So, if you have a cleric of 11th level or higher in LFR play, what paragon path did you choose?
If you don't have one at paragon level yet, but have a paragon path planned, which one is it?
Thanks!
I've been discussing clerics in LFR with some folks, and we got on the subject of "which paragon paths do you see clerics taking most often in your local LFR group?". After asking around in my area, I decided to post here and see what others have chosen (and if you wish to explain, why you chose that particular PP).
So, if you have a cleric of 11th level or higher in LFR play, what paragon path did you choose?
If you don't have one at paragon level yet, but have a paragon path planned, which one is it?
Thanks!
I plan to take Battle Chaplain, since my cleric is Str-based and not a dwarf. It's a mixed bag -- Shielded Priest and Stirring Action are good for me, particularly since the former will save me two feats. Revelation of Battle is perfectly acceptable. Deny Defeat is handy since I don't have as much healing as a Wisdom-based cleric. I do wish I had more options.
I also have a STR Cleric who will become a "Dragon Coast" Corsair. He's a scurvy sea dog from the Chang Emporium.
I've been discussing clerics in LFR with some folks, and we got on the subject of "which paragon paths do you see clerics taking most often in your local LFR group?". After asking around in my area, I decided to post here and see what others have chosen (and if you wish to explain, why you chose that particular PP).
So, if you have a cleric of 11th level or higher in LFR play, what paragon path did you choose?
If you don't have one at paragon level yet, but have a paragon path planned, which one is it?
Thanks!
Divine Oracle (it isn't just for Wizards anymore
)Warforged Lifeseeker
His high stats are WIS & INT, so he is very good with his class skills and rituals, unlike normal clerics who suck at Arcana and have to take Religion even though INT is their dump stat.
Since bloodmages damage themselves with their class feature, the extra HP, healing surge, and (of course) healing powers from being a cleric are all especially useful.
Bloodmages also have a cool Second Wind power, which my dwarf PC can use without wasting a turn on it. However, dwarves don't get an INT boost, so they don't make the best single-class wizards, but do make great devoted clerics.
That said, I was a Student of Caiphon until recently. Swapped over to Morninglord (though I haven't gotten to play since converting).
I find it amusing that you think there are enough clerics in LFR to get a good feel for something like this ;)
That said, I was a Student of Caiphon until recently. Swapped over to Morninglord (though I haven't gotten to play since converting).
Hmmm..why would you find that amusing? Are clerics that scarce in your area?
We have seven clerics in our local LFR group, and there's almost always a cleric at any given table (though we also have some shamans, warlords and one incredibly annoying bard).
She "complete retrained" when she hit Level 14 into a Radiant Servant. She's loving it.
Hmmm..why would you find that amusing? Are clerics that scarce in your area?
We have seven clerics in our local LFR group, and there's almost always a cleric at any given table (though we also have some shamans, warlords and one incredibly annoying bard).
Consider yourself lucky, then. I rarely see clerics that I'm not playing
I'm not sure why -- they are plenty fun and when dice go sour, your team will appreciate you keeping them off the floor bleeding out. I'm definitely looking forward to laying down that radiant vulnerability.My wife played a Miracle Worker through Level 13. Too much healing = boring for her.
She "complete retrained" when she hit Level 14 into a Radiant Servant. She's loving it.
Hey - that's me!
Yes, my cleric (a plump, grandmotherly elf) is an uber-healing laser cleric so Miracle Worker seemed like a very fitting paragon path. That was until I played her for a while and realized that (at least in LFR) Miracle Worker gave me way too much healing. I frequently looked at my character at the end of combat or the end of the day to realize that I hadn't used many of my encounter/daily powers because no one really needed the healing. And my turns were often boring and frustrating: "Huh, this power is useless, no one needs me to use this one yet, don't need this one... Hey, is anyone hurt? Are you all sure that you're ok? No? No one? Darn." I just switched to Radiant Servant and am absolutely loving it. I had dumped a ton of feats/items into making my Turn Undead as effective as possible (demonbane, devilbane, dragonbane, swift turning, symbol of foe turning, ring of the zealous) and demon/devil/dragonbane work nicely with Solar Wrath as well. An enemies-only close burst 8 that stuns a bunch of different types of enemies is awesome. Even without the stunning - an enemies-only close burst 8 (and crit on 19-20) encounter power is great. My first turn is frequently - get into position (move action), Solar Wrath (standard action), Turn Undead (minor action), and watch them weep (free action). I haven't had a chance to try using Healing Sun yet (the sustain standard is a bit of a pain), but it seems like it could be pretty useful (and can always be used at the end of a combat to heal people back up).
Miracle Worker - Word of Life (d8s for Healing Word) seems great, but most of the time I was over-healing people with my Healing Word anyway. Healing Action (at least in my experience) is essentially useless. It's very restrictive about when you can use it (and rarely will actually be helpful) - you have to use your action point to do a divine healing power (which aren't all Standard Actions... I don't want to spend an action point to do a minor action), allies have to be standing adjacent to you (which is rare in paragon mods when you want to spread out to avoid area attacks), your allies have to actually still be hurt after the required healing power, and it doesn't heal all that much anyway. During the 3 levels I played the character as a Miracle Worker I think I only successfully used Healing Action once, and the ally didn't really need the healing anyway. Definitely a disappointment (especially compared to other paragon path action point features). I didn't play a 16th level Miracle Worker, but I doubt the Aura of Health (extra healing for allies that Second Wind) would have been all that helpful unless maybe you were travelling with a bunch of dwarves. (But even then, there's already plenty of healing going around.) I found I rarely used the Reversal of Fortunes encounter power because I wanted to wait until my ally needed to spend a healing surge..., but they rarely did. Miraculous Grace is awesome (in theory) but I found that I never used it because no one under my uber-healer's care ever dropped to 0 HP. The one time it almost could have been useful was when I had an ally go straight from positive HP to below negative bloodied (dead) in one swing (during the first round of combat, before I got a turn), but since it's a reaction I couldn't use it then either. Miracle Worker might be a good boost to a cleric that isn't healing focused, but for a healing cleric it's just way too much healing. I have another friend who was playing a similar cleric build and was a Miracle Worker. After 3 levels she also decided to switch paragon paths (but hasn't decided on a new one yet).
Just my 3 coppers.
I'm planning to take either Divine Oracle (to continue with my 'utility' style of play, with all of the cool benefits DO gives) or Messenger of Peace (because the powers/features perectly match my neutralizing build theme thus far).
My other cleric is a Radiant Servant, but I rarely play him anymore, he feels like a striker (lol).
-SYB
Am I missing something? I have seen two posts reference changing paragon paths. I know retraining rules are less stringent, but I thought paragon paths were still set in stone.
-SYB
Paragon paths aren't your class.
Am I missing something? I have seen two posts reference changing paragon paths. I know retraining rules are less stringent, but I thought paragon paths were still set in stone.
-SYB
The current CCG says you can retrain everything except for race and base class every time you level. This includes class features (whereas before there was a one time only class feature retrain), ablility scores, and yes, paragon path.
Am I missing something? I have seen two posts reference changing paragon paths. I know retraining rules are less stringent, but I thought paragon paths were still set in stone.
-SYB
The current CCG says you can retrain everything except for race and base class every time you level. This includes class features (whereas before there was a one time only class feature retrain), ablility scores, and yes, paragon path.
Exactly, so at level 4 you could be Sir Stabalot, a half-orc two weapon ranger /avenger/fighter with 18 strength, and then at level 5, you could go "but I don't wannnnna be two-weapon ranger anymorrrrrrre" and change the "same" character into Robend Wud, an 18 dexterity archer ranger /assassin/seeker with an entirely different set of powers and feats.
It appears that Strength clerics are effectively hosed in the PP department.
My wife's Dragonborn Cleric will probably be taking Scion of Arkhosia.
--Penn
Strength Clerics are in fact pretty screwed when it comes to PP choices. Divine Oracle is always reasonable but you mostly sacrifice your L20 daily if your Wis isn't strong. For Str Clerics with reasonable Wis, Warpriest is competitive with Battle Chaplain for a character who wants to minor defender (or without the Wis, you can Reserve Maneuver and sac the L20). For Str/Cha Clerics, Angelic Avenger is nice but you'll be paying a feat tax to Reserve Maneuver away the encounter power. Kensei, Pit Fighter, and Knight Commander are probably the best multi-class options. Pretty slim pickings regardless. A friend who I recently discussed all of this with decided to take his Str Cleric in the Pit Fighter direction.
t~
He's now level 12.
That plan has never changed.
Angelic Avenger: 1
Battle Chaplain: 1
Bloodmage: 1
Compassionate Healer: 1
Divine Oracle: 2.5
Messenger of Peace: 1.5
Miracle Worker: 0.5
Morninglord: 4
Pit Fighter: 1
Radiant Servant: 2
Scion of Arkhosia: 1
Seldarine Dedicate: 1
Soul Forged 1
Stonekeeper: 1
Student of Caiphon 0.5
Sword Coast Corsair: 1
Warforged Lifeseeker: 1
Warpriest: 1
Total: 23
* People who retrained from X to Y were counted as 0.5X and 0.5Y.
I'm quite surprised that out of 23 Clerics there are 18 different PP's in use. It's excellent to have such a variety.
All you Morninglords are unimaginative though.
Exactly, so at level 4 you could be Sir Stabalot, a half-orc two weapon ranger /avenger/fighter with 18 strength, and then at level 5, you could go "but I don't wannnnna be two-weapon ranger anymorrrrrrre" and change the "same" character into Robend Wud, an 18 dexterity archer ranger /assassin/seeker with an entirely different set of powers and feats.
The limitation on this is gear. Armor/weapons/etc you would want as a two-weapon guy don't always translate to gear you would want as an archer (with minimum investment being either using up found item slots or a few Transfer Enchantments).
I changed because they took the best part of my PP out behind the woodshed, so I'm glad they opened the option up (even if it means some folks will roll a new version of themselves every level).
Totals so far:
Angelic Avenger: 1
Battle Chaplain: 1
Bloodmage: 1
Compassionate Healer: 1
Divine Oracle: 2.5
Messenger of Peace: 1.5
Miracle Worker: 0.5
Morninglord: 4
Pit Fighter: 1
Radiant Servant: 2
Scion of Arkhosia: 1
Seldarine Dedicate: 1
Stonekeeper: 1
Student of Caiphon 0.5
Sword Coast Corsair: 1
Warforged Lifeseeker: 1
Warpriest: 1
Total: 22
* People who retrained from X to Y were counted as 0.5X and 0.5Y.
I'm quite surprised that out of 22 Clerics there are 17 different PP's in use. It's excellent to have such a variety.
All you Morninglords are unimaginative though.
You left out my Soul Forged I'm working towards.
You left out my Soul Forged I'm working towards.
Sorry about that! I wasn't completely sure from your earlier comment if you were actually playing one vs. were commenting on their general coolness. I've added you in!
My original thought was Miracle Worker, but my fear now is (esp. after reading lorika's post here) that I'd be over-optimized for healing. Leaning towards Seldarine Dedicate these days.
All you Morninglords are unimaginative though.
Is it more imaginative when you're a paladin Morninglord?
My Cleric (hybrid Ranger) is planning to go Seldarine Dedicate; it's not the most powerful PP but it is solid, and it has great flavor for an archer Cleric.
Strength Clerics are in fact pretty screwed when it comes to PP choices. Divine Oracle is always reasonable but you mostly sacrifice your L20 daily if your Wis isn't strong. For Str Clerics with reasonable Wis, Warpriest is competitive with Battle Chaplain for a character who wants to minor defender (or without the Wis, you can Reserve Maneuver and sac the L20). For Str/Cha Clerics, Angelic Avenger is nice but you'll be paying a feat tax to Reserve Maneuver away the encounter power. Kensei, Pit Fighter, and Knight Commander are probably the best multi-class options. Pretty slim pickings regardless. A friend who I recently discussed all of this with decided to take his Str Cleric in the Pit Fighter direction.
t~
Just as a side note, I don't think it's really correct to look at the Angelic Avenger having to pay a feat tax. They gain a heavy blade proficiency at level 11, and it's fairly reasonable to assume that a Battle Cleric considering the path is going to use that heavy blade proficiency. This allows them to drop any heavy blade proficiency they might have had earlier in exchange for the Reserve Maneuver.
That means you do have to discount the heavy blade proficiency as a class feature when evalutating whether the paragon path is worth selection, though, since it's a zero gain feature in order to ditch the unspeakably bad encounter power. (Hint: Balanced Clerics really shouldn't be selecting the path...it's a waste without the Charisma damage to bloodied enemies aura)
If WotC ever erratas the encounter power to use Strength, Angelic Avenger will be pretty sweet instead of an option that kind of suffices.
All you Morninglords are unimaginative though.
Is it more imaginative when you're a paladin Morninglord?
Probably. Someone will have to start a "What PP did you take with your Paladin" thread, to find out for certain.
Pit Fighter here.
If there are still no cleric options when my 9th level character gets to paragon, that's what I'll be doing too.
My level 6 kalashtar pacifist healer will take Messenger of Peace.
Pit Fighter here.
If there are still no cleric options when my 9th level character gets to paragon, that's what I'll be doing too.
Nevermind.
Well, my Cleric just got nerfed, so I might change what he does for a living.
If I'm remembering previous posts correctly, your sorcerer didn't make out much better...
The overhaul to healing means that Miracle Worker, my old paragon path, isn't quite as useless anymore. Although it likely still provides an overabundance of healing for a healing-focused character.
My sorc got hit hard today as well... Everything else, barely noticed the update.
Stonekeeper here.
16th level. I like using an action point for a 5w power that crits upwards into the 160ish range. It makes my strength cleric happy.
Boss fight ended quickly.
First round: Move action. Get critter in range. Standard action: Kelemvor's Judgement. Bye-bye some minions. Free action to recharge Channel Divinity from my HS of Divinity. Action Point. Kelemvor's Judgement again. Bye-bye remaining minions. Crit rolled on Solo.
The rest of the party maneuvers to attack the solo, but does little real damage.
2nd round: Move action. Get solo in range of turn undead. Standard action to recharge Channel Divinity from my medic's weapon. Minor action to turn undead (swift turning feat taken at 11th). Crit rolled. The DM was not happy.
I removed all the minions, bloodied the solo, pushed it into the corner, and immobilized it. For the next 3 rounds, I kept throwing astral seal on it, while the defenders kept it cornered. I think I used one healing word.....