword,
those temporary hit points stack with any other temporary
hit points you already have."

Does this mean if I have (using +4 Con mod as example) 8 temp hp and am hit for 7 hp, I then have 5thp after?

According to the wording of the power, I do. However the DM is reading it differently.

What is the exact use and way this power works?
#2
ferol_debtor_of_torm
Dec 03, 2008 11:53:28
As the rule states:

"Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or a close
attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your
Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved).
When you gain temporary hit points by hitting
with an attack that has the invigorating keyword,
those temporary hit points stack with any other temporary
hit points you already have."

Does this mean if I have (using +4 Con mod as example) 8 temp hp and am hit for 7 hp, I then have 5thp after?

According to the wording of the power, I do. However the DM is reading it differently.

What is the exact use and way this power works?

Do you have improved vigor as well? If so, yes you would have 5 temps after being hit.
#3
kshaver
Dec 03, 2008 12:02:15 Notice the passage you quoted has two sentences. One for your battlerage vigor class feature and the other regarding invigorating powers. Your battlerage vigor and invigorating powers are two seperate entities. battlerage vigor does not stack with existing temp hit points while your invigorating powers do (only if you are a BV fighter of course). In your example barring any additional feats you would only have 4 temp hit points after the attack, because you would be dropped to 1 temp hit point and then gain 4 non-stacking hit points from your BV class feature.
#4
asoka
Dec 03, 2008 12:03:02 Incorrect. You'd have 4 temp HP at the end of it all. the following is my understanding of how this runs.

For reference, Temp HP are dealt with on p293 of the Players Handbook. In particular, the bullet point "Don't Add Together" on p294.

Temp HP are a seperate pool of Hit Points, which do not stack with each other and are subtracted from first. The Battlerager power is different in that it allows you to stack the Temp Hit Points you get *when you attack with an Invigorating power* to your already accumulated Temp Hit Points. The first part of the Battlerager power though - about getting THP's every time you're hit, those don't stack.

So...

I have 8 temp hit points.
I am hit for 7 damage, which yields 1 temp hit point left.
Now I gain 4 Temp Hit Points (my con mod) due to Battlerager Vigor.
Since 4 temp Hit Points is more than my current total of 1 temp hit points, my new total is 4THP.

If I then hit an opponent with an Invigorating power I would add 4 Temp Hit Points. The Battlerager adds those 4 to his current 4 for a new total of 8 THP.

To continue the example,
I am hit again for 3 points damage, yielding a new total of 5 THP.
I gain 4 Temp Hit points (because I was hit), but this time my current Temp Hit Point total is greater than this, and these points aren't coming from an Invigorating power, so I am still at 5 Temp Hit Points. They don't stack.

Hopefully that made sense.
#5
JasonCarrier
Dec 03, 2008 13:04:45
Incorrect. You'd have 4 temp HP at the end of it all. the following is my understanding of how this runs.

For reference, Temp HP are dealt with on p293 of the Players Handbook. In particular, the bullet point "Don't Add Together" on p294.

Temp HP are a seperate pool of Hit Points, which do not stack with each other and are subtracted from first. The Battlerager power is different in that it allows you to stack the Temp Hit Points you get *when you attack with an Invigorating power* to your already accumulated Temp Hit Points. The first part of the Battlerager power though - about getting THP's every time you're hit, those don't stack.

So...

I have 8 temp hit points.
I am hit for 7 damage, which yields 1 temp hit point left.
Now I gain 4 Temp Hit Points (my con mod) due to Battlerager Vigor.
Since 4 temp Hit Points is more than my current total of 1 temp hit points, my new total is 4THP.

If I then hit an opponent with an Invigorating power I would add 4 Temp Hit Points. The Battlerager adds those 4 to his current 4 for a new total of 8 THP.

To continue the example,
I am hit again for 3 points damage, yielding a new total of 5 THP.
I gain 4 Temp Hit points (because I was hit), but this time my current Temp Hit Point total is greater than this, and these points aren't coming from an Invigorating power, so I am still at 5 Temp Hit Points. They don't stack.

Hopefully that made sense.

It does, now what about other sources? Do they stack? Or would the max just be the highest?
#6
kshaver
Dec 03, 2008 13:18:47
It does, now what about other sources? Do they stack? Or would the max just be the highest?

No source of temporary hit points stack unless they explicitly state that they do.
#7
JasonCarrier
Dec 03, 2008 13:29:20
No source of temporary hit points stack unless they explicitly state that they do.

Ok, so I would have a pool given to me by an outside source, a pool given to me from vigor and a pool given to me from invigorating (that stack)?

Thank you for clearing alot of this up.
#8
kshaver
Dec 03, 2008 14:03:02
Ok, so I would have a pool given to me by an outside source, a pool given to me from vigor and a pool given to me from invigorating (that stack)?

Yes, but there is no reason to keep track of them in seperate pools. Just use the largest amount, and if you use an invigorating power while you still have some left then add those to it.

Lets say you are a dwarven battlerager with 20 con and the dwarven stoneblood feat:

You get hit in combat for 8 melee damage and lose those hit points, but gain 7 temporary hp (5 con+2 stoneblood).

Your cleric then uses an area power that gives everyone 5 temp hit points. You ignore those because you already have more and they do not stack.

You then hit with an invigorating power to gain 5 more that stack, you add those to your current 7 and you now have 12 temp hit points.

You get hit for 8 melee again, dropping you to 4 temp hit points, but giving you 7 temp hit points that do not stack. Since the 4 and the 7 do not stack you throw the 4 away and use the 7.
#9
asoka
Dec 03, 2008 14:16:53 Edit: KShaver responded in clearer fashion re: multiple pools.
#10
JasonCarrier
Dec 03, 2008 14:31:37
Yes, but there is no reason to keep track of them in seperate pools. Just use the largest amount, and if you use an invigorating power while you still have some left then add those to it.

Lets say you are a dwarven battlerager with 20 con and the dwarven stoneblood feat:

You get hit in combat for 8 melee damage and lose those hit points, but gain 7 temporary hp (5 con+2 stoneblood).

Your cleric then uses an area power that gives everyone 5 temp hit points. You ignore those because you already have more and they do not stack.

You then hit with an invigorating power to gain 5 more that stack, you add those to your current 7 and you now have 12 temp hit points.

You get hit for 8 melee again, dropping you to 4 temp hit points, but giving you 7 temp hit points that do not stack. Since the 4 and the 7 do not stack you throw the 4 away and use the 7.

Awesome. Thank you so much.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 JasonCarrier Dec 03, 2008 11:23:20	As the rule states: "Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or a close attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved). When you gain temporary hit points by hitting with an attack that has the invigorating keyword, those temporary hit points stack with any other temporary hit points you already have." Does this mean if I have (using +4 Con mod as example) 8 temp hp and am hit for 7 hp, I then have 5thp after? According to the wording of the power, I do. However the DM is reading it differently. What is the exact use and way this power works?
#2 ferol_debtor_of_torm Dec 03, 2008 11:53:28	As the rule states: "Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or a close attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved). When you gain temporary hit points by hitting with an attack that has the invigorating keyword, those temporary hit points stack with any other temporary hit points you already have." Does this mean if I have (using +4 Con mod as example) 8 temp hp and am hit for 7 hp, I then have 5thp after? According to the wording of the power, I do. However the DM is reading it differently. What is the exact use and way this power works? Do you have improved vigor as well? If so, yes you would have 5 temps after being hit.
#3 kshaver Dec 03, 2008 12:02:15	Notice the passage you quoted has two sentences. One for your battlerage vigor class feature and the other regarding invigorating powers. Your battlerage vigor and invigorating powers are two seperate entities. battlerage vigor does not stack with existing temp hit points while your invigorating powers do (only if you are a BV fighter of course). In your example barring any additional feats you would only have 4 temp hit points after the attack, because you would be dropped to 1 temp hit point and then gain 4 non-stacking hit points from your BV class feature.
#4 asoka Dec 03, 2008 12:03:02	Incorrect. You'd have 4 temp HP at the end of it all. the following is my understanding of how this runs. For reference, Temp HP are dealt with on p293 of the Players Handbook. In particular, the bullet point "Don't Add Together" on p294. Temp HP are a seperate pool of Hit Points, which do not stack with each other and are subtracted from first. The Battlerager power is different in that it allows you to stack the Temp Hit Points you get when you attack with an Invigorating power to your already accumulated Temp Hit Points. The first part of the Battlerager power though - about getting THP's every time you're hit, those don't stack. So... I have 8 temp hit points. I am hit for 7 damage, which yields 1 temp hit point left. Now I gain 4 Temp Hit Points (my con mod) due to Battlerager Vigor. Since 4 temp Hit Points is more than my current total of 1 temp hit points, my new total is 4THP. If I then hit an opponent with an Invigorating power I would add 4 Temp Hit Points. The Battlerager adds those 4 to his current 4 for a new total of 8 THP. To continue the example, I am hit again for 3 points damage, yielding a new total of 5 THP. I gain 4 Temp Hit points (because I was hit), but this time my current Temp Hit Point total is greater than this, and these points aren't coming from an Invigorating power, so I am still at 5 Temp Hit Points. They don't stack. Hopefully that made sense.
#5 JasonCarrier Dec 03, 2008 13:04:45	Incorrect. You'd have 4 temp HP at the end of it all. the following is my understanding of how this runs. For reference, Temp HP are dealt with on p293 of the Players Handbook. In particular, the bullet point "Don't Add Together" on p294. Temp HP are a seperate pool of Hit Points, which do not stack with each other and are subtracted from first. The Battlerager power is different in that it allows you to stack the Temp Hit Points you get when you attack with an Invigorating power to your already accumulated Temp Hit Points. The first part of the Battlerager power though - about getting THP's every time you're hit, those don't stack. So... I have 8 temp hit points. I am hit for 7 damage, which yields 1 temp hit point left. Now I gain 4 Temp Hit Points (my con mod) due to Battlerager Vigor. Since 4 temp Hit Points is more than my current total of 1 temp hit points, my new total is 4THP. If I then hit an opponent with an Invigorating power I would add 4 Temp Hit Points. The Battlerager adds those 4 to his current 4 for a new total of 8 THP. To continue the example, I am hit again for 3 points damage, yielding a new total of 5 THP. I gain 4 Temp Hit points (because I was hit), but this time my current Temp Hit Point total is greater than this, and these points aren't coming from an Invigorating power, so I am still at 5 Temp Hit Points. They don't stack. Hopefully that made sense. It does, now what about other sources? Do they stack? Or would the max just be the highest?
#6 kshaver Dec 03, 2008 13:18:47	It does, now what about other sources? Do they stack? Or would the max just be the highest? No source of temporary hit points stack unless they explicitly state that they do.
#7 JasonCarrier Dec 03, 2008 13:29:20	No source of temporary hit points stack unless they explicitly state that they do. Ok, so I would have a pool given to me by an outside source, a pool given to me from vigor and a pool given to me from invigorating (that stack)? Thank you for clearing alot of this up.
#8 kshaver Dec 03, 2008 14:03:02	Ok, so I would have a pool given to me by an outside source, a pool given to me from vigor and a pool given to me from invigorating (that stack)? Yes, but there is no reason to keep track of them in seperate pools. Just use the largest amount, and if you use an invigorating power while you still have some left then add those to it. Lets say you are a dwarven battlerager with 20 con and the dwarven stoneblood feat: You get hit in combat for 8 melee damage and lose those hit points, but gain 7 temporary hp (5 con+2 stoneblood). Your cleric then uses an area power that gives everyone 5 temp hit points. You ignore those because you already have more and they do not stack. You then hit with an invigorating power to gain 5 more that stack, you add those to your current 7 and you now have 12 temp hit points. You get hit for 8 melee again, dropping you to 4 temp hit points, but giving you 7 temp hit points that do not stack. Since the 4 and the 7 do not stack you throw the 4 away and use the 7.
#9 asoka Dec 03, 2008 14:16:53	Edit: KShaver responded in clearer fashion re: multiple pools.
#10 JasonCarrier Dec 03, 2008 14:31:37	Yes, but there is no reason to keep track of them in seperate pools. Just use the largest amount, and if you use an invigorating power while you still have some left then add those to it. Lets say you are a dwarven battlerager with 20 con and the dwarven stoneblood feat: You get hit in combat for 8 melee damage and lose those hit points, but gain 7 temporary hp (5 con+2 stoneblood). Your cleric then uses an area power that gives everyone 5 temp hit points. You ignore those because you already have more and they do not stack. You then hit with an invigorating power to gain 5 more that stack, you add those to your current 7 and you now have 12 temp hit points. You get hit for 8 melee again, dropping you to 4 temp hit points, but giving you 7 temp hit points that do not stack. Since the 4 and the 7 do not stack you throw the 4 away and use the 7. Awesome. Thank you so much.