Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 TheGimper Nov 07, 2009 0:22:17	Let's say a member of your game group has a friend who is interested in D&D and wants to join your group. The problem is, all of the party members are 5th level or 7th level -- something like that. A 1st level character can't play an adventure designed for a party of 4th - 7th level characters. How do you guys handle that? Do you tell the person, "Sorry. You can't play D&D with us"? That seems counter productive. Hopefully we all want to introduce new players to the game.
#2 Samrin Nov 07, 2009 15:27:49	In LFR, you have to begin at level 1 and work your way up.
#3 chanter_hound Nov 07, 2009 16:34:12	Not true Samin.. There are rules for making a higher level character. or at least there used to be.
#4 telvin3d Nov 07, 2009 17:26:34	Yes, the RPGA CCG provides rules for creating higher level characters. However, the CCG also says this is explicitly prohibited for the LFR campaign. The rules are there for specific (non LFR) events that require higher level characters like Delves or similar. As per the CCG all LFR characters must start at level 1 and work their way up. Now, in regular public play scenarios this is very rarely a problem. Game nights at stores or whatever will almost always have multiple tables running and one of those will usually be a 1-4 table. For home games and group of friend type games is can occasionally be more of a issue but there are ways of working around it or even making it an asset. For example, if one person has been doing most of the DMing so far, which isn't unusual for private groups, someone looking to try the game once or twice can be an excellent opportunity to have someone else run a 1-4 adventure. Since you started playing I'm sure new things have come out and everyone has had some new ideas they want to try. New 1-4 modules are now available. Many groups enjoy starting a new character occasionally just to try something different. And one reality of long term play is level drift within a group. People miss the occasional game or event. A character dies and has to take the death charity clause. Any number of reasons. After a while some people are pushing into the H3 or P1 while their buddies are a level or two behind. Unless you are playing as part of a public gameday where there are enough players to mix-and-match to make tables at some point you are going to hit a situation where the numbers just don't match. After a while, almost every player and group seems to develop a range of characters and play whatever is appropriate at the time. Go with it and have fun gaming with your buddy.
#5 tirianmal Nov 07, 2009 18:22:09	Not true Samin.. There are rules for making a higher level character. or at least there used to be. Hu-rk? I hope no one is thinking this. It was never true, not used to be. All LFR PCs should start at Level 1. That said, Telvin's suggestions are all good ones. Since the group has some LFR experience, it might even be a good time to get the GM duties to rotate around the group. This would alleviate some of the pressure on the single GM and would also help the new guy advance.
#6 chanter_hound Nov 07, 2009 20:58:48	Not true Samin.. There are rules for making a higher level character. or at least there used to be. Hu-rk? I hope no one is thinking this. It was never true, not used to be. All LFR PCs should start at Level 1. That said, Telvin's suggestions are all good ones. Since the group has some LFR experience, it might even be a good time to get the GM duties to rotate around the group. This would alleviate some of the pressure on the single GM and would also help the new guy advance.   Well it would be true if the CCG wasn't so confusing.. Or rather I had thought the CCG said I could make a level X character for LFR. The LFR guy at WoTC really needs to write that up better and faster. Since its like.. bleh.
#7 TheGimper Nov 07, 2009 22:26:41	In my group, we rotate the DM every session. We only meet once a month because everyone has busy schedules and that's the best we can do. So, running side adventures in order to bring one player up to speed is extremely difficult. I know that in LFR every character is supposed to start at level 1, and work their way up. However, I think the rule is unreasonable, and, if the goal of RPGA is to promote game play and introduce new people to it, is counter productive. Let's be honest, the vast majority of us started playing D&D because we knew someone who was already part of a gaming group. We didn't suddenly decide one day, "Hmm. I think I'd like to learn how to play D&D. I know. I'll go buy all of the game books, create a character, and find a group to play with." No, we had a roommate, or a family member, or a boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. who was playing, and we decided to check it out. They helped us create a character and let us sit in, and we decided we liked it. I've been part of this same gaming group for almost 20 years. Over the years, players have come and gone. We've always been able to accommodate that. But now that we're trying to run an LFR legal campaign, we run into this stupid rule that makes it almost impossible.
#8 Dragon9 Nov 07, 2009 23:42:00	I know that in LFR every character is supposed to start at level 1, and work their way up. However, I think the rule is unreasonable, and, if the goal of RPGA is to promote game play and introduce new people to it, is counter productive. Perhaps.  However, this is part of what makes a Living Campaign a Living Campaign.  Maybe your group is different, but the regular gameday group I play with the experienced players are more than happy to run a new or lower level character to accomodate newer players.  They still have plenty of opportunity to play their higher level characters. In the future we may see a new D&D Campaigns style campaign (like Legacy of the Green Regent, Mark of Heroes, and Xendrik Expeditions) with loose character creation rules and level bumps.  Those campaigns did very well with casual players.
#9 tirianmal Nov 08, 2009 8:00:59	On the flip side, -some- of the experienced players here are a bit worn out on low level play. But there's enough players all around that most folks get to play what they want. We're currently maturing the player base to the point where we can actually run level 4-7s and 7-10s regularly. I guess it depends all on the players and the location.
#10 telvin3d Nov 08, 2009 10:16:46	I know that in LFR every character is supposed to start at level 1, and work their way up. However, I think the rule is unreasonable, and, if the goal of RPGA is to promote game play and introduce new people to it, is counter productive. Yes and no. The goal of LFR is to promote game play and introduce new people, but the focus is on public play and organized game days. In those situations this is rarely, if ever, a problem. LFR also tends to work out pretty good as a small group home game but because the focus is aimed at a slightly different style of game you are occasionally going to have issues. Now if no one in your group is interested in the 'Living' part of Living Forgotten Realms and have no intention of ever playing your characters at local game days or going to conventions there is one easy solution. Simply do whatever you want. The characters won't be legal any more and won't be good for public play but if you never intend to play outside your own group it's not much of a problem. I've known more than a few groups that have spun off characters that started in LFR into homebrew games.
#11 chanter_hound Nov 08, 2009 16:46:30	I know that in LFR every character is supposed to start at level 1, and work their way up. However, I think the rule is unreasonable, and, if the goal of RPGA is to promote game play and introduce new people to it, is counter productive. Yes and no. The goal of LFR is to promote game play and introduce new people, but the focus is on public play and organized game days. In those situations this is rarely, if ever, a problem. LFR also tends to work out pretty good as a small group home game but because the focus is aimed at a slightly different style of game you are occasionally going to have issues. Now if no one in your group is interested in the 'Living' part of Living Forgotten Realms and have no intention of ever playing your characters at local game days or going to conventions there is one easy solution. Simply do whatever you want. The characters won't be legal any more and won't be good for public play but if you never intend to play outside your own group it's not much of a problem. I've known more than a few groups that have spun off characters that started in LFR into homebrew games.   Thats a really good idea there.
#12 Dragon9 Nov 08, 2009 23:37:38	Now if no one in your group is interested in the 'Living' part of Living Forgotten Realms and have no intention of ever playing your characters at local game days or going to conventions there is one easy solution. Simply do whatever you want. The characters won't be legal any more and won't be good for public play but if you never intend to play outside your own group it's not much of a problem. I've known more than a few groups that have spun off characters that started in LFR into homebrew games. QFT.  It also bears mentioning that this is not a new issue to Living Campaigns.  Although, as others have mentioned, RPGA play is primarily intended for public game days and conventions.  A smaller closed group of individuals tend to run into this problem more often.  As a matter of fact, I think everytime I hear this complaint it is coming from someone in such a group.  This by no means a judgement, but simply an insight into why this situation sometimes crops up.
#13 chanter_hound Nov 08, 2009 23:40:19	And damnit. that sure puts a big dent in my plans of future characters. WotC needs to stop putting out new books that make me want to play something new every month! Week
#14 kinevon Nov 10, 2009 23:57:57	I've been part of this same gaming group for almost 20 years. Over the years, players have come and gone. We've always been able to accommodate that. But now that we're trying to run an LFR legal campaign, we run into this stupid rule that makes it almost impossible. I have to say that, in my experience, starting anything but a simple fighter above the lowest levels in earlier editions of D&D was always a painful process. That same issue still exists, if not as pronounced, in 4th edition. "What can your 4th level Wizard do?" "I am not sure, I have never played 4th Ed. before, nor a Wizard in it, and he is starting at 4th level, with 2 At-Wills, 2 Encounter and 1 Daily power, along with all the effects of 3 feats. How come I can cast Magic Missile every round, but I miss with it?" LFR's "start at 1st level" rule is to help people both enjoy playing more, and to understand their character(s) abilities better. Which is also why the XP/leveling rules are a bit different for the Scepter Tower ADAP series....
#15 chanter_hound Nov 11, 2009 20:23:55	Cept the hillarious thing is.. That 4th level wizard leveled from level 1 to level 4 legitigimatly. You can't just fix stupid. We've got a guy right now, we just found out, who levels his own characters at home by killing a kobold. Course he only joined about two sessions ago, and now that we identified him.. well heh. Apprently he can't be bothered with learning forgotten relms or even the basics of LFR. (Not saying though, I know know everything.. but come on.. you can't just go "Oh the dieties don't do anything in normal play.. so i'm going to make up a whole new list of them, one of which gives +1 dex every odd level.") For me, My first game was a level 5 or so rogue. I quickly learned how to play my character, typically because i asked a number of questions. Didn't even have the players handbook or anything. And while the RPGA thing confused me, I've got a two people wanting me to make thier new characters for them.