Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gadren Mar 20, 2009 21:06:40	Hey all, I'm planning on making a half-orc Avenger of Tempus ("Pursuit" build, multiclassed into ranger) for LFR, and I was wondering what advice you might have, build-wise. How should I balance my stats? What are good feat choices? What treasure bundles should I keep an eye out for? What region would be ideal? For ranger multiclassing, do you think I should aim for thrown weapon powers (and take the avalanche hurler pp), melee powers (do all the good ranger ones require two weapons?), or just take Warrior of the Wild (free skill and hunter's quarry for 2 rounds is not bad not matter how you slice it) and not touch other ranger powers. For weapon, I was thinking either Fullblade, or dual-wielding a bastard sword and hand axe (for ranged attacks, if I can't reach my target). Any other weapon choices I should consider? Thankyou in advance for your advice! UPDATE: Based on the advice I've received thus far, this is the 20 level build I'm considering. Since my focus is still Avenger powers, I decided to focus on the fullblade, and took Ranger powers at heroic tier that could be used with such a weapon. At paragon, I take the Avalanche Hurler PP, which at 12th level lets me draw and sheath weapons as a free action! So, I can switch between my big sword and a pair of hand axes without any hassle (Sword for avenger powers, axes for ranger powers)! I know some consider 16 "low" for a primary stat, but with the Avenger's Oath and Weapon Expertise down the road, I'm not too concerned about my accuracy. Please let me know what you think, and what you would do differently!: Name: Karash . . . Race: Half-Orc Class: Avenger . . . Censure: Pursuit Deity: Tempus . . . Region: Vilhon Wilds (Dun Reroll, +1 initiative) Paragon Path: Avalanche Hurler Ability Scores: Str 16 . . . . . . Con 13 . . . . . . Dex 16 Int 10 . . . . . . Wis 16 . . . . . . Cha 8 ( 4 : +1 Wis/Dex . 8 : +1 Str/Dex) (14: +1 Wis/Dex. 18: +1 Wis/Dex) Skills: Athletics, Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth Feats: 1 - Warrior of the Wild 2 - Weapon Proficiency (Full Blade) 4 - Novice Power 6 - Channel Divinity: Righteous Rage of Tempus 8 - Power Attack 10 - Adept Power 11 - Improved Armor of Faith 12 - Heavy Blade Opportunity 14 - Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blades) 16 - Weapon Expertise (Axes) 17 - Weapon Focus (Heavy Blades) [Drop Novice Power] 18 - Strength from Pain 20 - Unrelenting Assault Powers: At Wills: 1 - Bond of Pursuit 1 - Radiant Vengeance Encounters: 1 - Angelic Alacrity 3 - Sequestering Strike (Retrain to Disruptive Strike at 4th) 7 - Inexorable Pursuit 11 - Landslide Strike 13- Whirling Blades 17 - Ready the Final Blow Dailies: 1 - Aspect of Might 5 - Bond of Foresight 9 - Aspect of Speed (Retrain to Attack on the Run at 10th and back at 15th) 15 - Blade Cascade 19 - Oath of the Inevitable Blade Utilities: 2 - Resonant Escape 6 - Aspect of Agility 10 - River of Life 12 - Quick-Draw Trick 16 - Vengeful Revenant 20 - Eruption of Steel Snapshot: 6th level Show Snapshot: 6th level Name: Karash . . . Race: Half-Orc Class: Avenger . . . Censure: Pursuit Deity: Tempus . . . Region: Vilhon Wilds (Dun Reroll, +1 initiative) Ability Scores: Str 16 (+6) . . . . . . Con 13 (+4) . . . . . . Dex 16 (+6) Int 10 (+3) . . . . . . Wis 16 (+6) . . . . . . Cha 08 (+2) Skills: Athletics, Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth Feats: Warrior of the Wild, Weapon Proficiency (Full Blade), Novice Power, Channel Divinity: Righteous Rage of Tempus Treasure Bundle Items: Vicious Fullblade +2, Elven Cloak +2, Vicious Handaxe +2, Iron Armbands of Power, Holy Symbol +2, Bloodthread Armor +2 Powers: At Wills: Bond of Pursuit, Radiant Vengeance Encounters: Angelic Alacrity, Disruptive Strike Dailies: Aspect of Might, Bond of Foresight Utilities: Resonant Escape, Aspect of Agility Combat Stats: HP: 57 AC: 21 Fort: 19 Ref: 19 Will: 19 Surges: 8 Initiative: +7 Basic Melee Attack: (Fullblade) +11 vs. AC; 1d12+7 damage (3d12+19 on a crit) Basic Ranged Attack: (Handaxe) Ranged 5/10; +10 vs. AC; 1d6+5 damage (2d12+11 on a crit) Bond of Pursuit: (At-Will) +11 vs. AC; 1d12+7 damage (3d12+19 on a crit), shift 4 to pursue target as free action on its turn Radiant Vengeance: (At-Will) Ranged 10; +8 vs. Reflex; 1d8+5 damage (2d6+13 on a crit) Resonant Escape: (Encounter) Immediate. Teleport 3 after attacked. Aspect of Agility: (Encounter) Move action. Shift 5. Gain +2 AC and Reflex until EONT. Angelic Alacrity: (Encounter) Shift 4 before attack; +11 vs. AC; 2d12+7 damage (3d12+31 on a crit) Disruptive Strike: (Encounter) Immediate Reaction when attacked; 1d12+7 damage (3d12+19 on a crit), target takes -6 to triggering attack roll Furious Assault: (Encounter) Free Action: +1[w] on successful hit Hunter's Quarry: (Encounter) Minor: +1d6 damage against target until EONT Righteous Rage of Tempus: (Encounter) Minor: If next attack hits, it's automatically a critical hit. Aspect of Might: (Daily) +11 vs. AC; 3d12+7 damage (3d12+43 on a crit). Until end of encounter, Karash has +5 to athletics, +2 speed, and +2 to damage rolls Bond of Foresight: (Daily) +11 vs. AC; 2d12+7 damage (3d12+31 on a crit). Half Damage on Miss. Target provokes OA if it attacks Karash or shifts (save ends) Suggested Tactics In Important Fight: Round 1: Move Action: Close with important enemy, preferably artillery. Minor Action: Swear Oath. Standard: Bond of Pursuit. (If target attacks, use Disruptive Strike. If enemy flees, follow as free action.) Round 2: Minor Action: Declare target as Hunter's Quarry. Minor Action: Righteous Rage of Tempus. Standard Action: Use Aspect of Might + Furious Assault for 3d12+61+ damage. If target is still there, use action point to attack with Bond of Foresight. Round 3: If target is still alive, attack with Bond of Pursuit and OAs (with bonuses from Quarry, Aspect of Might, Bond of Foresight, and Oath) until target is very dead. Round 3+: Move on to next remaining target (if any) with Angelic Alacrity.
#2 pint_glass_crusader Mar 21, 2009 14:34:52	Your big problem is that if you start as a pursuit Avenger, you will need WIS/DEX. If you want TWF Ranger powers, you need STR/WIS. If you want missile Ranger powers, you need DEX/WIS. So your bext mix is Avenger/ Ranger as you only need to bump DEX/WIS and then grab some CON for more HP for melee combat (and a bigger Fort defence). That mixture also give you a lot more options than a TWF Ranger. You probably want a Bastard Sword and Javelins. Then you can use two Javelins for use with dual weapon encounter power you take, drop one, or throw one and draw your Bastard Sword (Quick Draw would be a good feat). Personally, I would go DEX/WIS Avenger/Rogue and use a Bastard Sword and Crossbow Pistol (all very Van Helsing), then get the Two-Fisted Shooter and Slaying Action feats. Hope that helps... PGC
#3 sithobi1 Mar 22, 2009 1:26:08	You can't use Oath with ranged powers, though.
#4 pint_glass_crusader Mar 22, 2009 5:56:28	You can't use Oath with ranged powers, though. That's true. However, you can use your Censure of Pursuit to add DEX modifier +2 damage to your ranged attack when the target moves away. So that makes the Avenger/Missile Ranger less powerful/optimised than Avenger/Rogue. You also can't use a Bastard Sword to make sneak attacks. However, if you have the Two-Fisted Shooter feat and score a melee critical hit, you can make a free basic attack with your hand crossbow... and making two rolls to hit makes gives you a better chance of that? If you are a Drow Avenger/Rogue with Ruthless Hunter and Two-Fisted Shooter, your Hand Crossbow is a high crit weapon and does 1D8... roll on the Drow Avenger/Rogues of Lolth with Rapiers and Hand Crossbows... I mean Corellon... yeah Corellon... With a Rogue MC, you could also take the Surprising Charge feat (if you have DEX17+) which adds +1[W] damage to charge attacks... that makes Whirlwind Charge a 3[W] encounter power (4[W] if you are a Half-Orc and blow your racial beans too)... not too shabby if you're using a big weapon! I also think Slaying Action (or Predatory Action for a Ranger) is a must for this type of MC build. On the round when you get CA (for the Rogue) or want to do your Hunter's Quarry damage... spend your Action Point get another attack and do the damage again... golden!
#5 gadren Mar 22, 2009 19:54:22	That's true. However, you can use your Censure of Pursuit to add DEX modifier +2 damage to your ranged attack when the target moves away. So that makes the Avenger/Missile Ranger less powerful/optimised than Avenger/Rogue. You also can't use a Bastard Sword to make sneak attacks. However, if you have the Two-Fisted Shooter feat and score a melee critical hit, you can make a free basic attack with your hand crossbow... and making two rolls to hit makes gives you a better chance of that? If you are a Drow Avenger/Rogue with Ruthless Hunter and Two-Fisted Shooter, your Hand Crossbow is a high crit weapon and does 1D8... roll on the Drow Avenger/Rogues of Lolth with Rapiers and Hand Crossbows... I mean Corellon... yeah Corellon... With a Rogue MC, you could also take the Surprising Charge feat (if you have DEX17+) which adds +1[W] damage to charge attacks... that makes Whirlwind Charge a 3[W] encounter power (4[W] if you are a Half-Orc and blow your racial beans too)... not too shabby if you're using a big weapon! I also think Slaying Action (or Predatory Action for a Ranger) is a must for this type of MC build. On the round when you get CA (for the Rogue) or want to do your Hunter's Quarry damage... spend your Action Point get another attack and do the damage again... golden! Thankyou very much for your well thought-out advice. Please check out the build I posted in the updated OP.
#6 the-second Mar 22, 2009 21:08:59	Use a two bastard swords or a double sword. You don't want to need 3 weapons or need two weapon expertise feats.
#7 gadren Mar 22, 2009 21:51:46	Use a two bastard swords or a double sword. You don't want to need 3 weapons or need two weapon expertise feats. If I used two bastard swords, I'd need to take another feat anyways, and it'd be less damage. If I used a double sword, that would be a downgrade to 1d8 per [w] from 1d12 per [w]. And with the number of weapons I've seen in treasure bundles, I'm not too concerned about being able to get three weapons by the paragon tier.
#8 gadren Mar 23, 2009 0:24:50	Snapshot: 6th level Name: Karash . . . Race: Half-Orc Class: Avenger . . . Censure: Pursuit Deity: Tempus . . . Region: Vilhon Wilds (Dun Reroll, +1 initiative) Ability Scores: Str 16 (+6) . . . . . . Con 13 (+4) . . . . . . Dex 16 (+6) Int 10 (+3) . . . . . . Wis 16 (+6) . . . . . . Cha 08 (+2) Skills: Athletics, Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth Feats: Warrior of the Wild, Weapon Proficiency (Full Blade), Novice Power, Channel Divinity: Righteous Rage of Tempus Treasure Bundle Items: Vicious Fullblade +2, Elven Cloak +2, Vicious Handaxe +2, Iron Armbands of Power, Holy Symbol +2, Bloodthread Armor +2 Powers: At Wills: Bond of Pursuit, Radiant Vengeance Encounters: Angelic Alacrity, Disruptive Strike Dailies: Aspect of Might, Bond of Foresight Utilities: Resonant Escape, Aspect of Agility Combat Stats: HP: 57 AC: 21 Fort: 19 Ref: 19 Will: 19 Surges: 8 Initiative: +7 Basic Melee Attack: (Fullblade) +11 vs. AC; 1d12+7 damage (3d12+19 on a crit) Basic Ranged Attack: (Handaxe) Ranged 5/10; +10 vs. AC; 1d6+5 damage (2d12+11 on a crit) Bond of Pursuit: (At-Will) +11 vs. AC; 1d12+7 damage (3d12+19 on a crit), shift 4 to pursue target as free action on its turn Radiant Vengeance: (At-Will) Ranged 10; +8 vs. Reflex; 1d8+5 damage (2d6+13 on a crit) Resonant Escape: (Encounter) Immediate. Teleport 3 after attacked. Aspect of Agility: (Encounter) Move action. Shift 5. Gain +2 AC and Reflex until EONT. Angelic Alacrity: (Encounter) Shift 4 before attack; +11 vs. AC; 2d12+7 damage (3d12+31 on a crit) Disruptive Strike: (Encounter) Immediate Reaction when attacked; 1d12+7 damage (3d12+19 on a crit), target takes -6 to triggering attack roll Furious Assault: (Encounter) Free Action: +1[w] on successful hit Hunter's Quarry: (Encounter) Minor: +1d6 damage against target until EONT Righteous Rage of Tempus: (Encounter) Minor: If next attack hits, it's automatically a critical hit. Aspect of Might: (Daily) +11 vs. AC; 3d12+7 damage (3d12+43 on a crit). Until end of encounter, Karash has +5 to athletics, +2 speed, and +2 to damage rolls Bond of Foresight: (Daily) +11 vs. AC; 2d12+7 damage (3d12+31 on a crit). Half Damage on Miss. Target provokes OA if it attacks Karash or shifts (save ends) Suggested Tactics In Important Fight: Round 1: Move Action: Close with important enemy, preferably artillery. Minor Action: Swear Oath. Standard: Bond of Pursuit. (If target attacks, use Disruptive Strike. If enemy flees, follow as free action.) Round 2: Minor Action: Declare target as Hunter's Quarry. Minor Action: Righteous Rage of Tempus. Standard Action: Use Aspect of Might + Furious Assault for 3d12+61+ damage. If target is still there, use action point to attack with Bond of Foresight. Round 3: If target is still alive, attack with Bond of Pursuit and OAs (with bonuses from Quarry, Aspect of Might, Bond of Foresight, and Oath) until target is very dead. Round 3+: Move on to next remaining target (if any) with Angelic Alacrity.
#9 the-second Mar 23, 2009 17:43:27	Changing Weapon Proficiency from Fullblade to Bastardsword doesn't cost you a feat. If your comfortable with that many found item slots spent on weapons then I guess that's not a problem. You'll level almost twice in the time it takes you to upgrade your big 3 (5 for you)-yes you could save slots early but it still strikes me as troublesome
#10 telvin3d Mar 23, 2009 18:08:12	I wouldn't worry about the item slots very much. In my local gamedays the 8th level melee characters are all sitting on 3-5 empty slots.
#11 gadren Mar 24, 2009 0:15:11	Changing Weapon Proficiency from Fullblade to Bastardsword doesn't cost you a feat. If your comfortable with that many found item slots spent on weapons then I guess that's not a problem. You'll level almost twice in the time it takes you to upgrade your big 3 (5 for you)-yes you could save slots early but it still strikes me as troublesome I wouldn't worry about the item slots very much. In my local gamedays the 8th level melee characters are all sitting on 3-5 empty slots. The Vicious Fullblade +2, Elven Cloak +2, and Vicious Handaxe +2 are treasure bundle options from three different tier 1 mods. ;) I actually listed the bundle items in the order that I could hypothetically pick them up, level-wise. My point about the feat for the bastard sword is why would I spend a feat on a bastard sword when it's better spent on the fullblade? (Plus I'd need yet another feat to wield two bastard swords.) The fullblade does more damage, and is high crit (half-orc furious assault + channel divinity: Tempus + high crit + oath of enmity + hunter's quarry = very big splat 1/encounter), and most of my powers don't use two weapons, anyway. Also, a two-handed weapon makes power-attack much nicer when I'm not using my Tempus Nuke. If I could make most of my attack powers use two-weapons, I would, and focus on a different sort of weapon, but 4e multiclassing just doesn't work that way. Also, fluff-wise... how f-ing awesome would it be to see some big burly half-orc skewer a guy with a fullblade, leave the sword there for a moment while he pulls out a pair of handaxes, chucks one into his face (which magically returns), unleashes a flurry of another 5 axe attacks, puts axes back away and brandishes his big-arse sword again... ALL IN ONE ROUND (granted, with an action point (and a major daily power), and the leave-a-sword-in-the-guy's-gut might push fluff a little far (but it could be sheathed, at any rate), but still... Devil May Cry's got nothin' on me ;))