Then: We could be from any region that has a Background in the FRPG.
Now: My understanding of the latest guide is that we can be from any region of Faerun that we choose. This ranges from Returned Abeir to Thesk to Rashemen.
I just thought I'd double check before I made a character from an off-beat place
This sets the basic skill bonuses or background bonus you can get.
If you have the PHB2 you can also choose one of the backgrounds from that book as a secondary background.
You may then choose which of the backgrounds you will draw your bonus from (one or the other).
However, there is nothing to stop you claiming to come from any region of Faerun. Your "home region" is just the region you have "spent most of your time in", it may not be where you were born.
It is even conceivable that you could come from ancient places from before the Spellplague! However, you are still required to have one of the modern regions as your background, and other players and NPCs may not necessarily believe you.
But the scope of your background/roleplaying fluff is as broad as your imagination!
Hope that helps...
PGC
Hope that helps...
It does to a degree. However that then raises the question what the heck is this talking about:
The first adventure in the story arc is called Stirring
the Embers and will be showcased at Gen Con Indy
and available through the RPGA’s ordering system
immediately following the convention. You can bring
an existing low-level LFR character to play these adventures,
but we think you’ll have a better play experience
if you make a new character native to Tarmalune or
one of the other Windrise Ports. You’ll also get to put
the information in this article to good use!
Is this a case of specific trumps general? In that we can create a character from an FRPG region OR from Returned Abeir?
It seems odd if the rules say we can be from Returned Abeir, some remote place disconnected entirely from the rest of Faerun, but not from Thesk where adventures have been set.
As far as the CCG goes, you must choose a region from the FRPG as your "home region".
This is no longer accurate.
The CCG says "Select a character background. You must choose a region within the FORGOTTEN REALMS for your character. Most of the regions for your character are found in the Backgrounds chapter of the Forgotten Realms Player’s Guide;" (v1.9, p7)
Note that it is clear that not all regions are found in the FRPG, and the only restriction on which region you can choose is that it must be "within the Forgotten Realms".
This means that Tarmalune and the Windrise Ports are available, as are other 'regions' of the Forgotten Realms which are not specified in the FRPG. Though how you would identify a 'region within the Forgotten Realms' unless it appears in the FRPG, FRCG, DDI, or WotC website I'm not sure.
As far as the CCG goes, you must choose a region from the FRPG as your "home region".
You have to choose a region within the Forgotten Realms, not necessarily one from the FRPG.
Indeed, the CCG itself notes that only "most" of the legal regions are listed in the FRPG, implying that some are not.
You must choose a region within the FORGOTTEN REALMS for your character. Most of the regions for your character are found in the Backgrounds chapter of the Forgotten Realms Player’s Guide [...]
-np
This is no longer accurate.
The CCG says "Select a character background. You must choose a region within the FORGOTTEN REALMS for your character. Most of the regions for your character are found in the Backgrounds chapter of the Forgotten Realms Player’s Guide;" (v1.9, p7)
Note that it is clear that not all regions are found in the FRPG, and the only restriction on which region you can choose is that it must be "within the Forgotten Realms".
It still had to be from a legal player resource.
This means that Tarmalune and the Windrise Ports are available, as are other 'regions' of the Forgotten Realms which are not specified in the FRPG.
tarmalune and Windrise are in Dragon, a legal player resource. The only other regions are int he FRCG, which is not a legal player resource. So you couldn't take any regions out of it.
So for all intents and purposes, you are restricted to taking regions from the FRPG only and any that may pop up in Dragon.
However, I don't think 'region' is a rules item. 'Background' is, and you can only take backgrounds from allowed resources, but you are told to choose a 'region'. I interpreted the passage to indicate which background benefits you can choose from (which it does very clearly) but to remove any limit on the 'region' you can come from. Only regions in the FRPG and Dragon have mechanical benefits, of course.
Still, it's less clear than I thought at first reading!
I don't think I agree, I'm sorry, though your reading is interesting.
It's not interesting, it's accurate. ;) We have a list of player resources where we are allowed to take character options out of. The FRCG is not listed on it, so there is nothing in there open to players. That would include regions.
And region is a defined rules item:
[indent]REGIONAL BENEFITS
When you create your character, select a region that defines your cultural heritage. You can choose only one region (and its attendant benefit). Regional benefits are granted only to player characters from a region, not to all residents of that area.[/indent]
Notice the FRPG specifically talks about selecting a region. So no, the FRCG is not open to players so no regions from it.
You can certainly still seek an official answer on it, but I 99.99% sure I am correct on that. I leave that .01% open because the administration can always do somethign totally contrary to the campaign rules they given us. :D
So for all intents and purposes, you are restricted to taking regions from the FRPG only and any that may pop up in Dragon.
So we have a bizarre rule that everyone can be from an island that has had very little to no contact with Faerun (where we're playing), but you can't be from a nation within Faerun ? Yay for rules that don't actually make any sense
;)
Anyway, thanks for everyone that replied. Its a bizarre rule and it will hopefully be addressed in the future. But for now we're left with what we have.
The mini campaign is set in Returned Abeir, and the Dragon article's main goal is to provide people playing in that campaign some additional material to play with.
Sure. But that isn't the only thing it achieved. I figure if we're going to let characters be from the most exotic location in the entire Forgotten Realms, we might as well just open up all of the regions mentioned in the FRCG ;)
Unless you are talking about something else, because I wouldn't call Returned Abeir an island, it is a continent ;)
An island continent maybe?
Wasn't it originally a prison? *runs and hides*
No. Originally, it was part of Pangaea, just like most of the other, older landmasses on Earth.
And the native peoples of Australia were never prisoners.
The English, with their bizarre choices, used both the American Colonies and Australia (after the American Colonies were no longer available) as penal colonies.
My own family history doesn't go far enough back in the USA to have any Broad Arrows, but I am sure that there are plenty still left who could claim that in their ancestry in the USA.
More seriously, IMO, on the regions vs player resources, I was under the impression that, as long as you were willing to use an alternate source for your background (SCales of War/PH2/etc.), you could choose a region in Faerun that did not provide any sort of regional benefit. And there are some listed in the FRPG that don't have them, since I seem to recall were not in the Regional Background chapter, but listed as regions in another part of the book.
As a LFR DM, I would allow a player to choose any "known" region of Faerun for his region, as long as he is taking a background from another source for his mechanical benefit source.
Then again, I would also consider qualifying for a Paragon Path by your regional background to not be a mechanical benefit requiring that you also chose that region for the other minor benefit.
I am from the East Rift, but my background is as a Detective; so I don't get Dungeoneering with a +2 and Deep Speech, I get Insight and Perception at +1. But I would still qualify to pursue the Drow Hunter PP if such a PP existed, assuming that you have to be affiliated with the East Rift to take that PP...
Of course, as ever, ETV, and YMMV.
He still claims to come from Sigil and that's fine... the only problem arises when you get some players who claim that the background is "against the rules" and that he has to come from Thay... and be a Thayan national.
That tends to irk other players, who feel that their characters are under attack.
This is the reason I remind players that their home region is "where they have spent the most time". There is no need to stifle creativity, as-long-as a player is not trying to claim some mechanical benefit through the use of their "fluff", then I don't see the problem.
He still claims to come from Sigil and that's fine... the only problem arises when you get some players who claim that the background is "against the rules" and that he has to come from Thay... and be a Thayan national.
You should point them to the new CCG then. Technically, he could take Born On Another Plane background as his primary and have Thay as his FR region. He could very legitimately say he is from Sigil IC as long he isn't passing it off as his region (which I don't believe he is from what you are saying).
It still had to be from a legal player resource.
I don't think region needs to be from a player soyrce. Why would you be allowed to come from Thay (and most players I know don't even know what that means, they just want to use their Int for hitpoints), but not from Thesk? Why can you be form Netheril but nor form Sembia?
The only direct restriction given with choosing a region is that the region must be in the Forgotten Realms. It is possible that this means to only include Tarmalune and Sarifal, but I doubt that.
Gomez
I don't think region needs to be from a player soyrce. Why would you be allowed to come from Thay (and most players I know don't even know what that means, they just want to use their Int for hitpoints), but not from Thesk? Why can you be form Netheril but nor form Sembia?
The only direct restriction given with choosing a region is that the region must be in the Forgotten Realms. It is possible that this means to only include Tarmalune and Sarifal, but I doubt that.
Because page 2 says that we are restricted to selecting things from what is allowed from the player resource list. The FRCG is not on that list and nothign in the LFR appendix says that you can legally choose anything from the FRCG. The FRPG has a list of regions that are in the Forgotten Realms. There's an article in Dragon with two regions that are part of the FR as well.
Both are player resources.
Because page 2 says that we are restricted to selecting things from what is allowed from the player resource list.
Well, except when we're not.
For example, I think it's pretty clearly implied (albeit not explicitly stated) that the FRCG is an allowable player resource for deity selection.
I don't think it's a tough argument that "choose a region within the Forgotten Realms for your character" includes any region referenced within a player resource, even if the region isn't given a background and is only given a full description in the FRCG or other non-player resource.
"Can a PC select a region that is in the FRCG but doesn't have a background? I.e. can he select Dambrath, Rashemmen, Sembia, or Thesk?"
The answer so far (based on questions to Chris at a different date) is:
"[we] believe Chris said yes to this."
I hope to get full confirmation from Chris at some point.
I asked this on the admin list:
"Can a PC select a region that is in the FRCG but doesn't have a background? I.e. can he select Dambrath, Rashemmen, Sembia, or Thesk?"
The answer so far (based on questions to Chris at a different date) is:
"[we] believe Chris said yes to this."
I hope to get full confirmation from Chris at some point.
Thanks gomeztoo
My personal interpretation of the Background rules are:
1) You must choose a legal regional background from the FRPG (i.e. one with a described benefit)... this is the place you have spent the most time in and the place where your adventuring career began.
2) You can choose a second background from the PHB2... but you can only claim the mechanical benefit of one of your background choices.
3) You can claim to come from any region of Fearun (or beyond). You can also claim the descriptive background from the PHB2 (past career, noble born etc.) and make up any other story you like (none of which will grant a mechanical benefit)... that does not force other characters to believe you (but decent players will normally play along)... however, that does not mean that your origins are not the truth.
As I have said before, some people liek to generate an involved story for their character, and they should be allowed to do so, and to enjoy a bit of RP that involves their background if that's what they want.
Others might not want an involved background, they might take a regional benefit just for the mechanics. It is generally these players who espouse the "your background says Thay, you're a Thayan" idea. This is wrong!
For example, I was born in Scotland, I have lived in Ireland for 20 years... am I Irish?
I have certainly naturalised, and by LFR standards would have the regional benefit, but I'm a Scotsman.
Let those who wish to tell their story do so and let's not get hung up on the game mechanics when it come sto backgrounds... whadda ya say?
For example, I was born in Scotland, I have lived in Ireland for 20 years... am I Irish?
Well, if you use Irish benefits you are 'from Ireland' :P
A PC who has Thayan background is 'from Thay' , regardless of whether he was born in Rashemen'.
There are a few elements of regional backgrounds (benefits aside) that would, in a 'normal' - that is, home brewn - roleplaying game, factor in the game. That is what background are, originally, for: to add hooks for your PC which the player and DM can use to enrich the roleplaying elements.
Of course, in LFR, this works less well since most DMs - or players - are hardly aware of a PC's background.
Players who take Thay benefits may not know who Szass Tamm is, or that the country is overrun with undead, or that Thayan's are treated with suspicion in Aglarond, especially if they use the character builder which doesn't list this. I have seen it several times before. It is not a problem a such, but it can get a bit awkward when knwoeldge of the regions becomes a factor in a story.
Anyway, working with PC backgrounds to enrich play may not always be viable, since either a DM or a player may simply not know enough of the situation. That is, imo, a pity, but it's a limitation of the campaign model that we need to accept.
Gomez
Well, if you use Irish benefits you are 'from Ireland' :P
A PC who has Thayan background is 'from Thay' , regardless of whether he was born in Rashemen'.
There are a few elements of regional backgrounds (benefits aside) that would, in a 'normal' - that is, home brewn - roleplaying game, factor in the game. That is what background are, originally, for: to add hooks for your PC which the player and DM can use to enrich the roleplaying elements.
Of course, in LFR, this works less well since most DMs - or players - are hardly aware of a PC's background.
Players who take Thay benefits may not know who Szass Tamm is, or that the country is overrun with undead, or that Thayan's are treated with suspicion in Aglarond, especially if they use the character builder which doesn't list this. I have seen it several times before. It is not a problem a such, but it can get a bit awkward when knwoeldge of the regions becomes a factor in a story.
Anyway, working with PC backgrounds to enrich play may not always be viable, since either a DM or a player may simply not know enough of the situation. That is, imo, a pity, but it's a limitation of the campaign model that we need to accept.
Gomez
I beg to differ... naturalised does not mean from... one can be a citizen of a country, but that does not necessarily mean one was born there.
You will forever be "from", wherever you were born.
Ex-patriot communities are commonplace and Forgotten Realms is no different.
In fact, just last night I played a module in Baldur's Gate that contained a reference to place called "Little Calimshan"... a community of ex-pats from Calimshan, celebrating a Calimshite festival.
Perhaps a character could come from "Little Calimshan"?
That place is a prime candidate for a Baldur's Gate regional background and a Desert (or similar) secondary background... or perhaps a Calimshan regional and city (or similar) secondary background. Just add fluff and you have an interesting backstory.
I understand that some may not have a fully fleshed out back story for their character... but does that mean they can dictate that nobody else at their table can?
I understand that some may not have a fully fleshed out back story for their character... but does that mean they can dictate that nobody else at their table can?
Yes, yes it does. From now on, yu personally are no longer allowed to have a fully fleshed out background for your characters.
Ha!
;)
You will forever be "from", wherever you were born.
Well, if you have the benefits of a regional background, it is not unreasonable to expect people to assume that you are 'from' that region.
You could, of course, believe yourself not to be, but others likely will think you are 'from Baldur's Gate' even if you believe yourself to be a Calimshite (rightfully or not).
Gomez
Others might not want an involved background, they might take a regional benefit just for the mechanics. It is generally these players who espouse the "your background says Thay, you're a Thayan" idea. This is wrong!
For example, I was born in Scotland, I have lived in Ireland for 20 years... am I Irish?
I don't know; which background do you receive mechanical benefits from?
The regional background system essentially institutionalizes stereotypes. There is a sense in which someone "from Akanul" is physically and literally different from someone in a nearby country, passing through or residing there but really from somewhere else.
If a player decides that his character is sufficiently "from Thay" that he is mechanically different from those who aren't from Thay, then he might not be ethnically, culturally or politically identical to others in his region, but he is sufficiently Thayan that observers would consider him such.
I would consider "I'm taking the Thay regional background because I like mechanics but I'm not really a Thayan" to make as much sense as "I'm taking the gnome race because I like the mechanics but I'm really a goliath".
A character is certainly free to espouse either view, but the rules tell him that he's objectively wrong.
Now, one of my PCs (a Drow Storm Sorcerer) has the Calimshan background. She was born in a Drow city, but her mother smuggled her out to the surface when she was young. So she grew up in Calimshan. Hence the Calimshan benefit.
Some PCs may have spent their formative years in the place they were born. Neither view is wrong.
I view the region (and even the other backgrounds) to be more of what region influenced you the most in your formative years.
That's what what bgibbons and I were saying. You are formed to ther egiony ou choose as a background. It does not really matter where you live *now*, but that region determines what defines you, and most likely what others perceive you to be.
You're so smart that it makes you tougher? You must be Thayan, even though you look like a dragonborn from Tymanther. You are resistant against elemental energy? You must be from Akanul, even though you were born as a dwarf in East Rift and now live in Westgate.
Certain backgrounds also give benefits or penalties. Being from the Dalelands gives you benefits - even minor ones - in Dalelands adventures. Whether you were born in the region or not, that does define you as Dalesfolk.
Gomez
That's what what bgibbons and I were saying. You are formed to ther egiony ou choose as a background. It does not really matter where you live *now*, but that region determines what defines you, and most likely what others perceive you to be.
You're so smart that it makes you tougher? You must be Thayan, even though you look like a dragonborn from Tymanther. You are resistant against elemental energy? You must be from Akanul, even though you were born as a dwarf in East Rift and now live in Westgate.
Certain backgrounds also give benefits or penalties. Being from the Dalelands gives you benefits - even minor ones - in Dalelands adventures. Whether you were born in the region or not, that does define you as Dalesfolk.
Gomez
This is exactly my point.
A character chooses their regional background... they can also choose a PHB2 background... they can also claim to be from anywhere!
This may or may not be true and other players are under no obligation to believe them... this does not invalidate the characters background or backstory!
Here is an example:
Tiefling: Hi all I'm Melek from Sigil
Elf: I don't know... your accent sounds like your from Thay...
Tielfling: I spent some time in Thay, that's were I was summoned...
Elf: So you're a Thayan then.
Tielfing: No... I'm from Sigil.
Elf: No... I think you're from Thay.
Tiefling: If you want... I can't provide any proof you would accept... so let's just get on with things.
Back stories stay in tact and other than an annoying conversation and probably the Elf player being a douche and continutally saying the Tiefling is a Thayan the game continues.
Tiefling: Hi all I'm Melek from Sigil
Elf: I don't know... your accent sounds like your from Thay...
Tielfling: I spent some time in Thay, that's were I was summoned...
Elf: So you're a Thayan then.
Tielfing: No... I'm from Sigil.
If the tiefling has the benefit of the Thay regional background, then the player has made a decision that, in some sense, his time in Thay has affected him sufficiently that, physically and objectively, he shares a distinct similarity with other residents of Thay, and is in a real sense different from people who are not from Thay.
You can quibble about whether the name "Thayan" applies, but the game reality is that choosing a regional background benefit means that in a real in-game sense, the PC shares a certain similarity with others from that area and is objectively different than if he had not come from that area.
That's not an intrinsic or necessary part of a backstory. A player is free to say that the PC was "Born on Another Plane" and that, while he happened to land in Thay first, that had no real impact on him.
However, if the player chooses to say that the PC was so affected by his time in Thay that he shares certain distinct similarities with other people from Thay, then he gains certain benefits from that choice, and may very well suffer certain penalties.
In the same way that I'd have no problem with other PCs using Perception to determine the real race of a PC saying, "I'm taking the goliath race for its mechanical benefits but I'm really a gnome", I'd probably allow other PCs to use Streetwise (or perhaps Nature) to determine a PC's regional origin.
You don't get to pick and choose; it's all or nothing. If you have decided that a PC's time in Cormyr (however brief) left enough of a stamp on him that he gains a +2 bonus vs. fear saving throws, it left enough of a stamp on him that it would not be unreasonable for others to consider him Cormyrean.