http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1177422
Funny... i seem to recall there being a FAQ stickied on the main LFR forum also that might have an answer to this... hmmm...
Can't be.
You're imagining things.
-karma
Funny... i seem to recall there being a FAQ stickied on the main LFR forum also that might have an answer to this... hmmm...
Ok, so a follow up that's a bit more specific...
Will there be any way for a Dwarven Warlock (or even a Tiefling Warlock like the one the card comes with) to take this alternative at-will power? You can't retrain to it currently, as the "Eldritch Blast + Pact At-Will" is a class feature.
Or is does this at-will effectively have a "preq: Human Warlock, or Half-Elf non-Warlock" line?
Will there be any way for a Tiefling Warlock like the one the card comes with to take this alternative at-will power? You can't retrain to it currently, as the "Eldritch Blast + Pact At-Will" is a class feature.
Or is does this at-will effectively have a "preq: Human Warlock, or Half-Elf non-Warlock" line?
My understanding is that, by the rules as they currently stand, your second paragraph is essentially accurate.
The rules haven't changed on how they get their powers. So only a Human or non-Warlock Half-Elf could take it from level 1. However, remember that your Tiefling can always retrain into it.
You can't retrain class features. PHB, page 28, second column, 2nd paragraph.
You can’t replace a power that’s a class feature (such as a cleric’s healing word or a warlock’s eldritch blast) or a power gained from a paragon path or an epic destiny.
As a side note, I always thought it was strange that they called out Eldritch Blast in that sentence. If you look at the entry for Healing Word (the other example) it says in the power block: "Cleric Feature." Eldritch Blast says "Warlock (All) Attack 1" not "Warlock Feature." So according to the power block, it isn't a class feature. However, since they specifically call it out in that sentence, it's a little hard to lawyer it.
You have more than one at-will.
But the other at-will is given/assigned by the same class feature. So it's hard to imagine that one is immutable, but the other is not.
But the other at-will is given/assigned by the same class feature. So it's hard to imagine that one is immutable, but the other is not.
Well, I guess I could start up the "Warlock's have 4 at-wills" rules lawyer train... But that's rather obviously anti-social.
Idiotic Rules Lawyering
The Blast class feature says I "Gain" the power. The Pact feature "grants" me another power. So obviously I still get to choose two powers. And now the human Warlock has his 5th power to take...
The Blast class feature says I "Gain" the power. The Pact feature "grants" me another power. So obviously I still get to choose two powers. And now the human Warlock has his 5th power to take...
Class Features: When you would normally make a
retrain choice, you can instead choose to take a class
feature retrain. When you retrain for a new class feature
(and only for a class feature), you are able to retrain up to 2
powers and 2 feats with the class feature retrain. Each
character is only allowed one class feature retrain. If you
choose to retrain in this manner, make a note of it on your
adventure log.
So you can retrain a class feature, and you get to retrain 2 powers and 2 feats with it.
BUT, you can only do it once.
So you can retrain a class feature, and you get to retrain 2 powers and 2 feats with it.
BUT, you can only do it once.
Ok. Now that's interesting. But I'm not sure which class feature I'd retrain here. I don't have a different class feature to retrain for Eldritch Blast, and if I retrain my pact, I still have to take the Pact-based at-will power.
But that's a solid approach to use to talk a DM into allowing what they already want to allow. ("It's my once/character class feature retrain. Eldritch Blast class feature to an implicit Eldritch Strike class feature. kthx.)
But the other at-will is given/assigned by the same class feature. So it's hard to imagine that one is immutable, but the other is not.
If you look at it lawyerly:
Under Class Features for the Warlock Eldritch Blast has it's own heading. The other at-wills do not. The various Pacts are listed, and within those it says that you start with a specific at-will... that at-will is not a class feature in and of itself, merely a power auto assigned based on your pact. I also point back to the power block where it says Warlock Attack 1, not Warlock Feature. So it's easy to say you aren't retraining a class feature.
Just so you know, I know this can be looked at either way. I'm giving yu the relative argument in allowance of it.
Ok. Now that's interesting. But I'm not sure which class feature I'd retrain here. I don't have a different class feature to retrain for Eldritch Blast, and if I retrain my pact, I still have to take the Pact-based at-will power.
The only issue I foresee with this is: the intent of that rule in the CCG was to allow players to change Features to a new one in a new splatbook. For example, changing from a 2-H Weapon Fighter to a Battlerager. Or from an archery Ranger to a Beastmaster Ranger. Etc. One could argue that since there isn't an alternative class feature to Eldritch Blast, you can't retrain it. Then again, I've already pointed out that none of the Warlock At-Wills are listed as "Warlock feature." So, yeah, warlocks are kind of screwed up in this regard.
If you look at it lawyerly:
And really, that's the problem here. I don't want to bring a character to a game only to find a DM that decides it's illegal, and won't let me play. In a home game, this isn't an issue. But in LFR, it is.
And I don't see a rock solid reasoning to allow me to use the power. Which means I can't count on it, and really means I can't use it.
But you can retrain a class feature. The new 1.8 CCG top of page 2. Under "Don’t Forget to Retrain!" under, Class Features is this:
Class Features: When you would normally make a
retrain choice, you can instead choose to take a class
feature retrain. When you retrain for a new class feature
(and only for a class feature), you are able to retrain up to 2
powers and 2 feats with the class feature retrain. Each
character is only allowed one class feature retrain. If you
choose to retrain in this manner, make a note of it on your
adventure log.
So you can retrain a class feature, and you get to retrain 2 powers and 2 feats with it.
BUT, you can only do it once.
Isn't this special class feature retrain is only for people who started with a preview/playtest class?
Isn't this special class feature retrain is only for people who started with a preview/playtest class?
No. They are separate paragraphs under retraining. I think the basic idea is
If you started a preview/playtest class, you have to rebuild using the correct rules. Basically, you get to do a full rebuild.
If you started with a basic class but now there's a perfect class feature for you (Dwarven Hammer Fighters, I'm looking at you) that wasn't there when you created your character, the once/character class feature retrain is there to allow you to take advantage of it. If I wanted my Hexhammer to switch to Vestige Pact (I don't, but if), it would allow me to do that.
Neither option is really available for my case. But given that RAI for the new card seems pretty clear (could replace Eldritch Blast), I'd guess most DMs would allow it as my once/character retrain. And if not, I'll just have to keep strength high.
Isn't this special class feature retrain is only for people who started with a preview/playtest class?
No, as Kilpatds pointed out, it's a sperate entry in the retrain callout. that rule was added in response to people complaining that, for example, had the Battlerager class feature been available when they started their fighter they would have taken it.
So anyone can do it. as I previously mentioned though... there isn't any other class feature to retrain Eldritch Blast into. Eldritch Strike (or whatever it's called) isn't a class feature so you couldn't techically retrain Eldritch Blast into it from that perspective. I'm still of the mind that the Pact specific At-Will you get can be retrained. Otherwise, Warlocks are kind of stuck with the short end of the stick.
Warlocks are kind of stuck with the short end of the stick.
Which is why their implements are rods and wands, but not the staff! :D
Which is why their implements are rods and wands, but not the staff! :D
:heehee
Good one.
