For example, could I choose warforged as my race, but in-character I'm actually a magically-animated totem (good for a warforged barbarian)?
Could I choose infernal for a warlock pact, but in-character I actually made a pact with an Efreet?
Could I play a Bladeling (assuming I have the promo card), but in-character not be the typical Bladeling created by Bane, but instead a humanoid porcupine kind of creature (perhaps created by the spell plague or some other wild magic?)
Etc, etc, etc!
Please keep posts on topic and relevant.
Thank you
Warforged as a magically-animated totem? Just fine. There's no standard background for warforged in the Realms, anyway.
Infernal Pact coming from an efreet? Maybe a little sketchy to some people, as you're distinctly changing the background of a standard rules item.
Bladeling as some sort of other creature? To me, same as #2.
A background story such as the warforged being an animated totem is fairly common in my experience, and even expected in many cases.
The infernal pact and the spell plagued porcupine Bladeling are much more likely to be questioned, and seems like something that may raise a DMs eyebrow, but I'm not so sure it really violates any rule without researching it some.
Hey, as long as the mechanics stay the same, how far can one push "fluff" in LFR?
What other PCs and NPCs perceive has to match what is found in the rules. Your PC can give any explanation they want, and other PCs and NPCs may believe or disbelieve them, as they choose.
If your PC is a bladeling, then as far as the world is concerned, they're a bladeling. They look like a bladeling, magical effects that trigger on bladelings go off and NPCs who make the appropriate knowledge checks identify you as a bladeling.
You are, however, free to explain that you're really an awakened humanoid porcupine, the recipient of a strange extraplanar effect, under a curse or actually a very small halfling inside of a bladeling suit.
(Or, to put it another way: you can't say that your tiefling doesn't have horns; you can, however, say whatever you'd like about why he has horns.)
It will vary from table to table (as well as based on how far-fetched your claim is) whether your DM treats this as merely backstory or your PC being delusional.
Generally speaking, the more your fluff is simply backstory without present-day impact, the more accepted it will be; the more you are attempting to meaningfully differentiate yourself from what the rules say are true, the less accepted it will be. (Being a tiefling who claims to be a human under a demonic curse is fine if the primary way that impacts the game is as motivation for your PC; being a tiefling who claims to be a human under a demonic curse becomes less acceptable if you try to use that to say that someone or something in the game should treat you differently from other tieflings because of it.)
Don't play a character like this if you can't (or don't want to) deal with table variation.
-- Brian Gibbons.
Most of this issue is hashed out there. The following I consider to be pretty standard for this sort of stuff:
1. If your PC remains identifiable as a member of it's mechanical race than it's ok (as in, your totem warrior is clearly a warforged)
2. Your changes don't require an infinite bluff score: (i.e: I am really a dwarf, not a dragonborn)
3. You understand that some people may not be ok with it (There are sticklers that argue that all infernal pact warlocks have to have made a deal with a devil)
4. You don't interfere with Forgotten Realms lore on the race, at least in terms of origins - individual beliefs and morality of course varies- (your Bladeling character may violate this one)
Read this thread here.
Most of this issue is hashed out there. The following I consider to be pretty standard for this sort of stuff:
1. If your PC remains identifiable as a member of it's mechanical race than it's ok (as in, your totem warrior is clearly a warforged)
2. Your changes don't require an infinite bluff score: (i.e: I am really a dwarf, not a dragonborn)
3. You understand that some people may not be ok with it (There are sticklers that argue that all infernal pact warlocks have to have made a deal with a devil)
4. You don't interfere with Forgotten Realms lore on the race, at least in terms of origins - individual beliefs and morality of course varies- (your Bladeling character may violate this one)
Define "clearly a warforged"? Warforged don't even have a standard realms explanation. I am a humanoid, living, sentient construct, but I don't look like an Eberron Warforged at all. (Ok, well, obviously there is the similarity of being a walking stone dude.) Here, maybe an illustration will help....
Is that "clearly a warforged" enough?
(Forgive the cheesiness, but I obviously put this together pretty quick in photoshop)
If, in time they are actually incorporated in FR lore, than one may have to adjust said background to accommodate that...
The most important thing to ask is: Can I play a Warforged in LFR?
Dude... you need to illustrate my PCs. :D
The most important thing to ask is: Can I play a Warforged in LFR?
..and... you just lost any credibility to me.
Dude, that question has been beaten into the ground, as yes, we can.
Dude... you need to illustrate my PCs. :D
I can't take much credit on that. I googled warforged and found a nice drawing of a warforged barbarian, and then I googled aztec art and stuck an idol's head on is shoulders and messed with values and the wand and stuff a little bit to make it mesh a bit better.
..and... you just lost any credibility to me.
Dude, that question has been beaten into the ground, as yes, we can.
!!!
You do realise that is a joke right?
Ask Dragon9, he loves hearing that question...
(Metz doesn't have any credibility any ways)
!!!
You do realise that is a joke right?
Ask Dragon9, he loves hearing that question...
(Metz doesn't have any credibility any ways)
Wait, my Metz is credibility specced, are you saying it isn't legal for LFR!
However, consider this a friendly nudge back on-topic. ;)
(Or, to put it another way: you can't say that your tiefling doesn't have horns; you can, however, say whatever you'd like about why he has horns.)
You say my tiefling isn't allowed to not have horns...I say that sounds like a challenge, hand me a saw!
(Or, to put it another way: you can't say that your tiefling doesn't have horns; you can, however, say whatever you'd like about why he has horns.)
So, a human can be born without ears, but no tiefling is ever born without horns?
She is quite clearly a thiefling though (despite the fact that she conciders herself a devil), and few people object to the small adjustments in appearance.
So it is possible to deviate in descrpitions.
Gomez
My thiefling has horns. they are just not the big ram horns you see in the pictures. they are, in fact, cutesy little horns, that pop out under her blonde volumous hair. And her tail is not this enormous crocodile like piece of meat, but slender and graceful, with a little arrow-like tip.
She is quite clearly a thiefling though (despite the fact that she conciders herself a devil), and few people object to the small adjustments in appearance.
So it is possible to deviate in descrpitions.
Gomez
There are LFR DMs that would object to it, from what I'm hearing here... /shrug
Deliberately disguising oneself to pass as something else should involve a skill (likely Bluff) opposed by a passive skill check if unsuspecting (the PH says Insight, but that was reading behavior, and a physical disguise might be better opposed by passive perception).
Keith
Actually, a simple test should be applied by player and DM. If the character is recognizable as (whether tiefling, warforged, etc.), regardless of color, horns, etc., then the description is fine. It is just flavor text for the character. If the player insists NPCs or monsters won't recognize their PC as (whether tiefling, warforged, etc.) because of lack of horns, color, etc., and would therefore react differently, then there is a potential problem.
Deliberately disguising oneself to pass as something else should involve a skill (likely Bluff) opposed by a passive skill check if unsuspecting (the PH says Insight, but that was reading behavior, and a physical disguise might be better opposed by passive perception).
Keith
But what about a human who was terribly burned as a child and now is disfigured by burn scars? People would likely be unable to tell if the character was a human, or elf, or other similar humanoid.
But what about a human who was terribly burned as a child and now is disfigured by burn scars? People would likely be unable to tell if the character was a human, or elf, or other similar humanoid.
That is fine, but it is still identifiable as a human, distinctions are more than just ears, fantasy pictures aside.
Moreover, it is one thing to be a disfigured tiefling, or an abnormal one, it is another to use tiefling stats for a human and claiming that said tiefling was born different...
There is a subtle but important distinction.
That is fine, but it is still identifiable as a human, distinctions are more than just ears, fantasy pictures aside.
I think you are underestimating how disfiguring burn scars can be.
I think you are underestimating how disfiguring burn scars can be.
I think the point is that, disfiguring scars or no, you've also got other physical features (general build, eyes, etc.), as well as mannerisms that will likely identify you as a race.
Really, it comes down to what Keith described...if you want to look like an atypical (but still identifiable) member of your race, it shouldn't be an issue. If you want the character's looks to be so out of the ordinary that observers will not be able to tell what race you are (or, as we've seen in other threads) completely mistake your (mechanical) race for a different race...that's where you're going beyond mere fluff.
I think you are underestimating how disfiguring burn scars can be.
I think you are being pedantic for no other purpose than to be a nuisance.
-SYB
1. I want attention more than my share of attention from the table
2. I want a mechanical advantage
3. I want to differentiate my character in a roleplay way that allows me to make it more unique from a character that may have chosen the exact same items/feats/skills
I'm always going to be ok with #3 as long as we don't stray into #1 or #2 at all.
For example, when my warforged uses Warforged Resolve, little spiders erupt from his body and spin a chitinous cocoon around parts of his body. Mechanically identical, slightly cool, and in no way needy.
Peanut Butter & Fluff
S'mores
Ice Cream topping
Pies
Cookies
Brownies
Pudding
Cakes
there are other applications but I'll leave those up to the imagination. :evillaugh
I think you are being pedantic for no other purpose than to be a nuisance.
-SYB
I was thinking of it more as being a devil's advocate. I don't think I'm overly concerned with minor details, I just think some of the "guidelines" given by some for what is ok and or what isn't ok to roleplay are a little too general, and I feel that some of these arguments are a little too one-sided.
Don't get me wrong, I think there should be limitations on rp/fluff. I can see why saying you look like a member of another established race w/o a using a disguise can be a problem in the RPGA. Also, an issue I'm surprised I haven't seen brought up here is what we used to refer as "godmodding" in an old MUD I played. i.e. "My earth genasi is actually the unfinished clone of an earth primordial." or "I'm Elminster's / Drizzt's / etc.'s son" usually followed by "What's wrong? None of my stats actually changed."
But I think it's a good discussion to really think about what is ok and what's not for this stuff.
It is both one of the flaws and strengths of a large shared game experience. There must be uniformity in standards, otherwise it will not work.
Exceptional burns are an irrelevant view, that is sophistry, you would be recognisable as a horribly burnt human.
If you were trying to use it to justify looking like another race/not human, than you are going against the intent of 'race' as a game mechanic.
That is perfectly acceptable in a home game, but causes all sorts of issues in a Living campaign...
And I can't beleive I have got myself caught up in another one of these threads. I'm out. Read the link I posted for some insight into this issue.
You'd get all the negatives of being so, though. People would be uncomfortable around you, small children might cry and shy away at your approach, you'd probably get a penalty to social encounters. Particularly insensitive individuals might treat you with outright hostility or disgust.
In short, you might not get recognized as your race, but you will likely find the penalties will outweigh any benefits you might get from disguising what you are.
And stuff that triggers off your actual race will likely still trigger, unless it's purely visual trigger. However, again, see above for the drawbacks.
-karma
Personally, if you presented yourself as a "horribly burnt humanoid" at my tables, sure, I'd play ball.
You'd get all the negatives of being so, though. People would be uncomfortable around you, small children might cry and shy away at your approach, you'd probably get a penalty to social encounters. Particularly insensitive individuals might treat you with outright hostility or disgust.
In short, you might not get recognized as your race, but you will likely find the penalties will outweigh any benefits you might get from disguising what you are.
And stuff that triggers off your actual race will likely still trigger, unless it's purely visual trigger. However, again, see above for the drawbacks.
-karma
And as you should! I never said one should get any benefits out of being badly burnt.
And... can i play a warforged in LFR?
This is all well and good... but what if I wanted to play a warforged who was an Orc?
And... can i play a warforged in LFR?
The beatings will now begin!
:D
This is all well and good... but what if I wanted to play a warforged who was an Orc?
And... can i play a warforged in LFR?
Now really Dragon? Are you trying to un-earn your forum guide title?
-SYB
:D I try to inject a little humor when I can.
very little.
Hey!
Can I play Kenny in LFR? I wanna die in every module, and still retire at Epic. With no gold at all.
Sure! With the Death and resurrection rules of LFR you can! It might take longer. Perfect for those people who feel they're leveling to fast and don't have enough time to play their PC!
But they're already complaining about my 4th level character "not pulling his weight" since he doesn't have any magic items at all, and he's running out of sling bullets already.
Even in a shared campaign where you might end up with random strangers, I've found that I play with people I know most of the time.