My first ever 4E character I built as an Eladrin Bard. In my first LFR outing he was less then impressive, spending most of his time in combat in the negatives. In the social encounters he did very well, as one would expect, but from what I'm seeing there's a bigger need for combat ability than social.
So I was wondering what people would suggest training and equipment wise to help him improve.
Level 2 Eladrin Bard
S 14 C 12 D 14 I 14 W 12 C 15
HP 29
AC 16 Fort 15 Ref 17 Will 17 (Got a +2 Amulet of Protection as my first magic item)
He has a longsword and a wand implement, leather armor and a shield
Abilities:
Bardic Training, Bardic Viture/Virtue of Cunning, Majestic Word, Song of Rest, Words of Friendship
Ritual Caster
Feats:
Arcane Intiate/Magic Missile 1/enc, Eladrin Soldier
Rituals: Traveler's Chant, Pyrotechnics, Amanuensis
So that's what I have to work with. I haven't actually played him at level 2 yet so I've some flexibility here. Any suggestions?
Bards should be a lot of fun. They are my pick for the most fun class in 4E.
As a bard, you have a lot of flexibility. Outside of the ranged powers for Prescience, you can pretty comfortably be either ranged or weapon and still be really effective. Even with wpn/ranged powers, you can choose some weapons and take feats so you can do several of those effectively. But, the big key is what you really want to do.
For me, I like being a ranged leader unless there is a real reason to be in melee. Generally there are enough melee guys that being ranged is a tactical advantage. You should avoid nearly all damage while staying close enough to heal people, to use your virtue, and of course to help PCs and hinder enemies.
You have a nice amount of control and your damage isn't so bad at the low levels (later it gets worse but you have more ways to get damage through helping others and your control improves).
I would stress getting your Charisma higher. 15 is pretty darn low for a primary stat. You want to hit often. Because of that, I would take Implement Expertise (or applicable similar feat) ASAP. You need your powers to connect so you help others. Unless you are hugely melee, stay out of combat. If you are melee, then you need to shore up your defenses, especially AC.
You will find a lot of modules where being the Charisma PC is a huge boost and even essential to the party being able to succeed. Your +1 in untrained skills will also be a boost. Don't be afraid to be the leader and coordinate with the party. "Which of ye have skill in climbin' this here mountain? Am I truly the best to do this task?", is the kind of thing my beer-guzzling dwarven bard would say to figure out how the party can best accomplish a task.
So that's what I have to work with. I haven't actually played him at level 2 yet so I've some flexibility here. Any suggestions?
If you would not find it fun to play a character who's not that effective in combat (or you play with a group that prefers to play with effective characters), you may want to consider putting this character aside and starting a new one from scratch.
Both your combat and social abilities are based on Charisma. 18 would be the norm for a character like this; a 16 is doable if there's some sort of worthwhile tradeoff for the lower stat. 15 Charisma on a bard means that you will not be hitting as often, powers with secondary effects based on Charisma (healing, for example) will be weaker and your social skills will be less effective.
Your stats make your bard mediocre in a lot of things, rather than good at a few things. There are people who enjoy playing (or playing with) those kinds of characters. Make sure that's true for you before continuing to invest time in this character.
Should you prefer to continue with this character, consider retraining your feats. Arcane Initiate gives you little benefit with an Intelligence that low (and magic missile is difficult to justify as the power selection in any case) and getting a little more damage when you hit someone with a longsword isn't your primary concern right now. Prioritize Implement Expertise (for the +1 to hit), Feyborn Charm (for another +1 to hit with Vicious Mockery and other Charm powers) and Arcane Implement Proficiency [heavy blades] (so that you can get mileage out of the Eladrin Soldier feat; retrain Implement Expertise when you take this feat). You'll probably want to pick up Jack of All Trades at some point, to go with the balanced character theme.
S 14 C 12 D 14 I 14 W 12 C 15
Here's your problem: your stats are too average. If you want greater effectivity in combat, take a charisma of 18 to 20. I would not build a 4E character with a prime ability score less than that.
For arcane initiate, magic missile is pretty much the least interesting spell you could have picked; I'd suggest Chilling Cloud instead. Also, Eladrin soldier is not all that great a feat for bards.
I'd be looking at:
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Feyborn Charm
Level 2: Implement Expertise (wand)
POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard encounter 1: Blunder
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Song of Courage
ITEMS
Magic Longsword +1, Magic Wand +1
I assume as you are level 2 you have 260gp, - sell the Amulet to get the cash you will need on top of that 260gp to get the +1 sword and wand.
With those you get:
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike +7 vs AC 1d8+3 damage
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery +6 vs Wil 1d6+4 damage.
Bard encounter 1: Blunder +6 vs Will 1d6+4
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout +5 vs Will 2d6+3
Never boost any stats other than Cha and Int.
At level 3 be sure to get a Harsh Songblade (or other choice at level 3 in AV2 if it exists) at some point (ideally immediately on leveling to 3), then retrain Implement Expertise (wand) to Focused Expertise (Longsword) asap (again ideally on leveling to 3). Then at level 4 you can take Eladrin Soldier if you still want to... but it isn't really a good call, Advantage of Cunning or Improved Majestic Word will help parties more often.
Hope that helps.
(But yes 17 Cha is really the bottom you want...)
Wow, lots of good thoughts. Thanks!
I have to admit, I really didn't understand 4e combat at all when I started this character and made some very bad assumptions. I also thought LFR would be more similar to LG and so a balanced character would be interesting and not as much of a liability. I am thouroughly disabused of that notion now. 
I am happy to drop the Eladrin Soldier feat. It was my attempt to improve my combat ability at 2nd level and isn't set yet.
Why do I need to need to wait til 3rd level to train in Focused Expertise Longsword? Can't I just take it at 2nd level instead of taking Implement Expertise Wand? I can retrain my Arcane Initiate to Arcane Impement Proficency Heavy Blades so I can use my longsword for everything and not have to worry about a wand anymore, right?
--Mav
I also thought LFR would be more similar to LG and so a balanced character would be interesting and not as much of a liability. I am thouroughly disabused of that notion now.
I think it is more a factor of what makes a character 'balanced' in 4e is very different than 3.x
In 3.x, many, many things outside your class abilities were closely tied to specific abilities and choices that had nothing to do with the rest of your character. So a balanced character had to address a lot of different bases.
4e tends to be more flexible as to what abilities and options are important to each other. For example, in 3.x if you wanted to boost your basic melee attack STR was what you boosted. In 4e you might boost STR, but you could also take a feat to use a different stat or you could pick an at-will power that allows you to do the same thing. The method you use to get there may be different and might put a slightly different flavour on the character but the general result is the same.
In 3e you made a flexible character by covering all your bases. In 4e you make a flexible character by building an effective character and then choosing flexible options. You could have two characters with the same race, class and stats but one is only good (but exceptionally good) at swinging a sword (or spell or whatever) because all the feats and background options all are tuned toward that end. The other character still has solid attacks and such but the options and powers chosen make them flexible in other ways such as skills and utility powers.
Why do I need to need to wait til 3rd level to train in Focused Expertise Longsword? Can't I just take it at 2nd level instead of taking Implement Expertise Wand? I can retrain my Arcane Initiate to Arcane Impement Proficency Heavy Blades so I can use my longsword for everything and not have to worry about a wand anymore, right?
Yes but that isn't the best way to do it...
That said Adventurer's Vault 2 comes to the rescue
You can sell that +2 Amulet and grab a Harmonic Songblade +1 as a longsword, then you can take Focused Expertise instead of the Implement Expertise.
The reason for saying it the way I did originally was the inability to get a Longsword that functioned as a weapon without burning feats, and you want to get more accurate, that is the current major problem I see for the character. +2 with your primary stat hurts a lot, getting a +1 Weapon/Implement and two feats that will stack to increase your accuracy will make you more effectie in combat.
Bards are awesome characters for being effective in and out of combat btw, it is just you have built the character around the wrong ruleset in terms of stats, fortunatley 4E will tolerate that, and let you recover from it far better than 3E did.
Big thing to keep in mind is that your strengths are ability to attack Will (typically the worst defence) or AC (typically bad on things with high Will), the ability to pass out healing, the ability to help your fellow PCs move around the battlefield (Virtue of Cunning) and that Charisma skills are typically very usefull in Social parts of the game (and there are a lot of Social Skill challenges around)
I mean if I post my home game Bard this is what she looked like at level 2:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
"CC", level 2
Eladrin, Bard
Build: Valorous Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Background: Detective
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 17.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 11, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 17.
AC: 12 Fort: 12 Reflex: 13 Will: 16
HP: 30 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 7
TRAINED SKILLS
Streetwise +9, Arcana +9, Diplomacy +9, Perception +6, Athletics +7, Acrobatics +7
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +3, Heal +2, History +5, Insight +2, Intimidate +5, Nature +2, Religion +3, Stealth +3, Thievery +3
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Initiate
Level 2: Combat Virtuoso
POWERS
Arcane Initiate: Illusory Ambush
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard encounter 1: Shout of Triumph
Bard daily 1: Slayer's Song
Bard utility 2: Song of Courage
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
And this is what she looks like now: (There are 4 PCs only so we are slightly better equipped than DMG guidelines - plus the DM is crazy.) (Also note that her Multiclassing was often a way to get training in a skill with an appropriate perk for her RP.)
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
"CC", level 15
Eladrin, Bard, War Chanter
Build: Valorous Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Pact Initiate: Pact Initiate (fey pact)
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Background: Detective
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 16, Dex 15, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 21.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 11, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 17.
AC: 30 Fort: 23 Reflex: 24 Will: 27
HP: 98 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 24
TRAINED SKILLS
Streetwise +17, Arcana +16, Diplomacy +20, Perception +13, Athletics +14, Acrobatics +15, Insight +13, Endurance +15, Stealth +14, Religion +14
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +16, Dungeoneering +8, Heal +8, History +12, Intimidate +13, Nature +8, Thievery +10
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Initiate
Level 2: Combat Virtuoso
Level 4: Pact Initiate
Level 6: Student of Battle
Level 8: Warrior of the Wild
Level 10: Acolyte Power
Level 11: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 12: Adept Power
Level 14: Novice Power
POWERS
Arcane Initiate: Illusory Ambush
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard encounter 1: Shout of Triumph
Bard daily 1: Slayer's Song
Bard utility 2: Song of Courage (retrained to Shield at Acolyte Power)
Bard encounter 3: Charger's Call (retrained to Color Spray at Novice Power)
Bard daily 5: Word of Mystic Warding
Bard utility 6: Ode to Sacrifice
Bard encounter 7: Scorpion's Claw Strike
Bard daily 9: Saga of Vengeance
Bard utility 10: Word of Life
Bard encounter 13: Earthquake Strike (replaces Shout of Triumph)
Bard daily 15: Funeral Dirge (retrained to Prismatic Beams at Adept Power) (replaces Word of Mystic Warding)
ITEMS
Ritual Book, Sunblade Longsword +4, Exalted Braidmail Armor +3, Brooch of Shielding +3, Bracers of Escape (heroic tier), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Gloves of the Healer (paragon tier), Gem of Colloquy (paragon tier), Power Jewel (heroic tier), Ruby Scabbard (heroic tier), Feather Boat (paragon tier), Healer's Sash (paragon tier), Adventurer's Kit, Fine Clothing, Climber's Kit, Wand of Eldritch Rain +3, Light Shield
RITUALS
Traveler's Chant, Lullaby, Call of Friendship, Fool's Speech, Anthem of Unity, Song of Sustenance, Tune of Merriment, Aria of Revelation, Chorus of Truth, Song of Restfulness
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
As you can see from looking at her she started out not that dissimilar from your character, but as time passed she became more and more effective at doing her job as a Bard - level 4 was a big jump level as was 11th, and 21st will be as well.
Hope this gives you some hope and help.
I don't have AV2, most of my information is coming from the character builder and my friend, who's not available at the moment for me to ask. So does the Harmonic Songblade qualify as an implement without having to take the Arcane Implement feat?
If so, what would you recommend I retrain?
--Mav
Harmonic Songblade is in the latest CB update
But yes it is an implement for Bard spells (per the Bard implement rules and its text).
I recomend you retrain to end up with:
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Feyborn Charm
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Longsword)
POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard encounter 1: Blunder
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Song of Courage
They really did a fantastic job with bards in 4e in my view, the 15 charisma has gota be killing you though, if you are not too married to your character and are willing to start over I'd consider redoing them with a more forgiving 4e stat array (by forgiving i mean more focused) As a bard you (and your party) live and die by your charisma. One thing to consider with that option is that simply taking a 16 starting charisma, will raise your characters "effectiveness" at level 1 to nearly that of a level 2 with a 15 charisma.
As an Eladrin I'd have to say at least a 16 charisma, 18 if you think you can spare it. I look at stats as a guideline for how I roleplay my character and realize that while a 10 may not seem heroic, if the old guidelines still apply the average person only has like an 9-10 in a stat, so even an 8 int fighter is about as smart as the average 5th grader (not those mutant genius ones from the tv show).
Feyborn Charm is wicked good as a feat. I see you have a wand but there is no reason to carry one, a light shield will serve you better since the wand is not needed (and unless it's magic won't do anything)
If I were making a cunning bard eladrin I'd do the following
(apologies for no sblock as I seem to fail at new board codes)
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 1
Eladrin, Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Cunning
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 12, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 16.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 12, Dex 11, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 16.
AC: 16 Fort: 11 Reflex: 15 Will: 15
HP: 24 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 6
TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +5, Arcana +10, Bluff +9, Religion +8, History +10, Diplomacy +9
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +2, Insight +1, Intimidate +4, Nature +1, Perception +1, Stealth +2, Streetwise +4, Thievery +2, Athletics +2
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Feyborn Charm
POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard at-will 1: Misdirected Mark
Bard encounter 1: Blunder
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
ITEMS
Ritual Book, Leather Armor, Longsword, Light Shield
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Thanks all, this has definitely made a difference. For now I'm going to keep this character and see what I can do with him.
Here's how he looks without the songblade, since I don't have a current membership to update my character builder.
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Elistar Lythwaite, level 2
Eladrin, Bard
Build: Cunning Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Cunning
Background: Amn, Cat Burglar, Con Artist, Seducer, Occupation - Entertainer, Occupation - Thief (Amn Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 15.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 15.
AC: 16 Fort: 15 Reflex: 17 Will: 17
HP: 29 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 7
TRAINED SKILLS
Thievery +9, Arcana +10, Diplomacy +9, Acrobatics +8, Perception +7, Streetwise +9
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +3, Heal +3, History +6, Insight +3, Intimidate +4, Nature +3, Religion +4, Stealth +4, Athletics +4
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Initiate (retrained to Feyborn Charm at Level 2)
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Longsword)
POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Misdirected Mark
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard encounter 1: Blunder
Bard daily 1: Slayer's Song
Bard utility 2: Song of Courage
ITEMS
Ritual Book, Adventurer's Kit, Hammer, Implement, Wand, Pitons (10), Leather Armor, Longsword, Light Shield, Amulet of Protection +2
RITUALS
Traveler's Chant, Pyrotechnics, Amanuensis
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
The Harmonic Songblade will boost his Vicious Mocery to +6 for 1d6+4 and Slayer's Song to +8 for 2d8+3. That is double the to hit he had before the changes and with better damage.
If I was to remake him, I think I'd try and keep his jack of all trade's nature but really concentrate on Charisma
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Elistar 2, level 1
Eladrin, Bard
Build: Cunning Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Cunning
Background: Amn (Amn Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 17.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 17.
AC: 15 Fort: 11 Reflex: 14 Will: 15
HP: 24 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 6
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +9, Diplomacy +9, Perception +6, Streetwise +9, Thievery +7
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +2, Heal +2, History +5, Insight +2, Intimidate +4, Nature +2, Religion +3, Stealth +2, Athletics +2
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Feyborn Charm
POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard encounter 1: Inspiring Refrain
Bard daily 1: Verse of Triumph
ITEMS
Ritual Book, Adventurer's Kit, Leather Armor, Light Shield, Longsword
RITUALS
Amanuensis, Traveler's Chant
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Now, suggestions for level 3? And what magic items should I be on the lookout for?
Jack of all Trades can be achieved better by making sure you have that 18 Cha and then just taking the Jack of All Trades feat - as a Bard you will then have +3 to all your untrained skills.
I will echo what others have said, and suggest that since your character is only level 2, you may want to consider starting over. 15 Cha is going to haunt you for the rest of your career. It's an easy thing to do with a bard, since you want to take all the multiclass goodness you can, but the cost is really too high.
If you do want to work with what you've got, then focussing on your to-hit as hard as possible is a good start. Beyond that, this character probably wants to be the 'utility belt' kind of bard - someone with a trick up his sleeve for every situation. In terms of feats, multiclass feats can give you all sorts of neat tricks, and you may want to pick up several. The added bonus here is that these feats give you skill training, making sure you stay on top of things out of combat.
In terms of powers, keep an eye out for powers that have good effects even without a hit, since you'll be missing a bit more than average. For example if you do want to go back to arcane initiate, Chilling Cloud or Storm Pillar don't need a hit-roll to be useful. Likewise, if you use Adept Power to power-swap into a wizard daily, there are loads of useful zones/walls etc. that have great effects without rolling to hit.
It's an easy thing to do with a bard, since you want to take all the multiclass goodness you can, but the cost is really too high.
Actually that isn't true.
FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Initiate
Level 2: Combat Virtuoso
Level 4: Pact Initiate
Level 6: Student of Battle
Level 8: Warrior of the Wild
Level 10: Acolyte Power
Level 11: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 12: Adept Power
Level 14: Novice Power
That's a lot of multiclass "goodness" and you only need Charisma to be high, you can see the whole character posted a few posts back by me.
I've got a gnoll bard that does pretty well with 16 cha, If only Id stop rollings 1-5 on the d20.
I tend to find that the +1 that 18 would have given me pretty useless for me at least. Cause i either roll 1-5 or 15-20. Even so, I personally, would NEVER stop a stat on an odd number if i could help it.
when are thye comming out with a bard implement bow. They added range weapon powers but no way to use a bow as an implenment with item or feats.
It shows they throw it in at the last minute 
when are thye comming out with a bard implement bow. They added range weapon powers but no way to use a bow as an implenment with item or feats.
It shows they throw it in at the last minute
Guessing you haven't bought Adventurer's Vault 2, with its five different Songbows?